elminero67 wrote:Thanks again for the post and support. I'm still absorbing all of the info, as I struggle to learn stuff by reading...bear with me, I'm trying
Waynosworld, As I mentioned, I struggle learning stuff reading it, If I'm understanding you correctly, the wire to the IP is a shutoff that needs to be live in order to work, and ceases to work when there is no juice?
The above statement is correct.
It needs 12 volts to make it run, as that switch/solenoid is what cuts off the fuel, the reason I basically have two wires going to that fuel cutoff is because when I turn it over it gets power from the relay, and when it starts and I let off the key, it gets power from the washer bottle motor power, as I said, I could not find a power source that worked in both key positions, when you wire it, you need to have power to it in both key positions, start and run.
Have you pulled the transmission off yet, I am really interested in what flywheel it has????
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.
I did pull off the SD23 transmission as well as pull the SD22 motor and tranny from the jeep. Looks like standard. I too don't really understand the shift pattern. I haven't measured anything yet-it was cold and nasty out and was rushing to get back next to the fire...
Here are the three transmissions, respectively 1982 SD22 2wd foreground, z24 4x4 in the middle, and the sd23 "bastard" transmission in the back. All the same length, same output shaft.
I keep asking about the flywheel for a couple reasons, one is that it looks like a normal flywheel, I suspect it will be, another reason is I want to see what the size of the cover/disc is, as this is very important, you see if it has a 240mm clutch cover/disc, you can not use the clutch arm/collar that is in the SD22 transmission, as it has a 225mm clutch cover/flywheel, that throwout bearing/collar is made for 225mm, not 240mm.
The rule is, the throwout bearing collar is mated to the clutch cover.
The transmission that came with the engine, do not lose that throwout bearing collar, you might have to use it, I hope it is the same.
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.
I am not sure how to measure the "clutch cover/flywheel, that throwout bearing/collar". Is this the correct way? It is 223 mm (quick check-I cant get the right end of the gauge into the hole so I'm guessing that it is actually 225 mm). I get the same 220-225mm on both the SD23 (seen below in first pic) and the 1982 SD22 with FS5W71.
also-no damage evident on the throwout collar of the SD22/FS5W71 (second pic). The throwout bearing is crunchy though. Will pull off cover this afternoon, first need to put all of the SD22 parts back together before I start mixing stuff up.
This is how you measure your clutch cover and clutch disc, you are going to want to check them anyway before you put it together.
Remove the clutch cover and measure them like in the photos below.
It's almost 9 1/2 inches or 240mm
The disc should be the same, but measure it anyway.
If it is 225mm, this is the measurement.
It looks to have a normal flywheel, but cannot tell with the clutch cover on it.
Keep the clutch arm/collar with the transmission it came from, or mark them so you don't get them mixed up, the clutch covers have different height collars, 240mm covers use a different height collar than a 225mm cover, you have to remember which clutch arm/throwout bearing collar goes with which clutch cover.
We have threads all the time on the other forums I belong to, they are about why peoples clutches don't work after they put it back together, 99 percent of the time, they put he wrong throwout bearing collar in the transmission, and they have to take it all apart again.
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.
The fog/mist stopped and the thermometer went above 40 degrees, so I was able to get some work done (edit-looking at the pic below is hard to see, will post a better pic in next post) hopefully this will answer a few questions for all of us:
And a number on the clutch assembly, have not checked it out yet but want to order a new clutch before reassembling.
Last edited by elminero6710 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
But here is where it may get interesting: I couldn't help but pull the cover off the mystery SD23 transmission, hoping that I could see if the extra 1984 720 5-speed transmission I had laying around could be combined with the bellhousing from the SD23. I first pulled the cover off the 1984 720 transmission to see if it had the 56mm or the improved 60mm bearing on 1984 and later (iirc it changed during the year).
The 1984 720 transmission had the 56mm bearing. If I were to guess, the mystery SD23 transmission would have the 60mm bearing-BUT the SD23 has the 56mm and from all external appearances, looks exactly the same. hmmmmm. time to open her up and see what we have (or what dumps all over my workbench never to be reassembled!).
here is the bearing retainer case-exactly the same in the 1984 720, the SD23 mystery case and the 1982 SD22 5-speed (not shown).
And here are the innards of the mystery SD23 tranny (foreground) and the 1984 720. If anyone can spot any(internal) difference between the 1984 FS5W71B and the SD23 mystery transmission, I'm all ears cause to my casual glance it looks like a FS5W71B. If so, this is great news because the transmission truly looks like a 60,000 mile transmission. The gear oil looked as clear as from the factory and the magnetic drainplug did not have any metal particles. If so-I can hopefully swap on the 1984 tailshaft housing and have a very low milage transmission
Ok, that helps a lot, you have the SD23/25 flywheel, it has the tight mount pattern.
It doesn't matter how big the flywheel is itself, they are all the same size, so that number really doesn't matter, it's the flywheel your going to be using, you got lucky, that isn't an auto transmission.
You also have the normal 225mm clutch cover/disc that the SD22 has, so the throwout bearing collar on the original transmission that you pulled out of the jeep will work, and the throwout bearing collar on the transmission that came with the engine should also be the same.
