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Nissan diesel engines, and the people who love them
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Post Number:#1  PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:17 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:57 am
Posts: 46
Location: Hillman West Australia
after messing about servicing and replacing my Warmers and finding I have four different warmers in my Ute and have ordered a complete new set from Queensland, so replaced the old ones
to tide me over and on completion I fired her up and noticed I have a massive fuel leak from the IP about half way from the front, and between the Engine Block and the IP body "i think",
I have now bought a Workshop Manual from another chap also in Queensland, and am awaiting this also!

The Leak showed up after I had used the Handpump on the Fuel Filter to clear any unwanted Air, and about then found the rather large leak, Now I do not want to strip the pump down
before I have the Manual in my Grubby little hands as my memory has given me a bad time lately!

Question:
Have you run into this in your past, and might be able to give me a clue, there is no way I could afford to replace the IP @ Sixteen Hundred Dollars here in Australia, are the any hidden Seals
I should look for, and the motor runs superbly after the other work I have complete!

Best Regards,

John Richards
"highway man"
Australia!


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Post Number:#2  PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Posts: 46
Location: Hillman West Australia
Good Morning yet again, I am still awaiting the arrival of my New "2nd hand" to me Workshop Manual for my "D21 Diesel", Three Diesel mechanics have looked at my "Fuel discharge" and all
three have pulled faces at me and stated it is probably a top Gasket and requires the top of the Pump to be removed, and they are "Mongeral Pumps" to work on and will cost much for the
job to be done, yet nobody bothered with a "Quote", which did not endear me to them!

Today, I am going to play a fool and ask our Local Nissan Dealer for a quote on the job, and take my old Shotgun with me so to visit the local Bank and do a "12 Gauge withdrawal" to help
me pay for this, Tell me please, are these little pumps really that tricky to dismantle and repair, or am I being shortchanged?!

Best regards,

Highway Man! :idea:


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Post Number:#3  PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:04 pm 
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Posts: 392
Location: Vancouver Washington USA
I have never had one apart and put back together, but I have one off the engine right now, so I took a couple photos of it.
Could that little screw have been removed, or did it just start leaking for no reason?
The pump don't have a top to remove, are all the injector lines tight on the top of the pump?

This might not be the kind of pump you have, if yours is a VE type pump then I have not a clue.


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Post Number:#4  PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:37 pm 
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Posts: 797
Location: Cochrane Alberta Canada
The top cover of my VE pump leaked where the main throttle shaft went it. It was worn oval kind-of thing. The rebuilders could not get a new top cover but did drill it out and put in a bushing/sleeve. That was a number of years ago and its been good since.

I suspect that the ULSD fuel may have finally caught up to your neoprene seals and O rings etc. and gaskets.
My pump was around $540.00 cad to rebuild with the new Viteon seals, test bench for 1 hour at different loads and throttle positions.
You may have to seek out an actual fuel pump rebuilders and take the pump.off yourself.etc.

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Post Number:#5  PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:38 pm 
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Location: Cochrane Alberta Canada
Edit
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Post Number:#6  PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:57 am
Posts: 46
Location: Hillman West Australia
It is so good to hear from you both again, far to long since our last "Campfire Chat" Firstly Waynsoworld I cannot find where the Model Tag is but by the shape from some Pictures I have
downloaded it certainly appears to be a "VE Model with the Machincal Governor" "non Electrical type", I also only ever worked on an "AEC" Diesel Auxiliary in a Navy Frigate when I was about Twenty, and had a P.O. hanging over my shoulder as I performed for him!

and Plenzen:

This problem raised it's ugly Head about two days ago while I was quietly Servicing my Warmers, and started Her up to check my job as completed and found I had a leak from the "IP" and
my Hair became Whiter, I do believe your "ULSD Theory" might well be the right answer, I am going to have a crack at this myself as prices around here are looking like $1600:00 Au' upwards
and this is a lot more then I can afford, Once this "new to me Workshop Manual" has arrived I will order a "Gasket Kit" from Queensland and proceed to remove Her Injectors and pump then
Photograph as I strip it down and send you both Numbered Photo's to help me with my Memory as I try and sort Her out, if you both don't mind, maybe It would be more beneficial to
upload onto the Forum so other members can use them when it becomes their turn as well, if they also own older Models, if you are both in agreement!

