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Nissan diesel engines, and the people who love them
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Post Number:#1  PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:11 pm 
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Location: Point Roberts Washington
I have been considering a toyota diesel truck conversion for some time now, however I have noticed some of the diesel toyota engines have problems with the head , and are not as great as I once thought.
I started looking at nissan trucks and recently found a 1984 nissan diesel truck for sale , it is a parts truck with the sd 22 2.5 liter engine.
however , the truck was recently in a front ender and the radiator is crushed.
My question is does anyone know if the sd22 diesel 1985 model (in the old style nissan truck ) is the same engine used in the hardbody style diesel (1986 and newer)
I would like to do a diesel swap into a 1986 or newer nissan truck (new hardbody style) with a blown gas engine nissan truck. Has anybody done this yet successfully?
I know the toyota 22re gas motor and the 2L diesel share the same transmission on 1986 trucks( they are very similiar)
Is it the same situation with the nissan models,everything should just slide in and bolt up with minor modifications ?


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Post Number:#2  PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:02 pm 
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flyinphil wrote:
I started looking at nissan trucks and recently found a 1984 nissan diesel truck for sale , it is a parts truck with the sd 22 2.5 liter engine.


In 1984, only the SD25 was available. That is 2.5 liter and having 5 main bearings.

flyinphil wrote:
However, the truck was recently in a front ender and the radiator is crushed.

My question is does anyone know if the sd22 diesel 1985 model (in the old style nissan truck ) is the same engine used in the hardbody style diesel (1986 and newer)


The SD22 (2.2 liter)(3 main bearings) was available to the 720 truck in 1981,'82, & '83 first half year. The SD25 replaced in the later half of 1983 and on through the end of 1986. In USA, the SD25 was never fitted to the D21 "Hardbody". The exception is a SD25 in a few D21 in Canada, 1987.

D21 truck with SD25

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Passed 08May2008
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1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"


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 Post subject: re:SD25 or SD22
Post Number:#3  PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:57 pm 
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Location: Point Roberts Washington
I suppose you are right , this truck is an old body style king cab (not hardbody) with the SD25 diesel not the SD 22, it has 86180 original miles and apparently is no rust,which seems unbelieveably, it is mint grandpa owned garage kept , and I even checked the mileage to see it was correct ,it was driven under 1000 miles a year from 1996 to 2004,.
Having said that ,Is there any issues with these diesel engines I should be aware of? The truck apparently has a noisy rocker or lifter that is causing some concern, and needs some kind of hose connecting the rad to the oil filter cooling system. My understanding is that these engines have an inline mechanical fuel pump and dont have a timing chain or belt, they are gear driven just like my toyota landcruiser. If this is all true,I think it is a dream come true, sounds like it will go for a million miles before it needs attention ,even better than the toyota 2L diesel . However ,my understanding is that parts are hard to find, for example if the injection pump needs a rebuild , I would need to go to a specialty shop for parts.
I wonder if this is a bargain at $2700, any comments?


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Post Number:#4  PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:17 am 
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The SD engine has a different transmission bolt pattern than the Z2x engines (in particular, the starter is on the opposite side), so you will not be able to bolt the SD engine to a gasser transmission, end of story. There's a work-around; see the FS5W71x thread.

SD25s sold in the US have the Inline IP. This is not a particularly difficult IP to have serviced, but all IP shops are "specialty" shops (no general garage should be fiddling with the internals of IPs). The Inline IP is very durable, with the major weak area being the cowhide pneumatic diaphragm, which needs periodic oiling and replacement; it's not difficult to replace, requires no special tools or adjustment procedures.

Yes, the valvetrain and IP drive on the SD is gear-driven and requires no periodic drive maintenance, unlike the 2L or LD28.

Yes, the pushrod-driven valvetrain does require periodic adjustment, and they do get out of adjustment but not usually so much that you can actually hear them above the general cacophony of the engine. If you are hearing significant noise, I would suspect injector spray pattern and plan on having the injectors overhauled -- which on this era diesel is considered a periodic maintenance item. An injector that gets bad enough can wipe out a piston -- it dribbles, fires early, and overheats the aluminum piston.

