Fuel mileage with SD25, using GPS

Dealing with all subsystems specific to the diesel powered Datsun-Nissan 720 pickup trucks.

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plenzen
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Fuel mileage with SD25, using GPS

#1

Post by plenzen »

I guess this loosely relates to the "Pyrometer" thread that Phillip has posted.
Back two months + ago I did a 5000K (3000 miles) service on my D21. I did the usual things like oil change, filters (fuel and oil), lube etc. I also sent the starter for rebuilding at that time and, while it was away, I drained the Trans oil and the Diff oil. I cleaned out both as best I could, washed them with brake clean, and let them both drain for two days. ( busy with other things and had to wait for the starter anyway) I installed Red Line 75-90 in the Diff and MT 90 in the Trans. (Can’t remember if it was Phillip or Al that suggested these, plus other brands to me). I put in Petro Canada Duron E 15/40 CI 4 engine oil. I also added some Stanadyne Fuel additive (Performance Formula) as per the instructions on the label.
Over the past 5000K’s I have noticed the following;
Easier start up with less smoke. No “Hunting” at low speed, light throttle, nearly to operating temps. ( Something to do with the CSD no doubt, but it has stopped). I have gained nearly half a gear climbing up the hill out of town where I live. I used to have to go up there in 3rd and could hold it at 80Kph but seemed to be too many RPM’s for my liking and she would smoke too!! Lots of black smoke. Now I can hit the bottom at approx 80kph in 4th and it will only drop to 60Kph at the beginning and crawl back to nearly 70Kph most of the way up with considerably less smoke. Before it was on it’s knees begging for 3rd. The shifts from 1st to 2nd do not “Touch” any more and the 2nd to 3rd is much better as well. In fact it shifts like a new transmission!.
Over this 5000K’s I have gone from 30 – 32 MPG’s ( imperial gallons here) to 35-37 MPG’s and, a couple of straight highway tanks at 100Kph, no wind, of 39 MPG’s. I do not have to “Pin” the throttle in a head wind to maintain 110 Kph and, the smaller hills etc around the area here I can pull most of them in 5th now and only drop 10 Kph. Far FAR better than it was before, and used to shift to 4th most of the time. The performance continues to improve as far as engine power goes.
I know that the Synth. Oil in the trans has made a HUGE difference just in how it shifts when cold. What to attribute the biggest change to I do not know, the Synth. oil or the fuel additive. I suspect that the internal advance mechanism was not doing what it was supposed to do because of the ULSD :?: :?:
I spoke with my dad and he said that when it was new (1987) he thought that it got around 40 MPG’s ( remember imperial gals. here) but really never paid that much attention to it. He did say that it did not do as well as his 84 with the SD22 in it, but it did make more power than it did, and, you can’t get nothing for nothing. He also lives at sea level and I am at 4000 Ft + so that will have a bearing on it as well.
I have installed Delo 400 15/40 for this oil change and I noted that the oil that came out on this change seemed to be a bit cleaner than usual but that may just be my imagination. :? I continue to use the Stanadyne fuel additive.

Paul
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philip
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Re: Fuel Milage SD 25

#2

Post by philip »

plenzen wrote: -SNIP- I used to have to go up there in 3rd and could hold it at 80Kph but seemed to be too many RPM’s for my liking and she would smoke too!! Lots of black smoke.
80 Kph = 50 mph. No way will my 720 achieve that speed in 3rd gear. 40mph (65 kph) has my SD screaming. SHIFT
plenzen wrote: Now I can hit the bottom at approx 80kph in 4th and it will only drop to 60Kph at the beginning and crawl back to nearly 70Kph most of the way up with considerably less smoke.
That's what it's supposed to do. Use diesels at mid rpm torque ... not high rpm horsepower. A pyrometer will show you excessive exhaust heat from excessive soot.
plenzen wrote: I have gone from 30–32 MPG’s (imperial gallons here) to 35-37 MPG’s
MPG is US mile-per-US gallon ... not Imp gallons :wink: So how about Km's per liters (or Imp)? :wink:
-Philip
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1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

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asavage
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Re: Fuel Milage SD 25

#3

Post by asavage »

plenzen wrote:I suspect that the internal advance mechanism was not doing what it was supposed to do because of the ULSD . . .
Do you have the Inline IP, or the Distributor IP?