It has too be said, You have been a wonderful source of Information to many Forum Members of our "DiY Clan" along, with others as well, I figure the Manual will be another Five days to
arrive here, and I will give it a good read while I am in the Local Hospital having a "Pacemaker fitted", but enough of my Drivel and I wish you both well!
Best Wishes to you both,

highway man,
John Richards,
Western Australia.


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Post Number:#7  PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:48 am 
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Posts: 797
Location: Cochrane Alberta Canada
Good luck getting your "booster pump" installed. Hope it goes well for you.
1600 aud = 1611.00 cad ! That's a ton of money to put a seal kit in a pump. WOW !
These little guys are pretty complicated in their designs and not sure if you have seen a drawing or picture of one "exploded" but there are many many things in there.
I'm not questioning your mechanical abilities by any means but, it will we be a "project" for sure.
There are many of the internal pieces that may have to be removed in order to get something off that has a seal or o ring or gasket in it/on it/ or around it.
Is the 1600 you quote for a replacement pump or is that the rebuild price. ?

Did you speak to these guys ?

http://www.dieselspecialists.com.au/

You do not have to remove the injectors to remove the pump. In fact. You can just remove the injector lines from the injectors and leave them connected to the pump. Make sure you line up the timing marks on the internal gears before removal. There are 2 marks on the engine and one on the pump gear. You see how they are oriented once your in there.
Also....
When your about to remove the gear from the pump put a rag in the hole so if the key in the pump falls out you don't lose it into the timing cover. That little event will turn into a much bigger project and no doubt test the limits of that new piece of kit your about to have installed.

Keep us posted Mr.
And
Best of luck on your upcoming "service call"

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Post Number:#8  PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:50 pm 
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Posts: 392
Location: Vancouver Washington USA
There is not a lot in back of the VE injection pump except a fuel supply line going to the front of the pump and the oil dipstick tube, if the fuel line got a hole in it that would be a leak for sure.
You can see it squirting out from between the seams in the housing, I just cannot see how changing glow plugs could cause this issue unless something got dropped and a screwdriver was used to retrieve dropped part and the line in the back got punctured or the housing was used for leverage and it got damaged, seems like you would be able to see the damage though.
Below is a photo of the back of the VE injection pump, I do not know a lot about these pumps, I have this one because a business back east was clearing out their inventory on eBay and I snagged this rebuilt one for a reasonable price.


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Post Number:#9  PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:13 am 
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Location: Cochrane Alberta Canada
Mine started leaking all of a sudden as well Wayne. The seals (neoprene) in them do not handle the ULSD for very long and then just crack. There is a thread on here that either Al or Phillip (rip) did about this very thing. Mine ended up with the bottom of the pump all wet. I think it was the top cover was dribbling and running down the back side of the pump.
It may still be something as simple as the fuel inlet or return lines leaking at the fittings.

Question
What oil dipstick tube ?

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Post Number:#10  PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 8:04 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Washington USA
plenzen wrote:
Mine started leaking all of a sudden as well Wayne. The seals (neoprene) in them do not handle the ULSD for very long and then just crack. There is a thread on here that either Al or Phillip (rip) did about this very thing. Mine ended up with the bottom of the pump all wet. I think it was the top cover was dribbling and running down the back side of the pump.
It may still be something as simple as the fuel inlet or return lines leaking at the fittings.

Question
What oil dipstick tube ?



I have heard that the VE type injection pump don't last near as long as the inline pump as they last a long time.
Is the SD22 and SD25 VE type injection pump the same pump, can I use a SD22 pump on my SD25 and expect it to run properly or does the SD22 pump need to be turned up/modified internally?
I would likely already have tried to turbocharge the SD22 I have with the VE pump if I had not bought the SD25 turbocharged engine from Larry(larryr on here), but in the end I am happy it played out the way it did and I succeeded in getting the 720 and the 521 running properly with the turbochargers as blow thru with the inline pumps, I have learned a lot over the last few years.
I even learned how to make it work as a draw thru, but a proper turbocharger with proper seals needs to be used so oil isn't pulled thru the turbos seal, and they do make such a turbocharger as I asked when I visited a turbo specialty place, but I am cheap and didn't want to spend that type of money as I still didn't know if this whole thing was going to have a happy ending.