The SD engine was used in non-automotive applications from 1963 to the 90's and parts are pretty widely available, but Nissan has begun NLA-ing parts very fast recently. In particular, the cooling system hoses will likely have to be found generically, esp. the oil cooler hose . . . (in green below) (click on image for larger) . . .
Image

. . . and the water pump-to-thermostat housing hose (the 180° hose under the radiator hose in this pic)
Image

While Nissan sold the SD25 in the D21 chassis in Canada for 1987 only and three members here own one, they are considered quite rare, and parts must be ferreted out -- Nissan can be difficult to deal with when trying to use "1987" and "SD25" together! Also, all 1987 IPs seem to be the VE-style, with completely different plumbing and hoses. But the short answer is that the SD25 can probably be made to fit into a D21 ("Hardbody") chassis, because Nissan did do it. If you really want to do that, it can be done.

Please update your Profile (click on "Profile" at the top of any page) and fill in at least the "Location" field, so I don't have to ask again: where are you located? If in the USA, I think $2700 for a crashed '84 SD25 is probably twice as much or more than what I'd consider paying, even for a low-miles engine. For that kind of money, I'd buy a core SD25 and either have it overhauled or do it myself. While the SD25 is a better-built engine than the older SD22, they are both rebuildable with hard parts still widely available.

I hope this helps.

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Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.


Last edited by asavage on Tue May 21, 2013 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Number:#5  PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:40 am 
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Location: Cochrane Alberta Canada
Just as a bit of a side note. I recently (April 2007) ordered a complete set of hoses for my SD25 from Nissan. I got all the hoses for the engine including the molded ones that run to the heater core. The hose highlighted in green by Al in the post I was also able to get, and they were evidently shipped from western Canada someplace. In the parts view shown I was able to obtain the 21308 hose, the 21308F washers, and the 21309A, banjo bolt. I was not able to get the 21309 Fitting as it was NLA but they have left the request in the system and I was advised that sometimes things just appear so I am hoping that will be the case for this. I realize that this fitting is slightly different in the SD25 as it has two outlets on it but the 21308 hose certainly looks the same. I don’t know if Nissan.ca has a different resource or not but might be worth a look into if you are stuck.
In regards to the 21308 hose, it failed on me last summer (06) in Vancouver. I had a spare one at home ( Alberta) which did me no good out there. I ordered one from a Nissan dealer in Vancouver BC and it was there is two days.
Paul

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Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN


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Post Number:#6  PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:07 am 
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I don't know why, but I've heard before that older Nissan parts are easier to get in Canada. Any of you Canadian guys care to run a few part numbers? I've also heard that if you have the part number, you can order any Nissan part through the motorsports division. Some of this stuff may still be available in Japan.

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83 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 5 speed, white, 130k miles. My original Maxima.
83 Maxima Sedan converted from gasser, LD28, 5 speed, 2 tone blue, 230k miles
82 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, 2 tone Gray/Silver, 140k miles
81 810 Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, rust, rust, and more rust!

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD


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Post Number:#7  PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:04 am 
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goglio704 wrote:
I've also heard that if you have the part number, you can order any Nissan part through the motorsports division. Some of this stuff may still be available in Japan.

For the sake of my investment (time & money) in the LD28 IP belt tensioner rebuild project, I kind of hope this isn't completely true.

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Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.


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Post Number:#8  PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:53 am 
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I had heard that just recently. I need to contact the individual and get some more details. I guess I could call a dealer and ask about ordering through the motorsports division. I'd guess there are only a few dealers in major markets that do much of it. BTW, I still think the tensioner project is worthwhile, but it is easy for me to have that opinion. :wink:

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Matt B.

83 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 5 speed, white, 130k miles. My original Maxima.
83 Maxima Sedan converted from gasser, LD28, 5 speed, 2 tone blue, 230k miles
82 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, 2 tone Gray/Silver, 140k miles
81 810 Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, rust, rust, and more rust!

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD


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Post Number:#9  PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:37 am 
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If you can give me a couple of part numbers I will check with the guy I use at one of the dealers in Calgary. They most times like to have VIN number and I just give them the owners card ( credit card like thing that came with the truck) and he plugs in it that way. I recently orderd a throttle cable and it had to come from Japan. It should be here soon.

Al
If you have the part number for that idler, or the make year model that it was for perhaps just for grins I can check availability.

