My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

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waynosworld
Posts: 503
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Vancouver Washington USA

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#211

Post by waynosworld » 2 months ago

The one with the cylindrical end is what Plenzen used except he had the cylindrical part machined off, I bought both types to have options, but the flat type seems to be the one for me.
If I had the SD22 I would likely use the one with the cylindrical end, I dropped it into the neck of the throttle body and it is exactly the same size as the throat of the throttle body, so even though it looks smaller in the photos below it is not a bottle neck issue, I do not believe the heated air will be an issue for the throttle body or the rubber hose pieces connected to it/holding it on, as long as they are made for turbo applications or made to be in engine compartments where heat is an issue like radiator hoses, this is the way I would try it first if I had an SD22 in the photos below, if that didn't work I would then make an adapter for the intake manifold.
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Another thing to keep in mind here is hood clearance, there is a reason the air ducting is made the way it is at the throttle body(low profile), it has to clear the hood, any spacers that raise the throttle body is one of the things I am dealing with, adapter plates and the heater element will likely raise it more than an inch, I believe your 620slodat on Ratsun, correct?
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.

handcannon
Posts: 56
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#212

Post by handcannon » 2 months ago

You asked a question in the last few words of the last sentence of the previous post. I don't know why before now I didn't even see the question you asked. Yes, I'm 620slodat on ratsun.

I currently have an e-mail in to get the dimensions on a thread in type of heater. This is a shorter one than most. It will fit many Ford and IH tractors, and maybe more. Not what I was looking for as I'm concerned about taking up air space in the intake plenum, which is why I was looking at what looked like a shorter one.

I hadn't even thought of getting the heater with the "radiator" ends on it and fitting the heater to the intake snorkel. I like that idea and I will have to check it out. I just went out and it looks like 2 3/8ths is the inside dimensions for the intake snorkel. Are you able to give me the outside dimensions of your "radiator" intake? I will have to see if somebody online can give me dimensions for the intake portion of the heater they are selling.

Don

handcannon
Posts: 56
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#213

Post by handcannon » 2 months ago

By the way, I meant to let you know where I'm at on the diesel conversion. I have the 1978 King cab (with the rusty floor) setting on the 1982 frame now, but I think already told you that several months ago. It is providing me with a good template to be able to use for measurements so that I can transfer them to the 1973 standard cab before I do any cutting on the 1973.

Like I figured, summer time really slowed me down and I didn't get very much done. I still have the 1973 mostly in one piece yet. Since I already had the SD-22 motor and transmission setting in the 1973 before you gave me the 1982 frame I left the 1973 mostly alone and am currently working on getting a radiator for it. I had to raise the cab an inch to get the transmission to set under it. I didn't want to do any cutting and welding on the transmission hump. Last week I had to lift it another inch to be able to put a complete 2000 Altima radiator, AC condenser, and electric fan in it. After I get that set under the hood hopefully I will be able to lower the cab back down some.

Currently the 1982 frame, and the 1978 King cab, is setting under a tarp outside. At least it has been mostly dry so far this winter as that has been very helpful to me. I've got the woodshed about ready for the frame, but I need to get some wood split and in the shed before putting the frame in there as it will make access for getting additional wood in difficult. We heat with wood and go through up to six cords each winter (old house and not well insulated).

Don

waynosworld
Posts: 503
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Vancouver Washington USA

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#214

Post by waynosworld » 2 months ago

Personally I would buy the new short flat heater and make the ends from the proper size metal tubing like I did on the one end(black end fitted to the snorkel) in my last post, the radiator type fitting is only 2 inches across, I bought it first as it was the only one on ebay, well I figured out a better worded search and found that new one with no radiator type fitting and it was cheaper so I bought it also.
Like I said before, I put that radiator end of the heater into the top of the throttle body and looked down thru it, the inside of the holes are the same size so it is not a bottle neck, but if I use that one I will do the same thing Plenzen did and have the radiator end machined off to look like the new one I bought, if I had seen the new one in that first search I would not have bought the used one.
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I suspect that it might work on the end of the snorkel but I don't know it will, if the pedal is floored when trying to start it hot/warm air will get thru, in the end I also suspect the closer to the cylinders the better.

I heat with wood also, I go thru about 4 cord a year.
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.

handcannon
Posts: 56
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#215

Post by handcannon » 2 months ago

Last night, while in bed trying to go to sleep, I was thinking about the intake heater. I'm wondering if the intake snorkel, since it is just sheet metal, will get hot. Maybe too hot to touch. Also, thinking it won't be the best place to locate it since the sheet metal won't have enough mass to absorb the heat and shed enough of it into the intake air. I know heat would get into the intake air, but how much would be lost into the surrounding air. But, it is another possibility to keep in mind if nothing else works out.

