glow plug circuit problemo

Discuss (and cuss) the Nissan LD-series OHC Six diesel engine, popularly available in the US in 1981-83 Datsun/Nissan Maxima Sedans & Wagons.

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philip
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Re: bus bar rev B

#61

Post by philip » 13 years ago

Such and elegantly hand crafted solution. What was the problem? Is the copper solid or tubular?
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

glenlloyd
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Re: bus bar rev B

#62

Post by glenlloyd » 13 years ago

philip wrote:Such and elegantly hand crafted solution. What was the problem? Is the copper solid or tubular?
Thanks Philip. It's solid #4 copper, which makes it a little tough to do crisp bends when you can't use anything more than a tiny vice and pliers.

steve a
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

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83_maxima
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#63

Post by 83_maxima » 13 years ago

Sign me up steve. I'm in for 1.

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philip
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Re: bus bar rev B

#64

Post by philip » 13 years ago

glenlloyd wrote:
philip wrote:Such an elegantly hand crafted solution. What was the problem? Is the copper solid or tubular?
Thanks Philip. It's solid #4 copper, which makes it a little tough to do crisp bends when you can't use anything more than a tiny vice and pliers.

steve a
Speaking electrically, was there a problem with the OEM wiring?

My memory is wanting ... do electrons travel ON the conductor surface or THRU the conductor?
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

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83_maxima
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Re: bus bar rev B

#65

Post by 83_maxima » 13 years ago

philip wrote:
glenlloyd wrote:
philip wrote:Such and elegantly hand crafted solution. What was the problem? Is the copper solid or tubular?
Thanks Philip. It's solid #4 copper, which makes it a little tough to do crisp bends when you can't use anything more than a tiny vice and pliers.

steve a
Speaking electrically, was there a problem with the OEM wiring?

My memory is wanting ... do electrons travel ON the conductor surface or THRU the conductor?
The original bus bars are aluminum and tend to corrode and break. They are also only sandwiched between the GP and the bar. I like the holes on steve's bus to accomodate the GP lugs.

glenlloyd
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Re: bus bar rev B

#66

Post by glenlloyd » 13 years ago

philip wrote:
glenlloyd wrote:
philip wrote:Such an elegantly hand crafted solution. What was the problem? Is the copper solid or tubular?
Thanks Philip. It's solid #4 copper, which makes it a little tough to do crisp bends when you can't use anything more than a tiny vice and pliers.

steve a
Speaking electrically, was there a problem with the OEM wiring?
My rationale wasn't really electrical but the problem I had with the OE bus bar was in how it fit at the plugs and with corrosion. The OE aluminum bar, as shown in Al's post on the prior page slips around the stud of the GP via a slot in the bar. When I tightened the nut around the OE bar it wanted to slip down and away from the plug.
philip wrote:My memory is wanting ... do electrons travel ON the conductor surface or THRU the conductor?
Well...don't quote me on it but I thought they travelled through a conductor, not on the surface.

steve a
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

glenlloyd
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#67

Post by glenlloyd » 13 years ago

Test fitting of the new design was a success. All the Rev. A problems have been circumvented thanks to Al's feedback.

Additionally, at the drop height of Rev. B the oil cooler top is not a problem, so this can be done with a single bend and straight mounting straps.

steve a
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

glenlloyd
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#68

Post by glenlloyd » 13 years ago

Here's the end result. The top bar is the prototype from which the simplified versions below were derived. Fortunately all the elegant but complicated bending and angled mounting straps were unnecessary for the final version, which have all been test fitted to the head.

Also Al, you'll be able to go back to using the knurled nuts instead of the hex nuts you had to acquire to make Rev A work.

http://members.isp01.net/addys/busbarrev2a.jpg (edit 18May2013: link dead)

Steve A
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

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asavage
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Re: bus bar rev B

#69

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

philip wrote:What was the problem?
Unlike the SDs, the LD uses a pattern-cut solid aluminum bus. They can't take a lot of force (as in when you tighten the GP nuts to clamp the bus to the GPs), and they corrode:

Image

This is a fairly common problem with the LDs.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

glenlloyd
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#70

Post by glenlloyd » 13 years ago

It's a weak design in a material that I would not have chosen for the job.

