SD2x transmission issues: FS5W71x series of 5-spds

Dealing with all subsystems specific to the diesel powered Datsun-Nissan 720 pickup trucks.

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abumariah
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Joined: 13 years ago
Location: kentucky

#46

Post by abumariah » 13 years ago

well, i decided to go ahead and pull the motor and tranny out of the 81 and swap trans parts over to the 85...i hadn't looked at the trans until saturday and wouldn't you know that its the original trans to the sd22? 75000 miles on it and it looks it. so i'm gonna pull od and reverse off the back and stick them on the 85 as soon as i can fabricate (or find) some kind of puller extension. it doesn't look that hard, but i've never done any bearing pulling like that so if you guys have any tips, bring em on. i'll post some pics of the results if y'all are interested.
1985 720 kc 4x4 z24
1981 720 kc 2wd sd22

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Knucklehead
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#47

Post by Knucklehead » 13 years ago

Bring on the pics. We (at least I) can never learn too much.
'82 standard cab 3 axle SD22 turbo
'89 int'l 9700 Cummins 444 (855 ci)
'29 HD FD export model

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Zoltan
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Location: Honolulu, HI

#48

Post by Zoltan » 13 years ago

abumariah wrote:
So i'm gonna pull od and reverse off the back and stick them on the 85 as soon as i can fabricate (or find) some kind of puller extension.
Something like this?

Image
The puller is the large POWERBUILT from Kragen-Checkers-Advance Auto. My brother and I cut the extensions from 3/8" thick 3/4" wide iron rods available from ACE hardware . The gears are very rigid and after chipping one, we cut small shims from the iron rod to distribute the pressure exerted by the claws of the puller. We replaced all bearings (except the small needle bearings) with the help of what's on the picture, a vise, a large adjustable wrench, a center punch (needed to unlock the large lock nuts), a hammer,Phillips and Torx bits, and whole punchers (to remove shift fork lock-pins and to re-seat the new bearings).

In my case, the culprit was the Rear countershaft bearing (6204X on Al's picture)

Image


Thanks God I didn't wait too long, because the reverse idler gear started to grind down due to the failing bearing.

Image

Now I see why ONE MUST COME TO A COMPLETE STOP BEFORE SHIFTING INTO REVERSE (while rolling in neutral, the gears are still spinning), otherwise grinding will occur.
Last edited by Zoltan 13 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
- Zoltan -
________________________________
'82 Datsun 720 SD22 California model
'86 Ford Escort 2.0L Diesel

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philip
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#49

Post by philip » 13 years ago

Zoltan wrote:Now I see why ONE MUST COME TO A COMPLETE STOP BEFORE SHIFTING INTO REVERSE (while rolling in neutral, the gears are still spinning), otherwise grinding will occur.
Great photos! :)

One must bring the two gears to a stop or synchronize their speeds because in this transmission .... Reverse has no synchromesh.

Recent case in point, when my clutch friction disc was randomly sticking on its splines (rust), engaging Reverse was not possible. Instead of grinding Reverse to stop the input shaft rotation, the Old Technique (especially after the trans lube has heated and lost viscosity) is to stop the input shaft by engaging any forward gear first (which ARE synchromeshed). This stops input shaft rotation. Then .... while the clutch is still disengaged ... shift into Reverse. Drops right in.
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

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philip
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#50

Post by philip » 13 years ago

asavage wrote:On this trans, the plugs are in pretty tight, and I know the lower one will leak if you don't put significant torque on it.
Speaking of gear oil leaks, watch the speedometer drive.

A couple of weeks ago, I had my guys pull the transmission to correct a dragging friction disc / rusty spline condition. In the process, the guys unscrewed the speedo cable from the drive pinion holder ... leaving the threads vulnerable to damage. The threads got ginched.

Image

The problem this caused was during the transmission reinstall, the knurled speedo cable nut screwed on only two turns and stopped, leaving 4-5 threads exposed. Properly done, NO threads visible. This lead to a gear oil leak that didn't surface for about 6-7 days.

Needless to say ... Bad Mechanic ... NO donuts. :shock: :x

I pulled the drive pinion housing from the tailshaft housing and took a thread file to the damaged threads. I also -considered- replacing the little oil seal inside. A visit to dealer revealed the seal is not available outside of the entire pinion assembly and it is a special order. $29.

Well, back together it all went but ... I screwed the speedo cable to the pinion drive securely BEFORE inserting it into the tailshaft housing.

Image
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

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asavage
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#51

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

Great lesson, Philip, Thanks.

abumariah
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Location: kentucky

so far...

#52

Post by abumariah » 12 years ago

well, i took both trannys apart and decided to just replace the gear that was bad (overdrive) and put the gasser trans back in while i work on the diesel engine. it means i'll have to buy an extra set of gaskets and locknuts, but that's the price i pay to tool around in my cool 720 in the meantime.


here are the two side by side, gas (4wd) in the foreground, diesel (2wd) in the rear when i opened the case up on the gas trans, (the diesel tranny has 75000 miles and is perfecto) there were a couple obvious problems:

Image

this is the inside of the bellhousing and it's been chewed on by??? fourth counter gear? i read in the fsm that you are supposed to shim the countershaft bearing against the dust cover...there was no shim when i took the cover off (this tranny looks like it was rebuilt at least once before...spanish bearings). could that lack of shim be the culprit? i haven't seen any shimmage in any rebuild kits so far so i wouldn't know how to go about shimming either. any thoughts?


