Honda Generators EU6500is

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asavage
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Honda Generators EU6500is

#1

Post by asavage »

Whilst the Honda Shop Manual for the EU7000is is available as a free PDF, the Shop Manual for the EU6500is isn't, and the wiring is significantly different between the two.

Between three households we run three of the EU6500is and one EU7000. I recently bought and installed a four-function aftermarket wireless remote kit from Pinellas Power Products on the EU6500is at my mother's place.

The EU6500is Owner's Manual (pg. 29) states:
EU6500is Owner's Manual, page No. 29 wrote:"If you wish to use the EcoThrottle system, turn the EcoThrottle switch to the ON position after the engine has warmed up for 2 or 3 minutes.
The Pinellas Power Products' ("PPP") 4-function wireless remote kit can control EcoThrottle mode, and at startup it defaults to Standard Run mode. The idea, I guess, is that you start the gen via the wireles remote, then wait a couple of minutes, then press the remote's EcoThrottle button to toggle the gen to EcoThrottle mode.

My mother knows how to start and stop and refuel her gen, but at 79 I try to automate what can be automated for her. So, I installed a time delay relay (TDR) module that runs the gen in Standard Run mode for 2.5 minutes, the switches to EcoThrottle mode automatically.

This gen series comes equipped with a socket for a four-wire wired remote control, into which the PPP' kit plugs, to control ON-Start and Off functions. To enable the factory-supplied optional wired remote control, you turn the gen's keyswitch to "REMOTE" instead of "ON", and remote control socket goes live. The ECU then looks for a hot signal to come back from the wired remote, on either the START wire or STOP wire (the ECU handles activating the starter, and turning it off too).

This factory remote control socket has a fourth wire that's to activate a Pilot Lamp ("PL") on the factory remote control. Without having a gen actually in my possession, I had to assume that that wire would go hot when the engine was running, and I wired my TDR to trigger from an assumed signal on that line. Turns out, the PL line is actually a signal sink (ground) not a source, so I got to rework my wiring :(

Things got clearer when I bought the Honda EU6500is Shop Manual, Eighth edition, 61Z2500E2 for $44 etc., and actually laid my hands on an EU6500is and started backprobing connectors.

Below is a GIF of the factory remote control wiring diagram, from a heavily-chopped down full gen wiring diagram. It shows Pilot Lamp operation, but does not show pressing the START or STOP switches. In practice, a START request signal would have had to have occurred between slides 6 & 7, but the idea is to show how the PL works, not the START/STOP, since those are so simple and straightforward:

Given:
  • Ign. Switch = REMOTE
Then:
  • To START, connect 12v+ from remote connector pin 4 to pin 6.
  • To STOP, connect 12v+ from remote connector pin 4 to pin 3.
Honda EU6500is remote control wiring diagram (simplified)
Honda EU6500is remote control wiring diagram (simplified)
Remote_Wiring_Diagram_GIF_01.gif (436.25 KiB) Viewed 2504 times
When the engine is running, the ECU provides a ground on remote connector pin 1 for the remote box's LED. I do not know the current sink capability provided by the ECU, but I would assume it's very low (ie don't connect an incandescent lamp of any significant wattage to that line, use a driver transistor or small relay).

[later]

There's a diagram similar to this in the Shop Manual, page 2-42, though it doesn't have my pretty lines, and doesn't explain how it works.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
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asavage
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Honda Generators EU6500is: remote wired connector

#2

Post by asavage »

I was surprised to find that the plug and terminals for the EU6500is wired remote connector is apparently not documented publicly -- several hours with Google failed to turn up any information about them.

AFAICT, every EU6500is was shipped with the wired remote socket occupied with a matching plastic plug (unpopulated with terminals).

Honda EU6500is wired remote male plastic plug, supplied with every new gen.
Honda EU6500is wired remote male plastic plug, supplied with every new gen.
Connector_Honda_EU6500is_Wired_Remote_plug_01b.png (232.16 KiB) Viewed 2503 times


There are lots of folks (primarily on eBay) selling the plastic plugs & terminals, but I didn't need the plastic plug . . .
Honda EU6500is wired remote male plastic plug and female terminals.
Honda EU6500is wired remote male plastic plug and female terminals.
Remote_Control_receptacles_01b.jpg (97.65 KiB) Viewed 2503 times

I perused many connector catalogs, using physical measurements of the components I had, and was about to give up and buy one of those connector kits from eBay, when I stumbled into the correct terminal, generically called Sumitomo "090".
Sumitomo "090" terminals.
Sumitomo "090" terminals.
Terminal_Sumitomo_090_01-1b.png (621.04 KiB) Viewed 2503 times

I purchased (20) CID203-2.3-FS2-L (equivalent to Sumitomo 1500-0110) @ $0.48 ea. Shipping was more than the pieces, which is why I bought so many. At the time, I only needed one.