I'm not particularly fond of aluminum as a material for electrical use. It might be a perfectly good conductor but it wouldn't be my choice.

steve a
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

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asavage
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#71

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

On the topic of Glow Plug Controllers, there are at least a couple of aftermarket universal GPCs out there.

First one I have almost no info about WesterTurbo & FI Ltd. in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, offers a Universal Programmable Glow Plug Controller and doesn't say much about it.

Western Turbo & Fuel Injection Ltd.
http://www.westernturbo.com

Store location and
shipping address:
325 Eagle Drive
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Canada
R2R 1V4

Mailing address:
Box 98 Station L
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Canada
R3H 0Z4

Toll Free: 1 (800) 665-7556
Telephone: (204) 632-1366
Fax: (204) 694-3143
info@westernturbo.com


PDF for the Universal Programmable Glow Plug Controller is here, but it's slim pickin's: one page, and the meat of it is this:
WTFI wrote:WTFI Part # WTFI106A (Complete Assembly)

Western Turbo's Universal Programmable Glow Plug Controller can decrease glow plug ON time by measuring engine temperature. It can even provide cycled afterglow reducing smoke for environmentally sensitive situations.
Image Image Image

Would someone volunteer to contact these folks for more information (price & availability, install instructions download, specifications, programming software requirements, that sort of thing)?
Last edited by asavage 7 years ago, edited 3 times in total.

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asavage
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#72

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

Next is an offering by FourthGen
fourthgen@aol.com

Fourthgen (India)
64 Ravi Colony
West Marredpally
Secunderabad 500026
India

Tel/Fax: +91 40 27802491


Fourthgen (USA)
P.O. Box 431567
Miami, FL 33243
U.S.A.

Tel/Fax:
786-581-8802
Email: fourthgen@aol.com



SP-8
Automatic Engine Pre-Heating Kit for Diesel Engines
Do It Yourself Kit
.

Image Image Image Image Image
FourthGen wrote:12V Unit
$49.99 / Unit

Automatic Engine Pre-Heating Kit With Optional Simultaneous Heating & Optional Post-Heating for Diesel Engine Vehicles, Boats & Generators

For extremely cold below Zero temperatures the following additional options will give an even better performance

Add Simultaneous heating (Heating during Starting) for only $2.00

Add post heating for only $2.00

Description: This Automatic Engine Pre Heating System Kit is of our own patented design. It comprises of an Electronic Timer, Heavy Duty 80 Amps Solenoid Switch, Sensor and an Indicator Lamp. It comes fully pre-wired and mounted on a steel plate.

This kit has been specially developed for diesel engines that have Glow Plugs but do not have an automatic heating system. The system functions through an Electronic Timer which automatically adjusts the glow duration time. The Timer is controlled by the Sensor which senses the engine temperature. When the Ignition Switch is turned on, the Timer activates the Heavy Duty Solenoid Switch/ Glow Plug Relay connecting the battery and glow plugs. The Indicator Lamp mounted on the dashboard indicates the glow duration after which the starter should be turned ON.

This DIY kit comes mounted on a steel plate which can be affixed with 4 screws in the engine compartment. The kit comes fully pre-wired and only connections to the battery, Ignition Switch and Glow Plug connections need to be made. The Indicator Lamp can be mounted on the dashboard and the aluminium Sensor can be attached to any engine bolt to sense the engine temperature. The Timer comes preset to 7 seconds for the first cold starting temperature with 68F (20C) taken as a base ambient temperature but we can change this preset ambient temperature timing to as high or as low as you want. For extremely cold climates for e.g where temperatures drop below -30F, we also offer optional Simultaneous Heating (Heating during Starting and optional Post-heating (Heating after Starting). Each of these options will cost an additional $2.00. Please select a 12V or 24V system based on your battery voltage.

