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Post Number:#91  PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:57 pm 
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All them photos are of the same side of the filter, the outside, it's just the light that makes it look darker, I started at one end and it took 4 photos to get to the other end.
The other side was dry looking/not shiny at all, it didn't even look wet, it was basically clean.
I thru that filter material away after taking the photos, didn't even think of taking photos of the other side, I didn't want it lying on the floor.

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Last edited by waynosworld on Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Number:#92  PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:09 am 
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Carimbo wrote:
waynosworld wrote:
I don't have a clue if it looks bad or not..

Look at your second photo of the fuel filter, the one that shows the center section of the fuel filter. That is supposed to be the clean (filtered) side. No matter how dirty the outside of the filter looks, or the cup (also the dirty side), the clean (filtered) side better look clean. I see all kinds of gritty crud on the clean side. Which means it is likely to have migrated into the IP.

Before we condemn the IP, have you checked for air intrusion? Splice in a section of clear fuel tubing at the IP fuel out fitting and check for tiny bubbles immediately after the problem reappears. Shouldn't be any.


I don't understand the IP fuel out fitting, the fuel leaves the IP thru the injection lines that go to the injectors.
Are you talking about the IP feed line, the middle banjo fitting line on the fuel filter that goes to the injection pump?
I would likely have to remove the hood, make a loop that sticks up and drive it and then hope I could see the bubbles while driving it down the freeway at 65/70mph, I don't see so good/that good anymore.
Finding the pre-filter empty and pumping on the hand primer without results is what is bothering me, I could not get fuel to the pre-filter by pumping the hand primer or starting the engine and running it, I am assuming that the engine was running on what was in the lines coming from the fuel filter.
I actually checked all the lines today after the last drive, I used air on all of them to dry them out, I then started it and looked for wetness anywhere but found none, I looked at every line for cuts and cracks.
Once the pre-filter fills up and is full I don't see any more bubbles coming thru, but the filter is not clear.
In the past when I put a new pre-filter in the line and I started it I would get out and watch the filter fill up right away, this morning after I blew the feed line out from the pre-filter connection to the tank and connected everything back up, I pumped on that hand primer for a long time(couple minutes) without any result, I then started the engine and it still didn't fill up, so then I removed that pre-filter and put on one of the new cheap inline filters I have been using for years and started it again thinking maybe the other filter may have got water in it and the filter material would not let anything thru anymore, still nothing happened after I started it, I ran it for maybe a half minute and that brand new filter didn't show a drop of fuel in it, that is when I added the electric fuel pump back by the tank and got fuel to the pre-filter again, I made it 10 miles before having issues, but I had issues even with the electric fuel pump in the line, the pre-filter was empty the next time I stopped from bad power loss and popped the hood, that is when I filled the tank to the top at the fuel station but still had issues a few miles later.
I ordered a new fuel pump/primer tonight, I am hoping it arrives before next weekend, but I have a crate engine in my back room with a brand new one on it, I might use that one tomorrow if it drives me crazy not working on it.

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Post Number:#93  PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:04 am 
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Any way you can put a jerry can on the floor of the passenger seat. Run a clear plastic line from it to the pump and a return line to it and take it for a scoot ? This will eliminate for sure anything going on in the existing fuel system/lines/pickup/filter housing/rubber hoses etc.
I realize the jerry can will be higher than the fuel tank, but once you get the siphon action happening it should feed ok as long as you keep the inlet end of the hose submerged.
Maybe even use your electric pump to prime everything and then remove it and see what happens with the mechanical lift pump on the engine.

If the can is clean and you have fresh clean diesel in it then just one of those inline filters would be OK just for testing purposes.

Air pressure blowing backwards may "open" what ever may be blocking when sucking.

Just a thought.

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Post Number:#94  PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:50 am 
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plenzen wrote:
Any way you can put a jerry can on the floor of the passenger seat. Run a clear plastic line from it to the pump and a return line to it and take it for a scoot ? This will eliminate for sure anything going on in the existing fuel system/lines/pickup/filter housing/rubber hoses etc.
I realize the jerry can will be higher than the fuel tank, but once you get the siphon action happening it should feed ok as long as you keep the inlet end of the hose submerged.
Maybe even use your electric pump to prime everything and then remove it and see what happens with the mechanical lift pump on the engine.

If the can is clean and you have fresh clean diesel in it then just one of those inline filters would be OK just for testing purposes.