ConnectorID CID203-2.3-FS2-L terminal, sub for Sumitomo 1500-0110.
ConnectorID CID203-2.3-FS2-L terminal, sub for Sumitomo 1500-0110.
Terminal_CID203-2.3-FS2-L_01b.png (449.3 KiB) Viewed 2503 times

While these fit the mating male terminals in the gen, the wire range listed for the CID part is 0.85mm (~20 AWG) but the real Sumitomo part specs at 28-16 AWG. I have a nice Pressmaster crimping tool, but even with the wire doubled over to increase the total thickness, and using the 22-16 AWG die slot, it could not make a secure crimp on 22 AWG with these terminals; I crimped, then soldered, which is acceptable for me.

Pressmaster Crimp Tool
Pressmaster Crimp Tool
Pressmaster_Crimping_Tool_01b.jpg (649.47 KiB) Viewed 2503 times
Not so great crimp.
Not so great crimp.
Pressmaster_Crimping_Tool_03b.jpg (1.97 MiB) Viewed 2503 times
Crimped, then soldered.
Crimped, then soldered.
Pressmaster_Crimping_Tool_05b.jpg (1.23 MiB) Viewed 2503 times
[Edit May2022: I've since purchased another die for the Pressmaster, 4300-3150, which covers open barrel connectors 18-26 AWG; I'll be trying that die next time I have to crimp these 22 AWG terminals, as the 4300-3146, which is rated for 10-22 AWG, really didn't work here.]

Referring to the previous post above, I used one of these terminals to add an additional wire the the Pinellas Power Products' 4-function wireless remote's harness plug, adding a line for the Pilot Lamp signal. As that turned out to not be a voltage feed (rather, it's a current sink), I didn't end up needing or using this, but after all that work to acquire some, and having found that they do fit the mating plug and work, I figured I'd document it, because I found nothing about this when I searched for exactly this info.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
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asavage
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Time Delay Relay Module: DROK XY-WJ01

#3

Post by asavage »

Time Delay Relays have gotten really inexpensive recently. I bought a couple of DROK XY-WJ01 modules for $13 that, while not universal (they can only perform a handful of programmable functions) are pretty nice for the price, and have a reasonable reputation.

DROK Time Delay Relay module, XY-WJ01
DROK Time Delay Relay module, XY-WJ01
TDR_DROK_XY-WJ01_01b.png (976.57 KiB) Viewed 2502 times
DROK Time Delay Relay module, XY-WJ01
DROK Time Delay Relay module, XY-WJ01
TDR_DROK_XY-WJ01_02b.jpg (198.62 KiB) Viewed 2502 times
DROK Time Delay Relay module, XY-WJ01
DROK Time Delay Relay module, XY-WJ01
TDR_DROK_XY-WJ01_03b.jpg (260.83 KiB) Viewed 2502 times

As typical, the instructions are fairly difficult to understand, but they're printed nicely and don't have a lot of glaring errors, just poorly translated English with odd nomenclature and obscure (to me) parameter references. I wanted a One-Shot function (upon trigger, output relay closes for programmed length of time, then opens. Retriggering during output phase does not affect the running timer). That function is the default for this TDR!

Its input range is fairly wide. The quality is quite reasonable for the price. One downside is that the trigger connector is JST 3P and the TDR is not supplied with a mating harness, so you have to buy it separately. I bought uxcell 2S 3Pin Female -XH Lipo Balance Wire Extension Lead Charger Plug Terminal Cable 26AWG 30cm 10Pcs for $8, and while I didn't really need (10) harnesses, they worked well.

uxcell JST 3P female connector harness
uxcell JST 3P female connector harness
JST_3P_Female_Connector_Harness_01b.png (1.72 MiB) Viewed 2502 times
uxcell JST 3P female connector harness
uxcell JST 3P female connector harness
JST_3P_Female_Connector_Harness_02b.jpg (45.11 KiB) Viewed 2502 times
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
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asavage
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Location: Oak Harbor, Wash.
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Re: Honda Generators EU6500is

#4

Post by asavage »