Below are a couple photos of my rebuilt SD22 that I put a VE type injection pump on that I got off an engine I had shipped from Australia, you can see the oil dipstick tube between the first and second injectors, it's in the same place on the Australian engine, but the tube might have gone up to a different place.


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Post Number:#11  PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:52 am 
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Location: Cochrane Alberta Canada
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Post Number:#12  PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:57 am
Posts: 46
Location: Hillman West Australia
Good Morning Gentlemen,
Another step in the D21 having a Leak"?", The Warmers I ordered here in Queensland have arrived and are pleasing to say the least, I will put these aside for the moment as I prepare myself
for the Leak Repair, I have pestered the Local "Nissan Dealer" for anything that might help me, all to no avail, and was informed by the "Service Manager" that the Model Numbers had been rubbed off and without these they could be of no help to me in my quest for any parts, then, as I was walking across the Customers Car Park, I was stopped by a young lad who was a "Mechanic"
at the Dealers and he informed me they never bothered to look too closely as they might have gotten dirty Hands!

He asked if I had a Workshop Manual and I told him I was awaiting such from "Evilbay", he smiled, and said for me to follow his advice and remove my Right Front Wheel and the inner spray
shield and have a "Bow Peep" at the bottom of the Pump from underneath and I will be back in business with my "Beastie" and her Leak, so I scooted for home and proceeded to follow his instructions, and thankfully there to my surprise were two sets of numbers, these were written down and I returned to our local Dealers, and I then ordered a new "Top Gasket" and was
offered a "Printed Exploded view" of the complete "VE Pump" along with the part numbers, all for "two Dollars Australian"!

Waynosworld,
I agree with you as to the reliability of the inline pump and it's long-levity, but the VE is what I have to play with so my next question is to Plenzen!

Plenzen,
When yours sprung a Leak, did you repair it yourself or not, and if so could you tell me how many parts are there under the top cover that might jump out and give me another "Stroke" LoL,
I am still awaiting the arrival of the "New 2nd hand to me Manual" and I'm chaffing at the "Bit" to get started, as the Dealer wants $1600:00 to do the job, and that's not likely to happen in my Lifetime!
If you want a copy of the Parts Sheet, I will send it to each of you, although I would bet a Buck you already have it LoL.

Best wishes to both of you and thanks again for being there for us others!

John Richards,
highway man!
Western Australia.


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Post Number:#13  PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:44 pm 
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Location: Cochrane Alberta Canada
Good Morning/evening John. I trust your peesonal "pump maintenance" went well

I did not do it myself. I took it to a diesel fuel systems rebuilder and had it completely overhauled for around 650.00 Cad. Some new internal pieces and a sleeve and bushing installed in the upper housing where the throttle shaft goes through and all new seals.
I sent you a link to a diesel pump rebuilder in Queensland. Did you speak to those fellows? To be honest with you I have always just left diesel fuel pump rebuilding and tear down etc. to the people that do nothing but rebuild them. They are expensive, many times complicated, require absolute cleanliness and specialized equipment to set them up to proper specs.
As for what lurks under that cover I can't tell you.
The exploded view you have should give you some idea however.
I assume you have determined where the leak is coming from.

I just did a quick Google search for Queensland and found a couple.of diesel injection service places. The dealer will most likely send the pump to one of them anyway and charge you 20 points on that rate as well.
In the end it's up to you.

Keep us posted as what you decide and how you make out.

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Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN


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Post Number:#14  PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Posts: 46
Location: Hillman West Australia
Good Morning again to you both!

A couple of pieces I missed in my last answer to you,
That mob in Queensland, looks very smart but they were one lot who's quote was around $1500.00au and therefore I bypast them as others who were way over my head and on further
thoughts I might sell our old Single Axle Caravan to cover the cost, we dont use it much these days!

And as for my "Machincal Prowers," now days I would have to say after three "Strokes" I would be equal to a 3rd Year Apprentice or there abouts and will be very careful with my decision
in the matter, Here is a Photo of t5he Unit I have built so I can carry another quarter of a "Ton" on my Tray!

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All my best to you both!
John Richards
West Aust'
highway man!


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Post Number:#15  PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Posts: 392
Location: Vancouver Washington USA
Is this the same injection pump as your injection pump?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nissan-SD22-OEM ... V2&vxp=mtr
The pump is used, but the seller has 100 percent positive feedback, something to think about if yours cannot be fixed.

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