I already had plans (possibly Monday) to go to Linn-Benton Tractor out in Tangent, since they are a Yanmar dealer, to see what they might know about an air pre-heater for diesels. They might know about something that would work. Also, they might have a pre-heater like you found in stock and then I could get measurements directly from it.

The e-mail I have in e-bay about the air heater may be a lost cause. After I sent the e-mail I saw a you tube video of an open flame type of pre-heater for a Perkins diesel motor, and the air heater was the same as the one I sent the e-mail about. The heater started glowing, then diesel fuel was pumped through the heater and ignited by the glowing heater (like a diesel fueled blow torch). The flame was allowed to burn just a short time to warm up the intake manifold, then the motor was cranked over, sucking the flame and heat into the cylinders. There was a special set up and pump for the fuel used by the pre-heater, which was pumped through the pre-heater.

Don

waynosworld
Posts: 503
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Vancouver Washington USA

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#216

Post by waynosworld » 2 months ago

I thought about that also when I mentioned using turbo tubing to put everything together, turbochargers get hot yet that tubing doesn't melt.
Fact it I would guess that in the summer everything gets hot in the engine compartment, I suspect hotter than the heater will make the snorkel, the heater will only be on a couple minutes, and the cool air entering from the air filter as it is very cold(the reason for the air heater element in the first place), that air will cool the sheet metal.
I have been thinking about trying it on the snorkel on my 720 just to see if it helps, but first I would need to start that engine as it has been sitting un-started for several months now, start it up now and warm it up, then shut it down and then on the next cold day(below freezing) see what happens, I can do it without the turbo connected just to see if it starts easier.
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.

waynosworld
Posts: 503
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Vancouver Washington USA

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#217

Post by waynosworld » 2 months ago

OK, like I said I needed to start this engine as it has not been started in a while(at least a couple months if not double that), it is 52 degrees outside, this engine has always started easy, but normally it would miss a couple times after sitting this long even in the summer.
I decided to test the heater and start the truck at the same time, I decided to disconnect the turbo and pipe in the heater with the radiator type fitting on the one end, this is what I did in the photos below, I connected a ground wire and a power wire, the power wire went straight to the positive battery post, I only had the heater powered around 3 minutes total, it did not glow like the new one did.
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I cycled the glow plugs twice(took a couple minutes max), and then I started it, it didn't miss even once, it just ran, the snorkel didn't even get warm, neither did the turbo hose, but again it is 52 degrees outside, a true test on starting it will be when it is below 32 degrees which is not supposed to happen in the next week, last nights low was 45 degrees, I will try starting it again the next time it gets near freezing, next Saturday/Sunday are supposed to get down to 37 degrees for the low, I will try it then, it has always missed a couple times when I tried starting it when it was that cold.
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.

waynosworld
Posts: 503
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Vancouver Washington USA

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#218

Post by waynosworld » 2 months ago

So I just had to see what would happen, I disconnected the turbo piping on the 521 and installed the heater on it, I connected the power, turned the key on, got out and looked at the heater and it was slightly orange, got back in and when the light went out I started it, it missed a couple times but was idling smoothly right away, but again it is 50 degrees out right now, the blue turbo 90 degree pipe didn't even get warm, the metal housing of the heater was only slightly warm, this made me curious, so I stuck my fingers near the inlet of the heater element while is was still powered/heating while it was running and all I could feel was cool air being sucked into the hole, the wires were not orange anymore either, I stuck my finger as close to the wires as I dared and could not feel any heat, just cool air being sucked in, I disconnected the power and sparks flew as it lost contact with the positive post, I do not think heat is going to be an issue.
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Actually I am thinking about putting the new air heater element close to that spot right now if I can get it to clear the hood, all I have to do is put my ends I already have on it and wire in the relay, I will likely have to cycle the glow plugs twice to warm the heater up though as it needs a couple minutes to get it glowing orange.
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I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.

plenzen
Posts: 867
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: Cochrane Alberta Canada

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#219

Post by plenzen » 2 months ago

Maybe find a means to keep it powered after initial startup to just help it smooth out. Kind of like a slow glow system. Not sure how you would do that. Maybe put it in switch ( with a relay) and a light and after 2or3 minutes shut it off.