Air pressure blowing backwards may "open" what ever may be blocking when sucking.

Just a thought.


I did the air already, that is when I realized I might have a lift pump/fuel pump issue, after that I added the electric fuel pump.
I will use the electric pump to fill a 5 gallon can up.

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Post Number:#95  PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:11 pm 
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I reread my post above and what I meant to say was ...............
It may be a "one way" thing is all I was thinking of.
Lets air back "upstream" ( with the air hose) but plugs going "downstream" kinda thing.

Good luck and fingers crossed.

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Post Number:#96  PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:31 pm 
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Ok, so I did quite a bit today, I started with the thought of using a tank in the bed to see if it was the tank that was the issue, but once I got the hose off the tank and nothing came out I started wondering what was going on, so I stuck a clear hose on the fitting and sucked on the end of it and fuel came out easily I blew back in and heard it bubble, so then I tested the line going from the tank forward, I blew on it and heard air bubbling on the other end, so that was good also, I made a line and connected the tank to the fuel line, the return line was tested last night, it is good also.
I don't know about the pick up tube having a hole in it, but it is submerged, so any hole in it would not effect anything right now.
I looked at the lift pump/fuel pump, then went in the house and removed the new fuel pump from the crate engine and installed it on the engine in the truck, I also made new lines for the injection pump feed line and the fuel filter feed line I checked the return lines and wasn't worried about them.
I noticed the date and mileage on the oil filter, so I changed the oil also, I then seen a screw in my tire, so I pulled it out and it started leaking air, so I fixed that also, I got everything cleaned up and took it for a test drive.
So I still have power loss/a miss, but it is not nearly as bad now, I can keep it going 75/80mph if I floor it, but it is still missing, just not nearly as bad as before, I will drive it again tomorrow 65/70 to see if it misses again, but something has changed this test drive as it was not like the other times I had power loss, them times I had to pull off to the side of the road as I was only going 30mph, I never got below 60mph this test drive, but I was floored, I pulled over and the pre-filter had air in it, but only a little at the top.
It still has an issue, I will try using a rubber fuel line from the tank to the pre-filter tomorrow, I don't see why air in that line would cause an issue as the banjo fitting on the fuel filter should take care of that air, but I will try it anyway as if there is enough air I suppose the injection pump feed line could get air in it.
It seems to me that if the hard line had a hole in it then the line would leak onto the ground when the engine wasn't running, but I see no wet spots on the ground.
I used air to blow around all the fittings/injectors to dry them out and looked for leaks while it was running, the freaking thing has no fuel leaks.
I have thought about that maybe I am pushing it to hard, but I drove it to Olympia and back going 75/80mph without a miss as I recall, so it seems like I should be able to drive it that way for 5/6 miles without it missing.
OK, so when I bought this SD25 engine, it had a SD22 throttle body/intake manifold on it, it may also have an SD22 injection pump on it instead of an SD25 injection pump, when I put the turbocharger on it I put a SD25 intake manifold/throttle body on it, it ran fine for one trip and most the next trip, I went up hills just fine.
By the way, the hand primer worked fine this time when I pumped it after I had changed/blew air thru the lines, it didn't work at all yesterday on the old lift pump/primer after I blew out the line.
I will try a temporary rubber line from the tank to the pre-filter tomorrow and take another test drive.

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Post Number:#97  PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:44 am 
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Maybe try a clear plastic line so you can see if there is any air getting in ?

