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Post Number:#1  PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:25 am 
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Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Anyone have any experience with / knowledge of the isuzu C201 4 cyl diesel engine? These are industrial engines and were used by Thermoking on refrig. reefers. Apparently generate 27 hp, two speed but haven't been able to find much info.

I thinking about alternative power situations.

thx
steve a

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Post Number:#2  PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:58 am 
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Location: Karuah Valley,NSW Australia
I have a C190 in a 1981 rodeo KBD26.uses Vacumm controlled inline pump.pushrod design wih cam in block.very good long life engine.
industrial normally are speed governed inline pump..
stationery motors are normally fixed RPM,thermokings often have an idle setting speed if they are conectd to the compressor with a centrifical clutch.

they increased the capacity to 2.3 after that.i think these are C23/C230
the turbo engines in the UBS[trooper] had fixable oil problems due to heat.
bigger oil pumps and coolers fitted in service overloaded cam gears.the newer models then went overhead cam but the older type became comon as industrial for air compressors etc.

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Post Number:#3  PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:14 pm 
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Thanks for the info, I'll have to see what comes of this.

steve a

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Post Number:#4  PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:47 am 
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Location: Karuah Valley,NSW Australia
we had a few units in at work recently.the compressor [V twin cyl] was bolted directly on the rear..the engine electrically controlled rpm settings using very cheep spring loaded electric solinoids.the thermoking has parts fitted to make it look different and.

a no name brand unit was much better setup.

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Post Number:#5  PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:03 am 
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Location: Karuah Valley,NSW Australia
one in at work today 1992 build date in compressor.

made in japan,large alloy oil pan and rocker cover.exhaust outlet at the front with exhaust looped over the intake.large 240V alt with 24 volt bosch alt mounted at the bottom.fuel filter mounted on rear of cyl head.

diesel-kiki inline pump.large soliniod hooked up in reverse,the rod is looped back to the arm on the IP.pull-in to raise rpm.

second solinoid mounted to the compressor with a rod to the stop lever.
run is free,stop is energised,the stop solinoid is conected in parralel with gass pressure,water temp and oil pressure.

the unit was fitted to the front of a day old checken truck,used in reverse cyl heating mode.the frame work was home made channel section as it was originally for a building.the condensor fan was about 30 inch 240Volt
and the evaporator 24V.

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 Post subject: c-201 info
Post Number:#6  PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:55 am 
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Location: Bocas Del Toro,Panama
Howdy, back in the 70's one of my college profs built the ThermoKing streamliner for Bonneville.He KNOWS the c-201. I'll see if he's still around.
SAYLPAL in Panama


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Post Number:#7  PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:34 pm 
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Location: Illinois, USA
I built a 20 kw generator with an Isuzu C201....

Image Image Image

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Post Number:#8  PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:50 pm 
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Looks like a nice setup. Am I mistaken or is the engine coupled to the generator via a driveshaft with u-joints? Is there a clutch involved?

I was attracted to the Isuzu because of the oil pan mounting setup, and because there were a couple at a local scrap yard.

sa

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Post Number:#9  PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:13 pm 
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Yes, I did it this way because I didn't want to have to fuss with shaft alignment too much. I used the adapter plate that originally went to the freon compressor and machined it to take the little driveshaft. I will take some more detailed pics of some of the items of interest, these were just a couple I had on my computer at work. I can email them direct to you or post here if there is interest. It has shutdown switches for oil pressure and coolant temperature. The cooling fan is thermostatically controlled electric and pushes air out the front of the radiator, which is from a forklift application. The fan is from a BMW and really moves the air. I was intending to put the whole unit in an enclosure, which is why I had the air blowing out the front. The alternator is a Ford unit (escort I think). I also totally redid the crummy electrical box that comes standard on the Chinese gen head, so now it incorporates a main disconnect as well as all the engine controls and safeties. My original intent was to run it on WVO or bio, so the little black tank over the driveshaft was for diesel for starting and warmup. Then there is a fuel changeover valve and a heat exchanger to warm the "alternative" fuel. I have since fallen out of love with WVO, so never really ran it on that, and even with the twin mufflers it is too noisy (I live in town) so there it sits till I build the enclosure, got sidetracked by other projects!

