ka24e to sd25t 4x4 swap

SD diesels were widely available in the US in the 1981-86 Datsun/Nissan 720 pickups, and in Canada through '87 in the D21 pickup.

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ehtrain
Posts:141
Joined:8 years ago
Location:regina, sk

#31

Post by ehtrain » 7 years ago

well good news the other block rough honed out pretty nice. no rust left and cylinder isn't to pitted up.

measure out .002 taper and about .0005-.001 outta round across the board.
.006 at top over and .008 at bottom. Not to shabby for 400,000kms or w/e. deck cleaned up pretty nice and liner protrusion is still ok. it would for sure run.

ehtrain
Posts:141
Joined:8 years ago
Location:regina, sk

#32

Post by ehtrain » 7 years ago

well we (my machinist and i) have found the cause of the compression loss. why I was getting 350psi at 7 gauge pumps

the after market piston is approx .015-.017 shorter then oem piston. Plus we left the block deck untouched and pressed in new sleeves. My measurement for piston protrusion was -.011 from liner with after market pistons. so this would bring me back into +.003-.004 max protruding.

so the aftermarket pistons I purchased are "topped" pistons. meaning the after market has taken some off the top of the piston crown to allow a fresh machined block surface/liner/ counterbore.

as we also measure the top valve relief areas and piston crown thicknesses. the aftermarket pistons had -.003 more valve recession from the oem. and thinner crown.

I will post detailed pictures of oem pistons and post the rest of the pics from the aftermarkets. visually they are very similair, but looking closer they are very different haha. the oem pistons appear to be made out very high quality materials over the aftermarket

still attempting to figure out cause of liner cracking. machinist has located a different company to purchase these from. the australain ones were semi finished and have a very long flange relief. while these new ones are apparently a finished sleeve. so we will see the quality differences and I will post pictures.

so for furture reference to anyone adding or swapping pistons, rebuilding w/e. be aware after market pistons may be topped. which requires machining of the blocks deck to almost minimum height spec.

ehtrain
Posts:141
Joined:8 years ago
Location:regina, sk

#33

Post by ehtrain » 7 years ago

here's as close to a side by side shot I could find for pistons. aftermarket on the left and oem on the right. I drew an arrow where the noticeable difference was visually. I walnut blasted the oem pistons to clean them up.
Image

some more oem pics
Image
Image


the machine shop found found me Teiken brand cylinder liners. The manufacture quality appears to be much better then the previously installed ones, the counter bore flange appears very similar to oem. The material also appears to be more like a stainless.

my overall opinion of roodogs 4wd spares is as basicly this. He has very good customer service quality and is very helpful. However.... his parts seem to be questionable. Id say buyer beware haha.

I admit the fault in not measuring the oem piston hieght to the aftermarket. I should have but I doubted the condition of any of the pistons if you look back at my pictures lol. hitting them with a sledge hammer and wood to remove or full of cracks.... surprisingly hitting them sledge to get them out they're still in usable shape haha. BUT in my own defense Roo Dogs 4wd spares didn't supply any info relating to such a height difference and the oem manual doesn't even refer to topped pistons... or the fact you would have to machine everything in the bottom end, then hone the old cylinders clean and install your new rings and pistons to check protrusion hieghts. THEN you'd have to take it all apart again and yank the liners out... deck the block/recut counter bore then put new sleeves in.

as far as anyone can break down the possibilities of the liner failure.... roo dogs says its improper install, the machine shop thinks it was the wrong/bad head gasket the first round, and I think its just poor quality liners or the machinist missed a tiny angle change in the factory counter bores.

so either way the machinist is going to recheck all the counter bores and straightness of everything.

so now ill have teikin sleeves, oem pistons with hastings rings, oem headgasket, the valves/spring are roo dogs parts, the engine bearings were all NDC branded... so hopefully they're not a second rate.

the rings roo dogs supplied me with are riken. im not sure if i should re-use the rings or use the hastings. the hastings oil rings are different. otherwise they both appear(ed) quality any suggestions???
Last edited by ehtrain 7 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

Nissan_Ranger
Posts:266
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Location:Canada

#34

Post by Nissan_Ranger » 7 years ago

I never re-use old rings in new/refurbished holes. It is virtually always the worst of false economy...