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Post Number:#98  PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:27 pm 
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I am running out of things to check/do except to put back things I have changed, there is no air getting in thru the lines, I have no way of checking it while I am driving short of removing my hood so I can see the clear hose while driving, there is no air in the line coming from the tank when idling and revving the engine in my driveway and I have the same exact power loss with the rubber line as the hard line.
I have not put a clear line in between the fuel filter and the injection pump, I suppose that is next but I have the same problem, I can not see it when I am driving.
I am wondering if this could have anything to do with outside air temp therefore effecting intake air temp, I have no intercooler, the reason I have mentioned this is because when I first started driving with the turbocharger installed it was cool outside, the trip to Olympia was on a cool day both ways, the trip to Hood River was cool in the morning(7am), but the trip back was in the afternoon and it was sunny and I was trying to keep my speed below 70mph, but by the time I got back into Portland it was warm, but I grabbed the intake tube today when it started losing power and it was not too hot to the touch or to hold on to.
Today I used a rubber line from the tank to the pre-filter, the last 5 feet was clear line.
I also put a valve in the vent line going from the intake to the injection pump, it made no difference, I did try just venting it to air/atmosphere first, but the engine started surging so I turned around, drove home, and put the valve in the line, then did the test drive.
I have mentioned this before, my EGTs are fine, but my water temp is a little higher, it wasn't like this on the trip to Olympia except on the one big hill at the rest area at the 55 mile marker on the I5 freeway and it didn't lose power either, but it was cooler outside than it has been lately, but that drive to Canby was at 9am and it wasn't that warm out.
I went on ebay and found these air temp gauges, it's kinda weird they show gauges with needles in one photo and show blue digital in another photo, same seller in both links/auctions, first one is dual sensors and the second one is just one sensor.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52mm-Dual-Air-I ... Oq&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52mm-Air-Intake ... 9s&vxp=mtr
I am now going to put it back to the way it was and wait for responses.

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Post Number:#99  PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:16 pm 
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I got nothing left

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Post Number:#100  PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:54 pm 
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I am starting to think it is heat related, and the issue is likely the injection pump in some way.
This morning it drove alright, it lost power but I didn't have to floor it trying to keep my speed up, as the day went by and it got warmer and warmer, the power loss got worse and worse, the last test drive I had loss of power in first gear when starting out from a stop sign at the bottom of the hill.
I disconnected the arm on the injection pump to see if that was the issue on the side of the freeway, nope, the warmer it gets the worse it gets, yesterday power loss wasn't terrible, but it was a cloudy drizzly day, it didn't even get to 70 degrees, it's over 80 degrees now and power loss is obvious, I was floored and going 50mph at the top of a short hill on the last 5 mile test drive.
I am going to wait for a cool day and test drive it again while the engine is cold and see if it is all of a sudden better.
Could a blown head gasket cause something like this?
My coolant level has not dropped, but I flushed the system for over an hour while it was running a week or two ago and put fresh green antifreeze in it, it turned rust colored really fast, this is something new, but I have no coolant loss.
All these issues started happening after it warmed up around here.

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Post Number:#101  PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:05 am 
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I'm almost out of ideas. First off, I have never done this so this is not from experience, just from reading about it. If it is heat related I do have something for you to try that is used by GM 6.2/6.5 owners. The GM 6.2/6.5 has a rotary IP which, when age takes it's toll, gets hard to start when the motor warms up and the IP is warmed up. At this point if the motor is shut off and re-starting is tried within a short time it won't easily start. If some cool, not ice cold, water is poured over the IP, the IP will cool down and the metal will shrink enough to tighten up the tolerances inside the IP and allow it to work and the motor can then be started.

You don't have a rotary IP, but if your IP is warming up and the tolerances inside it are opening up a bit it might be allowing the IP to not put out the correct amount of fuel. I don't guarantee that trying this will make any difference, but it is worth a try. If you do this while the motor is running rough and the motor runs better, then you know for sure that the IP is getting weak. If you have a pressure gauge to put in an input line between the fuel pump and the IP you could monitor fuel pressures while pouring water over the IP.

I just had a thought. Maybe the problem is in the fuel pump on the side of the IP. Without going back and re-reading, did you try replacing the pump? It seems like you stated that you tried an electric fuel pump without any changes, but I can't remember for sure. My memory is playing tricks on me at the moment. If not, try the cold water over just the fuel pump before doing the IP.

Don


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Post Number:#102  PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:29 pm 
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I changed out the lift pump/fuel pump with a new one I had on a spare crate engine in my parts room, it made no difference.
This truck is not dependable now, I am unhappy, I can pull this engine and put the crate engine in the truck, but right now I just don't have the time, I have another SD25 that was over heated in the shed that has an injection pump on it, but that one had WVO put thru it, but I suppose that if it worked without the same issues I am having right now I would know it was the injection pump that was the issue.
This engine has an oil leak also, the top starter mount bolt is stripped, I wish there was a way to know for sure the injection pump was the issue, I don't have any spare inline injection pumps except what is on the crate engine and I am not pulling that pump off that engine.
I really don't want to put a intercooler on this truck, I wish I knew more than I do about these engines.

handcannon wrote:
I'm almost out of ideas. First off, I have never done this so this is not from experience, just from reading about it. If it is heat related I do have something for you to try that is used by GM 6.2/6.5 owners. The GM 6.2/6.5 has a rotary IP which, when age takes it's toll, gets hard to start when the motor warms up and the IP is warmed up. At this point if the motor is shut off and re-starting is tried within a short time it won't easily start. If some cool, not ice cold, water is poured over the IP, the IP will cool down and the metal will shrink enough to tighten up the tolerances inside the IP and allow it to work and the motor can then be started.