The system automatically adjusts the heating time based on your current engine temperature. For e.g. If the engine temperature is at -40F, the Timer will stay on longer for up to 24 seconds. If the engine temperature is 68F, the Timer will stay on for 7 seconds. If the engine temperature is 90F or higher, the Timer will come on for a second or less.

Dimensions: Approx Length: 175mm;
Width: 80mm; Height: 80mm
Weight: 610 grams

Applications: Our Engine Pre-Heating System allows instant cold starting of the engine and also eliminates white smoke during starting. This particular DIY kit is for diesel engines that do not have an automatic engine heating system. It can be used in any Vehicle, Boat or Generator run with a diesel engine with glow plugs.

Condition: Brand New. Fully Tested. Direct from factory.
This unit does not appear to be adjustable enough to make me want to buy it. I already know that if coolant temp is above 122°F, I still want some glow to get a clean start, and this system does not appear to be able to accommodate that.

Member Dave S. bought one of these, but never installed it.
Last edited by asavage 13 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

goglio704
Posts:726
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Location:East Tennessee

#73

Post by goglio704 » 13 years ago

asavage wrote:Would someone volunteer to contact these folks for more information (price & availability, install instructions download, specifications, programming software requirements, that sort of thing)?
Would sometime in the next few weeks be soon enough?
Matt B.

83 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 5 speed, white, 130k miles. My original Maxima.
83 Maxima Sedan converted from gasser, LD28, 5 speed, 2 tone blue, 230k miles
82 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, 2 tone Gray/Silver, 140k miles
81 810 Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, rust, rust, and more rust!

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD

goglio704
Posts:726
Joined:15 years ago
Location:East Tennessee

#74

Post by goglio704 » 13 years ago

A copy of my email sent today...

Hello,

I am hoping to find out some more information about your universal programmable glow plug controller.

Do you sell and ship to the U.S.?

What is the price of the unit?

Are the units available immediately, or are they built to order?

Do you have any installation instructions or specifications for review?

What are the requirements of the configuration software in terms of operating system, communications, etc?

Is the software included in the purchase price of the unit?

Thanks,

Matt
Matt B.

83 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 5 speed, white, 130k miles. My original Maxima.
83 Maxima Sedan converted from gasser, LD28, 5 speed, 2 tone blue, 230k miles
82 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, 2 tone Gray/Silver, 140k miles
81 810 Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, rust, rust, and more rust!

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD

goglio704
Posts:726
Joined:15 years ago
Location:East Tennessee

#75

Post by goglio704 » 13 years ago

After some nudging, this is the answer I got today from Western Turbo. The brochure he mentions isn't technical in nature...
Western Turbo wrote:Matt,

I have attached a brochure we used at the ADS conference in July for your review. We do sell to the US and we have units ready to go. A typical installation is custom based on the specific vehicle and type/part # of the glow plugs and application it might be used. We custom program, again based on the application.

We currently do not offer the programming software to individual customers but if you were to buy several units, we charge a license fee for the software and the interface is a standard RS-232(?) cable. I can’t remember the exact name of the connector.

If you were interested in purchasing one, we would need the vehicle application with the type of glow plugs installed and the specifics of what you are looking for. Some customers want longer cycled glow time in cold applications to preserve the life of glow plugs and others want cycled after glow to clear up the smoke and get rid of that diesel rattle associated with cold engines. It all depends on what you are looking for and we would program accordingly. If the program wasn’t what you wanted, send the controller back and we program it until you are satisfied. The wiring diagram is custom based on the engine and vehicle application.

Something to keep in mind: If you are looking for the unit to give you faster starts, it will only work if your engine is healthy and your glow plugs are good. It doesn’t cure any problems, it just overcomes shortfalls in the original control over the glow plugs.

I hope this helps and gives you enough information to return with more questions.

Thanks
Mike Munroe
Business Development Manager
Western Turbo and Fuel Injection Ltd
Matt B.

83 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 5 speed, white, 130k miles. My original Maxima.
83 Maxima Sedan converted from gasser, LD28, 5 speed, 2 tone blue, 230k miles
82 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, 2 tone Gray/Silver, 140k miles
81 810 Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, rust, rust, and more rust!

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD

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