The Inline IP does not have an internal advancer. The Distributor (VE-style) IP does, but it's entirely hydraulic. It's speed governor is mechanical though.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
plenzen
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#4

Post by plenzen »

It does have the VE pump on it. There is a speedo error with the truck and the lower the speed the greater the error. At 100 KPH it is right on the numbers (according to the GPS), so I suspect the 75 to 80 KPH indicated in 3rd is closer to 60 - 65 KPH. (I will go and try it to see exactly) I have tried in the past to shift to 4th to get up that hill and it would not do it. I always short shift, and let the torque pull it along, and on the flat it does fine. Eg: 1 to 2 at about 15 K's, 2 to 3 at about 25 to 30 k's, 3 to 4 at about 45 ks and into 5th about 85 - 90. IT WOULD NOT GO UP THAT HILL IN 4th and, continued to lose until I HAD TO SHIFT to 3rd, usually around 40 to 50 KPH. Even now, if there is a substantial head wind, or, I have something in the box of the truck, say 3 or 400 lbs, it still will not go up that hill in 4th. Don’t matter how fast I hit the bottom it will still need to go to third. It is getting better, and empty, with no head wind, it will do as I said where it would not before. Hill is about 3 Kms long with 2 "S" turns in it, and 3 changing grades.

MPG's is MILES PER GALLON! Be it Imperial or US. I know there is a difference in the volume of both; however "MPG" in Canada has always been referred to as MPG's "PERIOD" not MPG's Imp, or MPG's US, just MPG's! :D GM sticker on our new car has the estimated economy in L/100km AND in mi/gal. "Imperial" is N O T specified. The mi/gal HAS TO be in imperial as the numbers for that car in the US are different as far as MPG's go, The Canadian "Energuide" rules dictate it. I can scan the sticker and post if you wish. :lol:
So that being said: :roll:
I went from approx 9.5 and 8.7 L/100 Km to 8 and 7.7 L/100 Km.
What is confusing for old guys like me that were around when the imperial measurement was still being used and then went to the Metric. We "Dinosaurs" have bastardized the two systems to get the numbers we can associate with. Throw in US measurement and it really gets convoluted :roll: Everything is the same between the two except fluid volumes. :) :) :)
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#5

Post by philip »

plenzen wrote: -SNIP- MPG's is MILES PER GALLON! Be it Imperial or US.


1) When you are driving in Canada, what highway posts do you see? In Km or in Miles?

2) I take it that your fuel stations register in liters ... right?

3) I take it that your truck's speedoMETER is also metric ... right?

4) So ... for 100 km, how many liters to refill the tank? All highway, all local ... you tell me. :wink:
-Philip
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My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
plenzen
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#6

Post by plenzen »

The answer to all your questions is: Kilometers, Liters, and Kilometers Per hour. :wink:

That being said: :)

The point of this posting was to simply relate that since switching the gear oils from Petro to Synthetic and adding the Stanadyne fuel supplement I have gained approximatly a 10 - 15% improvement in "Kilometerage" ( if that is even a word) :? per liter, or, as it is supposed to be referred to, "Liters per 100 Km (L/100Km)". I merely tried to to put in terms that could be understood although a lame attempt at it. :?
I will use metric terms from now and refer to economy as L/100 Kms and since there would be math involved anyway just leave it at that. :wink:

Bottom line here is that these simple changes have improved the performance and overall drivability of the truck. :)

Paul
Last edited by plenzen 16 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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plenzen
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#7

Post by plenzen »

Ok :) Today I did a test on the accuracy of my speedo.
I used my GPS to get and confirm the speeds.
At 30 K indicated the speed is actually 25K
At 50K - - - 46
At 60K - - - 57
At 70K - - - 68
At 80K - - - 78
At 90K - - - 88-89
At 100K - - 99-100
At 110K - - 109
At 120K - - 118


FYI Phillip! :P
I did this test today and I will N E V E R do it again, but I just had to know. :twisted:

In 3rd gear, on flat ground, no wind, pinned and on the govener 93-94 Kph.
Held it there long enough to get a good read on the GPS and it was switching back and forth between the two.