You don't have a rotary IP, but if your IP is warming up and the tolerances inside it are opening up a bit it might be allowing the IP to not put out the correct amount of fuel. I don't guarantee that trying this will make any difference, but it is worth a try. If you do this while the motor is running rough and the motor runs better, then you know for sure that the IP is getting weak. If you have a pressure gauge to put in an input line between the fuel pump and the IP you could monitor fuel pressures while pouring water over the IP.

I just had a thought. Maybe the problem is in the fuel pump on the side of the IP. Without going back and re-reading, did you try replacing the pump? It seems like you stated that you tried an electric fuel pump without any changes, but I can't remember for sure. My memory is playing tricks on me at the moment. If not, try the cold water over just the fuel pump before doing the IP.

Don

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Post Number:#103  PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:37 am 
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Sadly Wayne I think that the head gasket my in fact be your issue here. Not too uncommon to happen after you boost an older engine. It would coincide with your coolant color change, running warmer than usual, and your "problems when hot" observations as well.
Not certain that the time and expense etc on an inter cooler will help at all, in fact, may even make it worse. ( if it's the head gasket). You can have a "one way" leak with a head gasket as well.

You can certainly test for products of combustion in the coolant with one of these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHp5E7XnbXo

Make sure you get the fluid for diesels as I believe it's different.

https://www.amazon.ca/Lisle-75730-Diese ... B000I16L90

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-75500-Comb ... B0007ZDRUI

I believe that your auto supply store may have one of these to rent to you. They do here in Canada so pretty sure that Autozone or O'Reillys or some such place will have one there.


:( :(

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Post Number:#104  PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:56 am 
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So I remembered this morning I have this other inline injection pump set up for a boat, compressor, water pump, I could not get it to run properly on my SD25 in the 720, I thought what if I change the back half to the vacuum style, so I pulled it out, the front looked the same, but the back is missing an oil port/line that the automotive engine type injection pump has, does anyone know what that oil line does/lubes, can I use the pump without it?

I cannot get this site to load a photo for some reason.

Here is the new injection pump without the oil line or oil port.
Attachment:
DSCN7141.JPG
DSCN7141.JPG [ 450.35 KiB | Viewed 33 times ]

Here is the injection pump that has the oil line/port.
Attachment:
DSCN7143.JPG
DSCN7143.JPG [ 461.57 KiB | Viewed 33 times ]

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Last edited by waynosworld on Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Number:#105  PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:56 pm 
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I changed the air filter, drove it no change, adjusted the valves, drove it no change.
I ran cold water over the injection pump but by the time I am able to get to the freeway I am fairly positive that it is warmed up, but it felt like it was losing power before I made it to the freeway anyway, so I turned around.
I would mess around with the smog/smoke screw but it ran good the way it was before, and it is so hard to even access that area, I would have to remove the battery, the new oil filter, and that devise that the injection pump control arm hits when in the start position, it's a dampener of some type like the one up on the throttle body.
I am thinking engine or injection pump now, if I removed the thermostat it might run cooler but it loses power even when the engine coolant needle is not showing slightly warm, so I don't see the point of removing it as it could possibly break a bolt trying to remove it, so it is not worth it in my opinion.
Changing the injection pump in the 521 will be hard to do, I really don't want to do that unless I have a known good SD25 injection pump that I do not have except for maybe the one on the crate engine, and I have no plans on removing that one from that engine, I would change out engines before doing that.
I bought a 720 console/stash box today, it turned out that the guy was into diesel engines that I bought it from, he said he had a friend that lived for turbocharged diesel engines and he was going to tell that guy about me, maybe that guy can figure out what is going on.
The guy told me a way of putting one drop of oil onto a piece of cardboard to see if there was fuel in the oil(bad injectors), so I put one drop of oil from the engine, one drop of my old oil from the oil change, and one drop of diesel fuel, the oil didn't spread out on the edges like he was describing(the way the fuel did), so I don't believe I have bad injectors.

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