Just a thought.
Retired Pauly
Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN

handcannon
Posts: 56
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#220

Post by handcannon » 2 months ago

Real good info wayno! I no longer need to be concerned about excess heat on the outside of the intake tubes. Now to wait for some colder temperatures so you can continue the tests.

Don

waynosworld
Posts: 503
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Vancouver Washington USA

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#221

Post by waynosworld » 2 months ago

plenzen wrote:
2 months ago
Maybe find a means to keep it powered after initial startup to just help it smooth out. Kind of like a slow glow system. Not sure how you would do that. Maybe put it in switch ( with a relay) and a light and after 2or3 minutes shut it off.

Just a thought.
If that was going to happen it would have to be a timed automatic shut off, I am forgetting stuff all the time, important stuff, today I left the house to do a job and I left the rear door unlocked, a couple weeks ago I forgot I had to pick up the the rolls from the bakery for thanksgiving dinner, good thing they called me to remind me, sometimes I get up off the couch and leave the room to do something and then forget what I was going to do, so I stand there a while and sometimes I remember and sometimes I have to sit on the couch again to remember, this is not new, I have been this way all my life.
I need to make everything I do wayno proof if I can, if it is controlled by a toggle switch I will eventually leave it on, I am always leaving the choke on in my work truck, even after I get on the freeway and wonder why I am using so little pedal, but when I get to a stop sign/signal and it starts loping I push the choke in, this is an instance when hitting all the signals green is bad as it drinks fuel when the choke is on, and when I have a rolling weight of over 6000lbs it drinks fuel anyway.
The truck weighs 3900lbs and the trailer is more than 2000lbs with the equipment in it.
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I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.

plenzen
Posts: 867
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: Cochrane Alberta Canada

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#222

Post by plenzen » 2 months ago

C R A F T disease. (can't remember a f'n thing).
Got it, had it for,,,,,,,,, :? :? :? :? , I forgot :)

That's why I suggested a big ass light to come on with it.
One of them retina burning LEDs.

I have a bunch of Yanmar glow plug timers here but they're only 15 seconds. I can send you one if you want but 15 seconds is pretty short. Kinda like "our" memory. :wink:

Paul
Retired Pauly
Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN

handcannon
Posts: 56
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#223

Post by handcannon » 2 months ago

Both of you have my problem, can't remember----uh, what was I saying? It was well known, when I was still working, that If I was in the shop and was stopped for a question that I would probably be back and asking if anybody had seen whatever I just had in my hands at that time.

Anyway, I'm still working on the new radiator mounts. I'm enjoying all this. When I was still working this was what I was doing, only it was with wood, not metal.

Don

waynosworld
Posts: 503
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Vancouver Washington USA

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#224

Post by waynosworld » 2 months ago

Thankyou for the offer Plenzen, but I need something that will last 2/3 minutes after being activated, I searched 12V automotive delay timer relay and the results were very confusing/complicated to me, this link below is one of them.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-Multifu ... SwOGFcrGgm
The amp rating doesn't really apply as i was going to just use it to control a glow plug relay I was planning to use for the "air heater element", but I really don't understand what all is described in the product details, it has 8 time ranges but doesn't really go into detail on what they are, maybe these types of timers are not the type I need.
I suppose I could just use a bypass button to control that relay, but I planned on having the heater come on automatically with the glow plugs via a toggle switch so it could be turned off when not needed, but I suspect if I push the button it will also activate the glow plugs the way I planned to set it up, not sure if that is a good idea.
I guess I could just put the air heater on its own toggle switch with a very annoying bright light in the dash like I have for the e-brake and glow plug timer(521 dash), I just know at some point I will leave it on accidentally like if I turn the headlights on during the day time hours, I have left them on more than once.
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.

waynosworld
Posts: 503
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Vancouver Washington USA

Re: My 1969 Datsun 521 kingcab

#225

Post by waynosworld » 2 months ago

I started the 720 engine this morning when it was 34 degrees outside, the neighbors roof was still frozen(white), I cycled the glow plugs twice and the heater was on around 3 minutes, everything was set up like I had it before in post 217, it started right away, but it missed a few times before smoothing out and it idled fine, but I have that stock idle adjustment choke type cable the Datsun diesel trucks had stock, it was idled up to around 1200rpms when I started it, and it started on the first try like if it was 50+ degrees out, I need to plumb everything on this 521 truck the night before it goes into the 20s so I can just go outside and start it without fiddling with stuff, that will be the only way I know this heater will work piped this way for sure, as i know it will not want to start at all in the 20s, as I have tried in the past and gave up, I had to plug the block heater in and wait for an hour before it would start.
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.

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