I am anticipating your next question here :wink:
Rear Dif is H190A with 3.889 gears
Trans is FS5W71C
3.985 1st
2.246 2nd
1.415 3rd
1.000 4th
.8215 5th

So the 80 K indicated up the hill is actually 78 Kph.

I have no idea what the govener is set to but I suspect 4500 RPM or so, might even be as high as 4700, I cant find the spec on that in the FSM, but it will still be factory as that has not been messed with.

I have brought the little guy home and talked nice to it the whole way and even plugged in the block heater for the night to say I'm sorry! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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#8

Post by philip »

And ... :wink:

Rear tire radius? (center to ground)

I have -borrowed- a GPS (TomTomOne) few times. Maybe Santa Claus will give me one. :wink:
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
plenzen
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#9

Post by plenzen »

They are 195 - 75 - 14

Radius 323.85 mm :wink:

Circumference 2035.5 mm :)

They turn 815.3 times in 1.6093 kms :)

(you wanted metric :!: :lol: )

This is according to a "tire size calculator", and I have not actually measured the ones that are on the truck but suspect that they are pretty close. The tire will grow with centrifugal force as well and a measurment from the center to the ground will give you a shorter (smaller) radius because of sidewall deflection because of the static weight :?:
The tire size calculator does the speed and distance comparrison at 100 Kph
http://www.1010tires.com/TireSizeCalcul ... ion=submit
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#10

Post by philip »

plenzen wrote:-snip-
In 3rd gear, on flat ground, no wind, pinned and on the govener 93-94 Kph.
Held it there long enough to get a good read on the GPS and it was switching back and forth between the two. -snip
I "won" (ebay) a Garmin c330 GPS (refurbished) for $117. Unit come with a 1 warranty from Garmin so ... we'll see what shows up next Wednesday (1/16). At FRYS and on sale, new price is $249.

I'm more than curious to compare the GPS speed to the truck's speedometer velocity and distance. :wink:
-Philip
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My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
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#11

Post by philip »

plenzen wrote:-snip-
In 3rd gear, on flat ground, no wind, pinned and on the govener 93-94 Kph.
Held it there long enough to get a good read on the GPS and it was switching back and forth between the two. -snip
Ok ... I've got it. Garmin c330 GPS.

Speedo: In the range 15 to 40 mph, it's about 2 mph high ... according to the GPS.

45 to max, it's 3 mph higher than the GPS.

Here's the poor little thing after running up against the governor in 5th gear.

Image
-Philip
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1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
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#12

Post by asavage »

philip wrote:Here's the poor little thing after running up against the governor in 5th gear.
What, up on blocks!?
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#13

Post by philip »

asavage wrote:
philip wrote:Here's the poor little thing after running up against the governor in 5th gear.
What, up on blocks!?
'splain Lucy.
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
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#14

Post by asavage »

:) Your GPS indicates near 85 MPH, and that's plainly impossible -- this is a 2.2l diesel-powered 720 pickup, after all, and even if you're in SoCal and all, it would take a tumble off a cliff to accelerate an SD22 to that velocity. :twisted:

Since you said you were running at the governor in 5th, I assume you had the truck up on blocks to get it up to the governor in 5th, and took that GPS pic in your Buick! :) :lol:
gimmy51
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#15

Post by gimmy51 »

All this talk of milage in the 30s how does 45 sound at 5000 feet 60-65 MPH
Jim
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