Image

the other thing i noticed, was that on the diesel tranny, when i first pulled it out of the case, everything was tight as a drum. mainshaft, countershaft, they moved like a well-oiled machine. well, when i drove out the pins from the shift rods, i noticed that my mainshaft had develped a wobble around the midsection. after i beat on the locknuts to release them, the wobble was even more pronounced.

surely all this beating can't be good for those bearings? is there another method of disassembly/assembly that i'm ignorant of? gotta be a better way.

the last thing i noticed during reassembly was that the fsm's instructions on the order of replacing shift forks didn't work. when i started with 1/2 instead of reverse/od i couldn't get 3/4 in past the interlink balls. when i flipped the tranny the other way and replaced them in the order i took them out, all was fine.

anywhoo, i've got the case back together to get the truck moving again, but when i get the diesel engine ready i'm gonna move the mainshaft from the gasser over the diesel's trans to take advantage of the shorter gears what with big tires and all that.
1985 720 kc 4x4 z24
1981 720 kc 2wd sd22

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Zoltan
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#53

Post by Zoltan » 12 years ago

i haven't seen any shimmage in any rebuild kits so far so i wouldn't know how to go about shimming either. any thoughts?
If you have the 1982-1983 FSM, then MT-10 and MT-19 tells you how to measure end play. On MT-21 you have all part numbers listed that you can use to adjust endplay (a bunch of bearing and gear snap rings, and a shim for the counter front bearing: they all come in variable thickness).


surely all this beating can't be good for those bearings? is there another method of disassembly/assembly that i'm ignorant of? gotta be a better way.
Use a modified puller (see picture above)! The only time you should tap on the shafts is when you want to remove them from the central adapter plate. You can hold the shafts in a vise and hit on the central ring of the bearings. However, IMO if you're going into the trouble to take apart the transmission, you can afford to put in new bearings. I payed under $200 for all main bearings (Nachi brand).
- Zoltan -
________________________________
'82 Datsun 720 SD22 California model
'86 Ford Escort 2.0L Diesel

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ecomike
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Location: Houston Tx

FS5W71B refuses to shift - stuck in neutral - Cause?

#54

Post by ecomike » 12 years ago

Quick question!

I have the FS5W71B transmission which I rebuilt about 18 months ago. I have put about 5-10,000 miles on it (still no odometer on it, roundtoit project) since the rebuild. I replaced nearly everything, including the shafts, gears, needle bearings, all the bearings, gears, synchros, in fact everthing except the case, 4th gear, bearing retainer plate, the shifter forks and shifter assy.

Recently it has suddenly refused to shift in any gear at all, no gear
contact (no grinding) no meshing, like it is stuck in neutral and will not move, the shifter. Then after a minute or two of fiddling with it suddenly starts working again like nothing is wrong.

It has happened three times, usually almost after start up, never after a long drive, and twice after placing it in 5th gear and then placing it back
in neutral is where it hung up.

Any thoughts? Ever had or heard of this problem???

Oh, and the clutch master and slave cylinder and clutch and throw out bearing and pressure plate were also replaced when I rebuilt the tranny so no problems there either. I did have it mostly parked, barely drove it the last 4-6 months.

Thanks,
Regards,

Mike

1985 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer, 2WD, retrofitted with SD-22 & 5 spd manual trans, a 4X4 Gas Wagoneer ltd. (XJ) Jeep, 4.0 L w/ AW4 auto, and now 2 spare 2wd Jeeps, 87 & 89.

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asavage
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#55

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

I've had that happen, on the '82 "Bellingham Truck". I did not resolve the issue, but it did exactly what you have described. I am assuming the problem is in the shifter-to-forks area, possibly the shifter rail detent ball/springs.

I'll be taking that trans apart here "RSN", and will be looking especially at that area.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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ecomike
Posts: 242
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Location: Houston Tx

#56

Post by ecomike » 12 years ago

asavage wrote:I've had that happen, on the '82 "Bellingham Truck". I did not resolve the issue, but it did exactly what you have described. I am assuming the problem is in the shifter-to-forks area, possibly the shifter rail detent ball/springs.

I'll be taking that trans apart here "RSN", and will be looking especially at that area.
Well I hope I figured mine out. I will post some pictures lehere after dark of what I found and I have some new questions too, for now gotta mow the lawn.... before dark

Ok, I dug out the crap around the shifter (FSM calls it a Control Lever, CL) and found the remains of a rubber boot, if you can call it remains, and the carpet that had been used in the prior owners retrofit. I think the shift (CL) lever is either out of the original Jeep transmission (manual 4 speed, 2.5 L gasser), or it is from some other tranny as the Nissan FSM shows a straight shifter/CL and mine is bent twice at 90 degree angles giving about an 8" offset to get around the original jeep floor console. The original Jeep tranny shifter CL came through the floor about 8 inches forward of where the Nissan CL attaches to the tranny. The old boot from the old jeep tranny was still way up front. I thing the boot remains are from the Nissan 5 speeder. There was a third upper boot rig up top of the set up when I bought it but it was mess and was causing problems so it is gone now.