Paul

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Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN


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Post Number:#10  PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:01 pm 
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That is a lot of information on the diesel engine, I appreciate the knowledge on the topic, I forgot to update you all on what happened, just to clear things up the wrecked 84 nissan diesel sold a couple days ago, but I have been looking at another one that is supposedly mint condition, 86000 miles,etc.
The owner wont sell less than $2700 cdn which is now about 2800 us converted. It seems alot for a 24 yrs old vehicle ,but it does have an appeal, to those who know about diesel trucks.
I myself recently purchased 3 toyota diesel trucks from Japanese auction ,the latest being a Landcruiser with a 3B 3400 cc 4 cylinder diesel.
It however has a rotary pump, and on another forum I asked some Japanese domestic market owners about low sulphur diesel, I found out that the new ULS diesel lacks lubricity and it can cause problems with rotary pumps,ie they leak ,seals inside crack etc. It has become important for me to research the SD22 and SD 25 nissan engines because I am becoming more and more concerned about toyota diesel problems, recently I have thought about importing a mitsubishi delica van with the 2.5 turbo diesel from Japan as my next venture.
I am looking to register in the US a canadian nissan or toyota left hand drive truck because as a US resident I can not import my Japanese Right Hand Drive diesel trucks through into the good ol USA because of primitive restrictions on DOT EPA etc. Basically in a nutshell All I am allowed to legally import into USA is a North American left hand drive diesel truck from Canada .
I have been searching for 2-3 years to find an eligible vehicle worthwhile my effort to import it ,and then this nissan king cab diesel came up for grabs.
Hope that clears things up as to why I have gotten to a point where I am thinking about engine swapping toyota and nissan trucks.Basically because it is an inexpensive way to get a diesel in a truck,however if this nissan truck is what the owner says it is , maybe it is worth it after all ?.


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Post Number:#11  PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:36 pm 
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A bit of history on the US diesel lubricity thing . . .

Until Sep-07, the USA had pretty much the laxest (is that a word?), dirtiest road diesel in the developed countries. I forget what the limit for sulfur was pre-91, but in 1991 era we got Low Sulfur diesel ("LSD"), limited to 500 parts per million of sulfur. The refining process used at that time did strip lubricity components from the final product as part of removing sulfur to that level. Many injection pumps failed earlier than they would have otherwise.

In Sep-07, the phase-in to Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel ("USLD") occurred in the US, with nearly all retail sales now being this cleaner fuel, with the level of sulfur capped at 15 ppm. The refiners no longer use the same process to reduce the sulfur level that they used to, and the detriment to petrodiesel lubricity is not nearly the problem that it was formerly.

The bigger problem is that ULSD is missing some of the lighter volatiles that helped keep certain sealing compounds pliable. The effect is that running ULSD is encouraging injection pumps to leak. This is especially problematic with the Bosch VE-style distributor IPs ("rotary"), with the high pressure head o-ring, upper housing cover ("governor cover") and front shaft seals being the foremost failures. Because a lot of small diesels run either a Bosch VE distributor IP or a licensed version mfgr'd by others (NipponDenso in the Toyotas, Kiki-Diesel in the Nissans), this affects a lot of our older diesels.

One short-term fix -- which almost no one will do -- is to use a lubricity additive. I say this with scepticism because in order for this to work, you have to apply the additive consistently.

The long-term fix (for seals leakage) is to rebuild the IP using modern elastomer materials (ie Viton) and possibly different feed pump slippers.

The Inline IPs are nearly indestructible. The WVO folks have demonstrated that the rest of the engine will die long before the IP will give up, in the MB, Dodge (Cummins) and Nissan SD engines.

The VE IPs are relatively fragile. Besides the leakage problem, this design requires accurate housing pressurization to perform timing control (this is unlike the common Stanadyne/Roosa IPs that use housing pressurization to do a crude, two-step cold advance). When the feed pump on a VE IP starts to crap out, the entire timing curve retards. Eventually the IP won't advance at all, and after that it won't even pull fuel from the tank (which is why I've got a Toyota 2L IP in for rebuilding right now). In this case, you can get the engine to run by using an external lift pump -- say, an electric pump -- but because the IP cannot advance the timing, the engine lacks power and smokes badly.

Both IPs are "good". Both can be adapter for proper operation with a turbo. One is more tolerant of lack of maintenance and poor fuel -- "alternative" or otherwise. All are expensive to overhaul.