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Post Number:#10  PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:14 pm 
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pbknowles wrote:
Yes, I did it this way because I didn't want to have to fuss with shaft alignment too much.

U-joints require a minimum working angle for proper operation. They don't like to run either straight or with misalignment under (it's either one or two degrees, I forget which).

There are a variety of industrial couplings that are suitable for this kind of thing. The jaw couplings are cheap and popular -- Lovejoy is one brand. There are also various elastomeric and fibre-reinforced couplings that would work well.

However, the only downside to using u-joints in a nearly-straight config is short lifespan. If the joints don't "work" one or two degrees, they don't lube and the rollers brinnell (not sure if that's the right term: dent, anyway) the hard inside surface of the caps.
Quote:
I will take some more detailed pics of some of the items of interest, these were just a couple I had on my computer at work. I can email them direct to you or post here if there is interest.

I don't want you to think I'm going to take apart all your design choices, but I'd sure like to see more. I've been hanging out in the Listeroid forum, looking at various designs, and am always keen on seeing more. That's a ST design head, right? So, 1800 RPM?
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I have since fallen out of love with WVO, so never really ran it on that . . .

:D
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. . . and even with the twin mufflers it is too noisy (I live in town)

I hear that! I bought, and shortly sold, my Hobart Titan 8 (8Kw) welder/generator this Fall: it runs at 3600 whether welding or generating, and is just too noisy for me. It, too, has dual-mufflers, and I had been planning on doing a two-into-one retrofit, when someone offered me enough cash for it as-is for me to let it go.

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1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.


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Post Number:#11  PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:43 pm 
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On the noise issue, good design is critical in minimizing noise from all sources: engine mechanical, cooling fan/air, and the exhaust. I used to work for a major construction equipment mfgr. where we installed 2-3-4 cylinder gas and diesel engines in our equipment, including water-cooled Kubotas and air-cooled Deutz.
From looking at the pictures, I'd say that the type of muffler that you are using is not going to help much--I believe that is a straight-through design with louvers around the inside diameter, much like they use on tractors.

Good exhaust design is almost an art these days (lots of sophisticated software now in use by the major auto mfgrs to get that certain sound, esp. on pickups and performance cars), but you can learn a lot by studying the exhaust system designs of super-quiet equipment, such as some of the portable trailered as well as stationary gensets, air compressors, and water pumps designed for continuous use in urban areas. Many of these units are remarkably quiet, but it's not by accident!

You'll probably want to switch to a 'tank' style of muffler that has two or more chambers inside of it, along with a fairly long exhaust pipe (experiment with various sizes and use your Radio Shack dB meter to check for differences). Take a look underneath any RV that has a genset (typically Onan) and notice the really long exhaust pipe that seemingly has no purpose (instead of exiting the muffler going directly to the side of the vehicle, it will often go inboard, bend towards the front and go a few feet, and then bend again towards the side, finally exiting at the front of the generator unit).

You also want to have the exhaust isolated from the frame of the unit, preferable bolted directly to the engine, along with the pipe supports, and have the engine rubber-isolated from the frame (same deal as in your car--ever try riding in a car with the exhaust bolted right to the frame?).

Good acoustic sound panels (fiberglass, to withstand the high heat) can be used inside the enclosure around the unit to reduce the engine mechanical noise. Unfortunately, this stuff isn't too cheap, which is why it is not used on the lower-dollar equipment out there.

When you design your enclosure, you want 2-3x as much area for fresh air inlet as you have for radiator exhaust (those blade-type fans can't develop much of a vacuum), and you want to really watch air leak paths around the radiator, where hot air can recirculate from the outside back into the cooling air path--this really cuts down cooling efficiency.

Just trying to pass on a few helpful hints that I have picked up along the way, not trying to tell you how to do it. :D

As many already know, most of the larger diesel gensets are 4-pole units which turn at 1800rpm, making them a bit quieter than the 3600rpm gas-powered screamers that we're all used to (esp. after the weather we had in Western WA last month).

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Post Number:#12  PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:10 pm 
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redmondjp wrote:
SNIP- ...I'd say that the type of muffler that you are using is not going to help much--I believe that is a straight-through design with louvers around the inside diameter, much like they use on tractors... -SNIP


Easily solved. In passenger car parlance, there are "resonators" (typically straight-thru with some sound absorbing packing, positioned AFTER a catalyst) and there are "mufflers" (found on cars predating catalytic converters). Note, those cars with catalysts that have both muffler and resonator do not have a muffler with the silencing capacity of the mufflers fitted to pre-cat cars. WHY? Because catalyst beds absorb a lot of sound in their own right and to minimize backpressure.

