SD2x transmission issues: FS5W71x series of 5-spds

Dealing with all subsystems specific to the diesel powered Datsun-Nissan 720 pickup trucks.

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Knucklehead
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#31

Post by Knucklehead » 13 years ago

One guy said that he ruined a tailhousing trying to get it out, so I decided the impact route was a no go. I took a while making supports and put it in a press and it came right out. :D
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'82 standard cab 3 axle SD22 turbo
'89 int'l 9700 Cummins 444 (855 ci)
'29 HD FD export model

abumariah
Posts: 21
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Location: kentucky

used or used????

#32

Post by abumariah » 13 years ago

hey guys.

i'm pulling my trans off today and wanted your advice. when i drained it yesterday there were two gear teeth and a lot of fuzz on the plug.

i had ideas of perhaps trying to rebuild the thing myself (would be my first time), but i can get a "good" used one locally for $350. from what i can tell looking at prices, if i have to swap out a gear or two, i'm going to be spending that much anyway especially since i don't have a hydraulic press.

i bought this truck a couple weeks ago cause it was in perfect shape except for the trans. so i was expecting the work, but it sounds like i might be in over my head rebuilding whereas i know i can bolt another tranny back in.

advice?
1985 720 kc 4x4 z24
1981 720 kc 2wd sd22

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philip
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Re: used or used????

#33

Post by philip » 13 years ago

abumariah wrote:... it sounds like i might be in over my head rebuilding whereas i know i can bolt another tranny back in.

advice?
Go with what you know. Just be sure the replacement gearbox is solid as you don't want to perform the R&R twice.
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

redmondjp
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Re: used or used????

#34

Post by redmondjp » 13 years ago

abumariah wrote:hey guys.

. . . but i can get a "good" used one locally for $350. from what i can tell looking at prices, if i have to swap out a gear or two, i'm going to be spending that much anyway especially since i don't have a hydraulic press. . .
Not to be a doubting Thomas, but how do you know that the "good" one really is? There's no way that you're going to be able to really know unless you tear into it and inspect bearing races, synchros, etc. Or until after driving it. Even if the gears and synchros look good, you could have a worn-out input shaft bearing which you'll have to really look close at to tell.

Buying used transmissions (auto or manual) is a total crapshoot IMO. It's basically legalized gambling! I can go out to the Pull-a-Part and get a transmission for just over $50 (I have, several times) spend several hours installing it, and then (roll the dice, say my prayers, boil chicken's feet, etc) take it on a test drive to see if I've won or lost.

$350 is a pretty high minimum bid, IMO unless you've got an ace up your sleeve!
1982 Datsun 720 King Cab, SD22, 86K miles (sold)
1981 Rabbit LS 4-door, 1.6D, 130K miles (sold)
1996 Passat TDI 4-door sedan, 197K miles

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Knucklehead
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#35

Post by Knucklehead » 13 years ago

If you take the trans to a shop it could cost you up to a grand. Some parts can be expensive, so that's not a ridiculous price if you trust them. I'm slow and it took me maybe 30 hours in disassembly, discovery, assessment, cleaning, ordering and picking up parts, and reassembly. It's a labor of love for me, and a release. If you hate the work, have a lot of demands on your time, and make a lot of money, send it out.

I would absolutely not bolt in a used tranny (unless you just don't give a damn, but then why would you be asking?) without opening it up and inspecting it. Too easy.

It's worthwhile to pull yours apart first and take stock. You have nothing to lose. When you're done you'll be qualified to answer your own question. Have a FSM, a good vice, a stiff pair of snap ring pliers and Harbor Freight has ITEM 1667-4VGA for $115. It's worth it.
'82 standard cab 3 axle SD22 turbo
'89 int'l 9700 Cummins 444 (855 ci)
'29 HD FD export model

abumariah
Posts: 21
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: kentucky

hmmfph.

#36

Post by abumariah » 13 years ago

opened up the tranny case today. the od gear and counter, and the reverse gear and counter are all DESTROYED.

wanted you guys' opinions...it looks like the used tranny is going to cost less than the new parts and i could swap out the gears from the other trans...i guess i'm wondering if its normal for these two (od and reverse) to wear out because if it is i probably shouldn't take a chance on the used tranny.

opinions?

thanks guys.

oh yeah...the bearings in my tranny are top notch still. so i don't have to worry about those. i don't think.
1985 720 kc 4x4 z24
1981 720 kc 2wd sd22

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asavage
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Re: hmmfph.

#37

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

abumariah wrote:opened up the tranny case today. the od gear and counter, and the reverse gear and counter are all DESTROYED.
Reverse is often beat up. There are at least four different tooth counts for that gear, so count yours if possible.
oh yeah...the bearings in my tranny are top notch still. so i don't have to worry about those. i don't think.
Have you tried the Windoze FS5W71 bearing life calculator yet?

Replace at least the two forward ones. They're the trouble ones.
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Last edited by asavage 13 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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philip
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Re: hmmfph.