So I think what happened was two things, one, the carpet edge got caught in the striking guide under the CL/shifter causing it to bind up and restrict its freedom of movement enough to hold it in neutral. Also the boot remains and another 2 layer piece of shifted carpet in combination with a very loose pin/sleeve in the control lever /sticking guide assembly made the clearance to small for the CL to reach first and second gear at times.

I have made a temporary fix of this mess, but I need to do 2-3 things to fix it right, I think.

One is I need a new OEM boot to protect the stricking guide from getting road trash and dust in it! The OEM boot is designed for a straight CL from the picture in the FSM so that means I need to aquire a straight OEM or more suitable aftermarket, straighter / longer Control Lever (shifter) to match the boot and rework the jeep console to match it.

Lastly the CL / shifter I have has too large a bolt hole in it so the control lever pin holding it in place is about 5/16" OD and the hole in the CL shifter I have is about 5/8" ID (rough eye ball guesses) so it has a lot of slop in it which adds to the shifting problems. So once again I need to get a CL/shifter with the correct hole size to eliminate the slop. Looking at the FSM one last time I see a control lever bushing, A HA, I am missing the two bushings that go over the control lever pin inside the control lever too!

So does anyone know the part number and or any sources for the rubber boot and control lever/shifter that I need, or spares they want to get ride of? I may be able to get them at the online LV/Nevada place I bought all the gears and shafts for this tranny at 18 months ago.

Now how do I upload these photos?

Lets see if this works?

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2694/b ... cu2.th.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5071/s ... qy2.th.jpg


Ok, I have fought that battle and run out of steam after 2 hours of attempts, so where and how do I post a decent picture and get it to display here directly. I tried all the sugested code samples....etc.

Well I at least got the size bs figured out:

http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... g01pu4.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5071/s ... qy2.th.jpg
Regards,

Mike

1985 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer, 2WD, retrofitted with SD-22 & 5 spd manual trans, a 4X4 Gas Wagoneer ltd. (XJ) Jeep, 4.0 L w/ AW4 auto, and now 2 spare 2wd Jeeps, 87 & 89.

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Knucklehead
Posts: 148
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Phoenix

#57

Post by Knucklehead » 12 years ago

An old VW bug shifter boot works perfectly if you cut off the flange.
'82 standard cab 3 axle SD22 turbo
'89 int'l 9700 Cummins 444 (855 ci)
'29 HD FD export model

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Zoltan
Posts: 136
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Honolulu, HI

#58

Post by Zoltan » 12 years ago

ecomike wrote: So does anyone know the part number and or any sources for the rubber boot and control lever/shifter that I need, or spares they want to get ride of?
The small rubber boot part# is 32862-E9300 and it costs 5.20 or so. The large one #74963-01w01 is expensive ($36.34) and usually available a lot cheaper from ebay (<$10). A lot of time it is listed under Datsun 240 and looks like this


Image
- Zoltan -
________________________________
'82 Datsun 720 SD22 California model
'86 Ford Escort 2.0L Diesel

pbknowles
Posts: 95
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Illinois, USA

#59

Post by pbknowles » 12 years ago

Judging from the way the chrome is missing at all the bends, and having bent a few shift levers myself, I would say that they heated up and bent the bejeesus out of a stock Nissan lever......
SD22 powered '85 Chevy S-10

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asavage
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#60

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

ecomike wrote:One is I need a new OEM boot to protect the stricking guide from getting road trash and dust in it!
Do read the TSB on this boot.
the CL / shifter I have has too large a bolt hole in it so the control lever pin holding it in place is about 5/16" OD and the hole in the CL shifter I have is about 5/8" ID (rough eye ball guesses) so it has a lot of slop in it which adds to the shifting problems. So once again I need to get a CL/shifter with the correct hole size to eliminate the slop. Looking at the FSM one last time I see a control lever bushing, A HA, I am missing the two bushings that go over the control lever pin inside the control lever too!
They're oblong plastic ones. I can take pics, because I have two of them out, but they're at work.
Ok, I have fought that battle and run out of steam after 2 hours of attempts, so where and how do I post a decent picture and get it to display here directly. I tried all the sugested code samples....etc.
Click in images for larger:
Image Image

Code: Select all

[url=http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4922/shifter02bt2.jpg]
[img]http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5071/shifter02qy2.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2694/bootremainsrug02cu2.jpg]
[img]http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2694/bootremainsrug02cu2.th.jpg[/img][/url]
(without the line breaks, which I inserted to keep the lines short enough to not force horizontal scrolling of the entire thread.)
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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