N_R
The old 'six gun' was as popular as the cell phone in its time and just as annoying when it went off in the Theater.

ehtrain
Posts:141
Joined:8 years ago
Location:regina, sk

#35

Post by ehtrain » 7 years ago

ya im on your side. I was worried about the liner fracture... anything would go into the rings. plus they are "broke-in" on the other set of pistons.

the hastings rings do appear to be very nice quality. I wonder who makes the oem sets for nissan

Nissan_Ranger
Posts:266
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Canada

#36

Post by Nissan_Ranger » 7 years ago

Hastings rings are good rings... When I put pistons in, I look at the old pistons and see which side and edge take the wear. When I set the new rings, I keep the oil ring gaps spaced at the angle recommended by Hastings AND put the gaps AWAY from the surface of the piston that shows the wear; that is, on the opposite side of the piston... In almost 40 years of building engines, I have never had a ring failure. In addition, I always make sure that no ring gaps are directly above one another.
The old 'six gun' was as popular as the cell phone in its time and just as annoying when it went off in the Theater.

greyfoxxca
Posts:28
Joined:14 years ago

#37

Post by greyfoxxca » 7 years ago

good information for everyone who works on engines here guys. I shudder when I think about the $ you have thrown at this project.
Good luck

George

ehtrain
Posts:141
Joined:8 years ago
Location:regina, sk

#38

Post by ehtrain » 7 years ago

i checked the ring gaps on the pistons and there so minimal difference around the piston I couldn't tell where the factory gaps were and all the old rings came off on pieces before I media blasted them. So no way to tell where the gaps were

ya I don't even really want to look at it anymore. it makes me sick thinking about it. I got the block back with new liners got everything setup for assembly. found my cam and lifter faces have noticeable abuse on several where lifter faces aren't as perfectly smooth as they were. very upsetting. also I see that the main bearings primary cover layer is already worn off in the thrust regions on the main caps.... so im going to take that as the 0-40 synthetic oil is to thin for winter and im also guessing this must have cause the lifter/cam scuffing.

but fuck it. its going together as im still pretty sure these new liners will crack for some reason. my guess is it will blow up when sucks a liner in before the cam and lifters wear out. but who know the other cam i have is in poor shape and needs a regrind.... and theres so much rust pitting on most of the matching lifters its not worth swapping any in.

i wonder how long the cam and lifters will go? if it runs long enough maybe i can price out a slightly performance turbo cam regrind and new set of lifters.

oh and even though I have all the turbo parts on the bench im leaving those off for this install still.... if it lasts awhile maybe i'll stick the turbo on.

oh and to those who may buy a parts master new water pump for an sd25. it's .25in to short. factory is 4.5in from mounting plate and aftermarket new was 4.25in so the pulley hits the pump housing and lines up with nothing. I had to send mine away to be rebuilt now... so waiting on that.


anyone know of anywhere that sells a federal mogul or fel-pro branded gasket set for sd25? oem headgaskets are pricy and can't get all the engines gaskets. or anyone that does awsome regrind work on cams?

ehtrain
Posts:141
Joined:8 years ago
Location:regina, sk

#39

Post by ehtrain » 7 years ago

well I'm happy to report it is now running.

the pistons have clearly made a massive difference for power and starting. as the rings break in the truck runs better and has more power. the engine is also significantly quieter running from before.

got about 80km on the truck now. well see what happens!