#38

Post by philip » 13 years ago

abumariah wrote:opened up the tranny case today. the od gear and counter, and the reverse gear and counter are all DESTROYED. SNIP
That's what happens you let those gear oil leaks (like the speedo drive, tailshaft, & shifter boot) go unrepaired. Then ... the neglectful party puts some oil in and dumps the truck.
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

abumariah
Posts: 21
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: kentucky

adapter plate

#39

Post by abumariah » 13 years ago

do you guys put the adapter plate directly in the vise when you're pulling bearings or do you have something similar to the nissan fsm tool or do you even use a vise at all?
1985 720 kc 4x4 z24
1981 720 kc 2wd sd22

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asavage
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#40

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

On one of the transmissions, I removed the shaft snap rings and when the gearset came out of the case, the brg remained in the case. Pic is here.

The other one, I think I used a std brg puller plate, that has knife edges and is split (two-piece) and clamps behind the brg, then used a jaw puller on that.

I'll be doing this job again this week (on the '82 SD trans going into the '86). The trans works OK, but I've got it out, it's getting new front brgs.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

ffdjm
Posts: 18
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

#41

Post by ffdjm » 13 years ago

I overhauled my transmission without a vice. The tool that caused me the most effort in finding was a strong pair of snap ring pliers. Lacking a press to squeeze things back together I made a hand press out of 1/2" threaded rod and angle iron.

Tranny was taken apart because of noise in the indirect gears which indicates worn bearings. Then too there was some fuzz on the magnetic drain plug. The bearings showed some wear but not so much that they were in danger of failure. But I replaced them all anyway. Gears were fine. For some reason I had to pull a gear to replace a bearing, used a jaw puller carelessly and chipped the gear. Had to replace it and the gear it meshed with. That hurt. I did not replace the synchronizers. The speedometer cable seal leaks oil into the cable but did not replace it. The oil is a cosmetic problem only as it leaks out of the speedometer onto the floor but it does not solidify like the original grease did in cold weather and break the speedometer cable.

I hate getting dirty and oily. I hate crawling under vehicles and have dirt rain down on me. But doing my own work, taking the time to do the job right and documenting it is the only way to ensure my vehicle won't break down in the next few years. I've been burned by too many sloppy mechanics in the past and have had to have the work redone at considerable expense.

Douglas

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asavage
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#42

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

ffdjm wrote:I hate getting dirty and oily. I hate crawling under vehicles and have dirt rain down on me. But doing my own work, taking the time to do the job right and documenting it is the only way to ensure my vehicle won't break down in the next few years. I've been burned by too many sloppy mechanics in the past and have had to have the work redone at considerable expense.
Yeah, Verily, Brother!

Almost every time I pay someone to work on one of my vehicles, I get screwed.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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philip
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Location: Southern California, USA

#43

Post by philip » 13 years ago

asavage wrote:Yeah, Verily, Brother!

Almost every time I pay someone to work on one of my vehicles, I get screwed.
Sex for services rendered?

"Sir, I'd like to get this BMW for my wife"

"Sorry ... our sales department does not take wives in trade."
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

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Knucklehead
Posts: 148
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Location: Phoenix

#44

Post by Knucklehead » 13 years ago

I hate getting dirty and oily. I hate crawling under vehicles and have dirt rain down on me.
And double amen. I am sooo with you brother.
I overhauled my transmission without a vice.
How can you LIVE without a vice?
'82 standard cab 3 axle SD22 turbo
'89 int'l 9700 Cummins 444 (855 ci)
'29 HD FD export model

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Knucklehead
Posts: 148
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Phoenix

#45

Post by Knucklehead » 13 years ago

I hate getting dirty and oily. I hate crawling under vehicles and have dirt rain down on me.
And double amen. I am sooo with you brother.
I overhauled my transmission without a vice.
How can you LIVE without a vice? I can't fix dinner without one.
do you guys put the adapter plate directly in the vise
I did, with soft jaws.
reverse gear and counter are all DESTROYED.
That is from too quick and harsh forcing reverse after not quite stopping.
the od gear and counter
Notwithstanding Al's experiences with the front bearings, most of the experiences I have read about have to do with the OD gears, usually something to do with the mainshaft nut backing off or loosening despite being staked AND the thrust washer being pinned. There are some strange forces going on back there so guesstimate on the extra side when torquing that nut down.
it looks like the used tranny is going to cost less than the new parts and i could swap out the gears from the other trans...i guess i'm wondering if its normal for these two (od and reverse) to wear out because if it is i probably shouldn't take a chance on the used tranny.
I can't fault that logic, but even if those two are only bad in 20% of the transmissions you are still taking a chance. Ya know, a JY purchase shouldn't be about chance. They should let you pop the tail housing off to take a look (easy enough to do right there) after you buy it to confirm their claim of a good trans (or some such warranty). Seems only fair.
the bearings in my tranny are top notch still.
Hard to believe the rear bearings are top notch after all the destruction going on back there. Lotta metal been floating around in there too. Bearings are really cheap compared to gears. I thought mine were good too til I felt new ones. Don't forget to inspect the needle bearings the OD main gear run on. And if you haven't taken the main nut off yet, be sure to check the clearances. It'll tell you a lot about what was going on last.
'82 standard cab 3 axle SD22 turbo
'89 int'l 9700 Cummins 444 (855 ci)
'29 HD FD export model

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