So get a muffler from a pre-cat luxury car and choose a small diameter outlet.

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Post Number:#13  PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:42 pm 
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Or, buy a diesel catalytic converter. That's what I plan to do.


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Post Number:#14  PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:33 am 
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Hi all, I have benn rebuilding a rotary screw air compressor for a friend and I got home too late to take any more pics yet, but I will try and address some of the comments:
U-jointed shaft: There is enough difference between the center lines of the engine and the ST (1800 rpm) generator head to keep the joints working. I really wanted a jaw type coupling, but went this way for a couple of reasons. First, I had the parts lying around ;) Second, the engine is rubber mounted on the frame and the gen head is solid mounted. I was afraid that the engine moving around on the rubber mounts plus the somewhat light weight material the frame is made of would give problems maintaining close enough shaft alignment to keep a jaw type coupling happy. The right answer is probably to solid mount the engine to the frame and put the rubber isolation between the frame and a sub-base of some kind, but here is the REAL problem with the u-jointed shaft: The rotor in the ST head is very heavy (lots of inertia). During start up and shutdown when the engine firing impulses are slow, the little shaft really takes a beating trying to accell/decel that heavy rotor. There are rubber bushings in the old compressor adapter that I thought would mitigate this, but they are too hard so in trying to solve one problem I created another.
Noise: The mufflers are not straight thru, though I an familiar with the kind you are talking about. When the flex exhaust pipe is run out of the shop, the exhaust is pretty quiet. One surprising source of noise was the engine INTAKE! The air filter housing is adapted of a Cavalier, and was originally just a 2-1/2 opening. In the pics you can see a trumpet off another old air filter duct taped on the inlet. This made an absolutely amazing decrease in noise level. Most of the noise is mechanical at this point. If you set the idle on an SD22 at 1800 and ran the exhaust outside and stuck your head under the hood, that's what it sounds like!
Anyway, I had probably better get to work now, but I appreciate all the inputs. No worries about me taking any criticisms personally, as with most of my projects it wasn't really designed from the ground up, but rather built from what I had lying around so compromises are inevitable...

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Post Number:#15  PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:33 am 
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Hi all, I have benn rebuilding a rotary screw air compressor for a friend and I got home too late to take any more pics yet, but I will try and address some of the comments:
U-jointed shaft: There is enough difference between the center lines of the engine and the ST (1800 rpm) generator head to keep the joints working. I really wanted a jaw type coupling, but went this way for a couple of reasons. First, I had the parts lying around ;) Second, the engine is rubber mounted on the frame and the gen head is solid mounted. I was afraid that the engine moving around on the rubber mounts plus the somewhat light weight material the frame is made of would give problems maintaining close enough shaft alignment to keep a jaw type coupling happy. The right answer is probably to solid mount the engine to the frame and put the rubber isolation between the frame and a sub-base of some kind, but here is the REAL problem with the u-jointed shaft: The rotor in the ST head is very heavy (lots of inertia). During start up and shutdown when the engine firing impulses are slow, the little shaft really takes a beating trying to accell/decel that heavy rotor. There are rubber bushings in the old compressor adapter that I thought would mitigate this, but they are too hard so in trying to solve one problem I created another.
Noise: The mufflers are not straight thru, though I an familiar with the kind you are talking about. When the flex exhaust pipe is run out of the shop, the exhaust is pretty quiet. One surprising source of noise was the engine INTAKE! The air filter housing is adapted of a Cavalier, and was originally just a 2-1/2 opening. In the pics you can see a trumpet off another old air filter duct taped on the inlet. This made an absolutely amazing decrease in noise level. Most of the noise is mechanical at this point. If you set the idle on an SD22 at 1800 and ran the exhaust outside and stuck your head under the hood, that's what it sounds like!
Anyway, I had probably better get to work now, but I appreciate all the inputs. No worries about me taking any criticisms personally, as with most of my projects it wasn't really designed from the ground up, but rather built from what I had lying around so compromises are inevitable...

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