The EcoThrottle circuit on the EU6500is is reversed from typical, though the EU6500is Shop Manual, page 6-6, shows this incorrectly. The EU7000is Shop Manual has the correct description:

EcoThrottle switch ON = Open circuit
EcoThrottle switch OFF = closed circuit


Honda EU7000is EcoThrottle switch testing (from EU7000is Shop Manual, page 10-7).
Honda EU7000is EcoThrottle switch testing (from EU7000is Shop Manual, page 10-7).
EU7000is_EcoThrottle_Switch_testing_01b.png (188.41 KiB) Viewed 2494 times

Below is the incorrect description from the EU6500is Shop Manual:
Honda EU6500is Shop Manual, page 6-6, with incorrect EcoThrottle switch testing description.
Honda EU6500is Shop Manual, page 6-6, with incorrect EcoThrottle switch testing description.
Honda_EU6500is_FSM_6-6-1b.png (86.31 KiB) Viewed 2494 times

This isn't confusing at all!

So, when you want to run the gen at Standard Run speed (~3600) at startup, to bring it up to temperature as the Owner's Manual asks, you have to close this circuit (turn EcoThrottle switch to OFF). When you want to run the gen at EcoThrottle (~2400 RPM at light load), you have to open this circuit.

Therefore, the Time Delay Relay (TDR) needs to close this circuit for 2-3 minutes, then open it. If the EcoThrottle switch is left in ON (open circuit), then the TDR can do its thing OK. We just wire the TDR in parallel across the EcoThrottle switch.

Ah, but then there's the wireless remote: it defaults to Standard Run mode (circuit closed). That can't be overridden by the TDR's SPST relay, regardless of wiring. And the wireless remote's instructions have it wired in series with the EcoThrottle switch, with instructions to leave the switch OFF (closed) so the wireless remote can open it later.

The wireless remote uses Form C relays (SPDT), and all outputs are brought out to the edge of the receiver's PCB -- nice design work! -- so I elected to move its EcoThrottle output wiring from the NC to NO circuit of the corresponding relay.

Then, I wired it across the EcoThrottle switch in parallel. And the TDR also parallel. With all three units (switch, TDR, and wireless remote receiver) all able to close the circuit independently, as long as the EcoThrottle switch is left in ON (open), the TDR can run the gen in Standard Run mode for 2-3 minutes, the open the circuit; at that point, the wireless remote can toggle EcoThrottle mode, and so can the stock EcoThrottle switch.

So, that's what I did.

The EcoThrottle switch has 3/16" spade (Quick Connect) male terminals. In order to parallel three devices, I ganged up piggyback connectors. Trying to locate 3/16" piggyback quick connects is a bit of a search. I landed on TE Connectivity/AMP 1217151-1 (Cut Strip), minimum qty. (100) @ $0.17 ea. I used four, so I have a few spares ;)
EcoThrottle switch 3/16" Quick Connect piggyback connectors.
EcoThrottle switch 3/16" Quick Connect piggyback connectors.
EcoThrottle_Switch_Piggyback_Quick_Connects_02b.jpg (1014.17 KiB) Viewed 2494 times
EcoThrottle switch 3/16" Quick Connect piggyback connectors.
EcoThrottle switch 3/16" Quick Connect piggyback connectors.
EcoThrottle_Switch_Piggyback_Quick_Connects_04b.jpg (675.84 KiB) Viewed 2494 times
EcoThrottle switch 3/16" Quick Connect piggyback connectors, installed on switch's back.
EcoThrottle switch 3/16" Quick Connect piggyback connectors, installed on switch's back.
EcoThrottle_Switch_Piggyback_Quick_Connects_03b.jpg (1.24 MiB) Viewed 2494 times
No gen wiring is cut or modified. All three switches work independently to enable Standard Run mode.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
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asavage
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Posts: 5431
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Location: Oak Harbor, Wash.
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Oil Drain Valve for GX390 in EU6500iS/EU7000iS

#5

Post by asavage »

I wanted to install an EZ-Drain on one of our Honda EU6500iS generators, but it wasn't as straight-forward as I'd hoped.