Nissan_Ranger
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Location:Canada

#40

Post by Nissan_Ranger » 7 years ago

Good to hear. :o
The old 'six gun' was as popular as the cell phone in its time and just as annoying when it went off in the Theater.

ehtrain
Posts:141
Joined:8 years ago
Location:regina, sk

#41

Post by ehtrain » 7 years ago

ok well I've got almost 3000kms on the truck now. enough to see that is running significantly better then previous. I managed to grab a baseline for fuel economy on the highway I was getting about 9L/100km to about 12L/100km which is about 20-25mpg us gallons.

the truck has 31x10.5x15 tires and 4.37 gears. Stock trans gear ratio is same as for 4cyl gas as the diesel.

no turbo: 4th gear egt's approx 800F. only gear I could reasonably drive in on the highway due to under power and larger tires for the NA diesel. In 5th gear Id see egt's of 1000-1300f and the truck would struggle to keep any speed. Got 20-25mpg on new motor but that would likely improve yet as the engine breaks in more

TURBO: wow is all I can say. Doesn't seem like much power to the butt dyno, but the really low torque rpms seem to have shifted up a few rpms which may be not a bad thing. MASSIVE egt drop also in 5th now is 600-800F, which is about 500F drop. Now the truck also does not struggle to speed up at all and has no problems keeping speed in 5th. this is at 5-6psi with intercooler and no fuel has been touched. just a turbo bolted on. in 4th gear also see temps of 600f which is about 200f less

I got this turbo off ebay, as it was the smallest universl fit I could find that allowed easy clocking and easy aftermarket selection of parts and add ons TURBO USED

will post many new pictures soon!!!

ehtrain
Posts:141
Joined:8 years ago
Location:regina, sk

#42

Post by ehtrain » 7 years ago

here's an engine parts website that's made in china a friend on here sent me. weird the overhaul kit picture looks oddly familiar. the td27 gasket kit is $25. for a complete set it cant be that good.... but for the paper gaskets it might be ok.

directly to sd25 stuff http://forklift.partswecan.com/engine-p ... 5&sort=20a

or

http://www.partswecan.com/

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asavage
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Location:Duvall, Wash.
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#43

Post by asavage » 7 years ago

A local fellow is in the process of converting his 1982 720 SD22 to SD25, and he's rebuilding the SD25.

He has found a North American supplier of Alfin* (ALumnium Ferrous INsert)





From the web:
ALumnium Ferrous INsert PistonIt is a bi-metrallic piston, consisting of a body of aluminum alloy and a wear resistant cast iron inserted for the top grove. The top grove is fitted with a steel chrome in land ring. Which will give a enhanced piston life.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
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#44

Post by asavage » 7 years ago

A local fellow is in the process of converting his 1982 720 SD22 to SD25, and he's rebuilding the SD25.

He has found a North American supplier of Alfin* (ALumnium Ferrous INsert)





From the web:
ALumnium Ferrous INsert PistonIt is a bi-metrallic piston, consisting of a body of aluminum alloy and a wear resistant cast iron inserted for the top grove. The top grove is fitted with a steel chrome in land ring. Which will give a enhanced piston life.
ALFIN is inserted within the ring grooves when casting. ALFIN is made of special austenitic cast iron. It is tightly bonded metallically to piston body and counteracts the wear in the top ring groove. ALFIN pistons are commonly used in diesel engines.
Austenitic means that (amongst other things) it's non-magnetic.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#45

Post by asavage » 7 years ago

A local fellow is in the process of converting his 1982 720 SD22 to SD25, and he's rebuilding the SD25.

He has found a North American supplier of Alfin* (ALumnium Ferrous INsert) piston/liner sets. We don't know yet if they're 3-ring or 5-ring, but we'll know that next week. He actually bought the whole kit to rebuild the engine: rod & main brgs, gaskets, etc.

Tiffin Parts LLC
235 Miami St
Tiffin, OH 44883‎
(419) 447-7527
800-219-6354
888-397-4794 Fax

They seem to be geared to the industrial market (forklifts), so 5-ring is likely. However, there's not a lot of downsides to 5-ring pistons/rings IMO.





From the web:
ALumnium Ferrous INsert PistonIt is a bi-metrallic piston, consisting of a body of aluminum alloy and a wear resistant cast iron inserted for the top grove. The top grove is fitted with a steel chrome in land ring. Which will give a enhanced piston life.
ALFIN is inserted within the ring grooves when casting. ALFIN is made of special austenitic cast iron. It is tightly bonded metallically to piston body and counteracts the wear in the top ring groove. ALFIN pistons are commonly used in diesel engines.
Austenitic means that (amongst other things) it's non-magnetic.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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