Did that front cover on your original transmission in the Jeep get broken?
This is my world(diesel transmissions), when I have a bad transmission, that will normally be the first one I pull apart, just to see how bad it is, and what needs to be done to fix it, because if it is broken beyond repair, I will keep the front case unless it is actually cracked/wasted to the point that it cannot be machined to the bigger cluster bearing, and toss the rest so it is not in my way or on my mind anymore, if the case is good on the leaky transmission, I would use that case, if it is not good, then I would try using the case on the trans. that came with the engine.
Buy a new front lower cluster gear bearing, do not get cheap, buy the best that you can afford, this bearing is the weak point of these transmissions, buy the best bearing you can find, do not buy one at the auto parts store, buy one from a company that just sells bearings, you will have to buy the size bearing that will fit in the case you are going to use, so take the old bearing with you when you go to buy one.
I am sorry to be so psycho about all this stuff, but so many people don't get it right, and then ask why it don't work when they get it back together, and all any of us can do is either ask you questions and hope you understand what we are asking, or shake are heads and ignore you.
You see that 84 transmission you have as a donor(Z24) likely had a 240mm clutch cover/disc, normally people would keep that transmission complete, and just put it on there earlier engine(Z22) thinking that the clutch arm, collar, and throwout bearing belong to this transmission, well it would not work, and they would have to pull it all back out.
If you are going to remove that flywheel to have it turned, you are going to need the monster impact, the grand daddy of them all, them bolts do not come out easy, if they will come off with a breaker bar, they were not put on right, personally if it looks decent, I would leave it alone.
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.
elminero67 wrote:But here is where it may get interesting: I couldn't help but pull the cover off the mystery SD23 transmission, hoping that I could see if the extra 1984 720 5-speed transmission I had laying around could be combined with the bellhousing from the SD23. I first pulled the cover off the 1984 720 transmission to see if it had the 56mm or the improved 60mm bearing on 1984 and later (iirc it changed during the year).
The 1984 720 transmission had the 56mm bearing. If I were to guess, the mystery SD23 transmission would have the 60mm bearing-BUT the SD23 has the 56mm and from all external appearances, looks exactly the same. hmmmmm. time to open her up and see what we have (or what dumps all over my workbench never to be reassembled!).
here is the bearing retainer case-exactly the same in the 1984 720, the SD23 mystery case and the 1982 SD22 5-speed (not shown).
And here are the innards of the mystery SD23 tranny (foreground) and the 1984 720. If anyone can spot any(internal) difference between the 1984 FS5W71B and the SD23 mystery transmission, I'm all ears cause to my casual glance it looks like a FS5W71B. If so, this is great news because the transmission truly looks like a 60,000 mile transmission. The gear oil looked as clear as from the factory and the magnetic drainplug did not have any metal particles. If so-I can hopefully swap on the 1984 tailshaft housing and have a very low milage transmission
The mystery transmission looks like a 4 speed to me, the 4 speed rear case is shaped different, it slopes towards the rear trans. mount sooner, as there is no 5th back there, 4 speeds have that plate with the six bolts on the top of the tailshaft housing.
Is the front cover on your old leaky transmission made of steel or aluminum?
Use the steel front cover, and I see that the bearings look good, I wonder where it was leaking, and what was making noise, maybe it has a bad rear bearing, I have seen that before also.
Last edited by waynosworld10 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.
The bearing retainer case for the SD22 is not cracked or damaged from what I can see, however, I have not removed it to check the bearings or back of it.All of the oil leaking from the SD22 transmission is either coming from the rear yoke or the speedometer cable-there is no leakage near the front of the case.
After a nearly three week stretch of sunless, foggy, 35 degree days, we had a couple of warm days-according to the weather channel we hit 70 degrees yesterday, only the fourth time in history we have hit 70 degrees in January!
So I threw the new SD23 into the Willys. Hooked up a battery and a Ghetto fabricated fuel system (the Sierra Mist bottle) and fired her up:
I still have air in the lines, but she did fire right up for about 30 seconds. Smoked like a steam train (black) but sounded good. As a footnote JDM's return policy only allows you 14 days to return it, and yesterday was day 14.
The SD23 has an interesting combination of parts in common with the earlier SD22 and the SD25. The glow plugs are identical to the SD22 ones-aka the "slow plugs." The starter is slightly different-I will have to switch to the SD22 starter as the SD23 is slightly larger and does not fit over my headers. As mentioned earlier, the IP pump is a Diesel Kiki pump, not the inline one used on the SD22. From what I've read, this pump should be easier to use with a turbo as it does not have the throttle body. On the other hand, I see two things about this pump that I don't like. First, the lack of a hand primer. I love the hand primer, it has saved my bacon several times!
Second, it requires electricity to operate-so if your battery dies, you are S.O.L. The #1 reason I went with the SD22 in my Willys was that I plan on using the "Jeep" in very remote areas, and the SD22 is one of the simpliest, most reliable motors ever made. So I may eventually switch back to the inline pump from the SD22 for the sake of simplicity and reliability.