EZ-Drain EZ-109 Drain Valve M12x1.5
EZ-Drain EZ-109 Drain Valve M12x1.5
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_16b.jpg (3.05 MiB) Viewed 1761 times
EZ-Drain EZ-109 Drain Valve M12x1.5
EZ-Drain EZ-109 Drain Valve M12x1.5
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_34b.jpg (11.31 KiB) Viewed 1761 times

Problem #1: The Honda GX390 engine on the EU6500is/EU7000is has a plastic-and-batting sound damping baffle bolted to the block around and above the oil drain:


Honda EU6500iS, oil drain/fill access side panel open, showing sound baffle on GX390.
Honda EU6500iS, oil drain/fill access side panel open, showing sound baffle on GX390.
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_33b.jpg (202.51 KiB) Viewed 1761 times

Honda EU6500iS, oil drain on GX390.
Honda EU6500iS, oil drain on GX390.
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_01b.jpg (1.27 MiB) Viewed 1761 times

Honda EU6500iS, oil drain/fill side panel removed, showing sound baffle on GX390.
Honda EU6500iS, oil drain/fill side panel removed, showing sound baffle on GX390.
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_05b.jpg (1.69 MiB) Viewed 1761 times


According to EZ-Drain, the typical GX390 is supposed to use their EZ-109, which has a M12x1.5 thread to fit the block in place of the OEM plug. That might work on other GX390s, but due to the sound baffle, it definitely doesn't fit on this model generator: its OD is too large to clear this baffle. EZ-Drain sells an extension (A109) for this situation (for BMW, etc.), and I bought one and tried it, but The A109 has an even larger OD, so that' was not a fix.

Problem #2: Even with the sound baffle completely removed, the EZ-109 still doesn't fit the GX390 due to the counterbore on the block being smaller than the o-ring mating surface OD:

Honda EU6500iS, oil drain counterbore on GX390.
Honda EU6500iS, oil drain counterbore on GX390.
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_06-1b.jpg (263.49 KiB) Viewed 1761 times
EZ-Drain EZ-109 Drain Valve M12x1.5 and A109 Extension M12x1.5
EZ-Drain EZ-109 Drain Valve M12x1.5 and A109 Extension M12x1.5
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_20b.jpg (1.05 MiB) Viewed 1761 times

Since I had the A109 in hand, I even used a lathe and turned down the OD of the A109 extension as far as I felt safe, but it still would not clear the sound baffle:

EZ-Drain A109 Extension, prior to lathe work
EZ-Drain A109 Extension, prior to lathe work
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_20-1b.jpg (148.59 KiB) Viewed 1761 times

EZ-Drain A109 Extension, turned down
EZ-Drain A109 Extension, turned down
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_24b.jpg (331.05 KiB) Viewed 1761 times

I was planning to use one or two 12mm ID fibre washers to shim it out, but ended up going a different route . . . What did work was using a different model EZ-Drain, the EZ-115 (1/4" MNPT) and an adapter, 1/4" NPT-to-12mm x 1.5 x 35mm long, from ThreadToolSupply, Adaptall 9635S-12-L06-04. That adapter is small enough OD to clear the sound baffle. It's a bit longer than the image implies.

[A similar adapter does NOT work, it's too fat as well.]

Adaptall adapter, 1/4" NPT-to-12mm x 1.5 x 35mm long, 9635S-12-L06-04
Adaptall adapter, 1/4" NPT-to-12mm x 1.5 x 35mm long, 9635S-12-L06-04
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_32b.png (333.23 KiB) Viewed 1761 times
EZ-Drain EZ-115 + Adaptall 9635S-12-L06-04
EZ-Drain EZ-115 + Adaptall 9635S-12-L06-04
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_28b.jpg (3.44 MiB) Viewed 1761 times
EZ-Drain EZ-115 + Adaptall 9635S-12-L06-04
EZ-Drain EZ-115 + Adaptall 9635S-12-L06-04
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_29b.jpg (3.06 MiB) Viewed 1761 times


I like good quality fibre drain washers, so I bought some BelMetric GF12X20 M12 ID x M20 OD washers.

Fibre washer, M12 ID x M20 OD, BelMetric GF12X20
Fibre washer, M12 ID x M20 OD, BelMetric GF12X20
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_02-1b.jpg (387.19 KiB) Viewed 1761 times
EZ-Drain EZ-115 + Adaptall 9635S-12-L06-04, installed.
EZ-Drain EZ-115 + Adaptall 9635S-12-L06-04, installed.
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_30-1b.jpg (347.37 KiB) Viewed 1761 times
EZ-Drain EZ-115 + Adaptall 9635S-12-L06-04, installed.
EZ-Drain EZ-115 + Adaptall 9635S-12-L06-04, installed.
Honda_EU6500is_EZ-Drain_30b.jpg (1.49 MiB) Viewed 1761 times
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
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