Hope this helps.

_________________
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.


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Post Number:#12  PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:24 pm 
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That is interesting ,it sounds more and more like the nissan diesel is superior to the toyota diesel, so I probably wouldn t have any issues like leaking IP issues on a diesel SD 25 with 86000 miles?
Is there still people out there running these little nissan rigs with 500,000 + original miles? Do you think this truck is a bargain for under $3000.

Also in regards to the toyota diesel (specifically the 3B), If I run canola oil 5% in my newer 1988 model cruiser with a rotary IP will it help lubricate it enough ? (pre 1987 Landcruiser had inline pump) Another option somebody told me about was mix pure bio diesel 5% in to my tank.
Which is better?Currently the gas station is out of bio diesel but I could find some canola oil. Also somebody mentioned a 1/2 pint of transmission fluid in the diesel every tank ,is that an option also?
which is better? Thanks for the advice


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Post Number:#13  PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:38 pm 
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We are way off-topic here . . .

I cannot speak to the lubricity benefits of adding vegetable oil to petrodiesel.

A lot of old-timers used to use ATF as a fuel additive. In construction equipment, it seems to at least not made a big drop in the life of the engines. Whether ATF has any benefit as a fuel additive, I don't know. ATF and crankcase lube contain additives that in theory would not be a good thing to have in a combustion chamber in quantity. But you can run a diesel engine just fine without an air filter too, and there are people that claim theirs have been running without an air filter just fine for years [shrug]. You can find someone to tout the benefits of most anything, up to and including coffee enemas. Whether they have a benefit cannot always be proven satisfactorily for all who want to try something else/different.

People put an amazing assortment of stuff in their fuel tanks (both gasser and diesel) and make equally amazing claims.

Biodiesel (meeting ASTM specifications D-5761) has been proven (I am too lazy to cite the reference right now) to provide superiour lubricity to petrodiesel, both pre-LSD or current. The figures I remember from three years ago when I first looked it up were that a 2% BD mix (that is, 98% petrodiesel) quadruples the lubricity of the mixture. It takes very little biodiesel to provide a lot of lubricity.

Canola oil is not biodiesel, though biodiesel can be made from canola oil. There are verifiable Bad Things that happen when you use untransesterified oils as fuel in a diesel engine. I'm sure Philip will come along soon and point you to my earlier diatribe about WVO/SVO vs BD.

If you want to continue to discuss fuels, you will want to start another thread over in the Off-Topic forum.

I'm going to stretch my neck out an venture that the Toyota 1L/2L is a more advanced engine (from an engineering standpoint) than the SD22/25. The 2L was available with a turbo, has an OHC design (although with one of those terrible belts that seemed designed mostly to definitively destroy the engine when it fails), and has a flatter torque curve than the SD22 at least. I've never driven an SD without the pneumatic governor system, but the few I've driven with them drive pretty funny.

_________________
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.


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 Post subject: Re: re:SD25 or SD22
Post Number:#14  PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:26 pm 
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flyinphil wrote:
I suppose you are right ... SNIP. -Having said that ,Is there any issues with these diesel engines I should be aware of? -SNIP-
I wonder if this is a bargain at $2700, any comments?


My turn. :wink:

1. These are OLD Datsun/Nissan trucks with diesel engines. Any "issue" that was not a problem ... become "issues" due to age. Hahhahah. A lot of them were sold and it's amazing just how many are still around. And we're doin' our best here to keep the diesels alive. :wink:

2. There really are no problems in the Toyota diesel trucks. Why? Because few of them were ever sold ... and most of them have faded away.

_________________
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"


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Post Number:#15  PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:29 pm 
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asavage wrote:
When the feed pump on a VE IP starts to crap out, the entire timing curve retards. Eventually the IP won't advance at all, and after that it won't even pull fuel from the tank (which is why I've got a Toyota 2L IP in for rebuilding right now).


Just got the 1986 Toyota's IP back from the rebuilder: $630. They thoughtfully provided the old parts that were replaced.
Image



Take a look at the feed pump. The rotor:
Image



The pump housing ring:
Image Image

Pitting only on one 90° segment . . . water damage.

Here's a pic of a new feed pump I just stole from someone (the pic, not the pump):
Image

_________________
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.


Last edited by asavage on Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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