Ford 6.9 t-stat housing

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rlaggren
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Ford 6.9 t-stat housing

#1

Post by rlaggren » 12 years ago

Al or anybody with this engine know a quick & easy replacement for the little ball bearing (check valve) in the housing? From what I've seen on FTE, it's described variously as 1/4" or 5/16" - anybody know the right size? I also saw a couple suggestions there for the retainer; the easiest seemed to be the brass compression coupling nut ground down to fit flush.

Any thoughts?

Rufus

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asavage
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#2

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

I don't know that it's a check valve. Isn't it a crude bleeder restriction?

Most of what I know about the 6.9l I learned at FTE.

(I spent most of last night at my milling machine trying to duplicate Pablo-UA's (Ukraine) installation of a GM PS pump on his 3.0l Aero. I'm almost there -- at the bracket level, anyway -- but man did I carve out a lot of aluminum!)
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

pbknowles
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#3

Post by pbknowles » 12 years ago

Between my brother in law and myself we have had four 6.9 powered trucks. Every one I ever took apart the little check ball was either stuck from general crud or someone's liberal application of gasket goop. Never seemed to have any effect whether they were cleaned up and working right or stuck solid.
SD22 powered '85 Chevy S-10

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asavage
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#4

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

That being the case, perhaps you can get away with the time-honored tradition of drilling a 3/32" hole in the thermostat's flange. Or use a vacuum bleeder tool and forget about air locks during coolant change altogether.

LD28 Owner
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What is FTE?

#5

Post by LD28 Owner » 12 years ago

I know that in public budgeting an FTE is a Full Time Equivalent but I don't think that is what it is in this discussion.

I'm guessing "F" is for Ford as opposed to the F in FUBAR (which occasionally has described my situation with respect to my 6.9).

It's the "T" and "E" that puzzles me.

Maybe if I had FTE, I wouldn't be FUBAR!

The Optimist

rlaggren
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#6

Post by rlaggren » 12 years ago

Well, I had to get it done today, so I begged some king sized BB's from the local bearing house. Don't know what the OEM material may have been. 1/4" seems to be the right size, plus a nut from a 1/8" brass compression coupling to hold it in. I ground the nut down to about 1/4" thick, but I think it'd have been better to take it down to something less than 3/16" to give the ball more room to move. Kissed the "bottom" corners to give a tiny chamfer and tapped it into the hole. I heard it hissing when I filled it (b4 I install the top hose), but as I said if I do it again, I'd give the ball more room to move so it doens't take so long to get the air out. I think that's what Al meant about a bleed and that's my understanting of the purpose also.

The talk on FTE ("Ford Truck Enthusiasts" for those infidels amoung us) is pretty much "fix the bleed and use the OEM 'stat - or else". My bleed was open (I didn't test the existing after market 'stat) and I'm hoping this will help the glacial warm-up / cold running problem. Won't know 'til I get back in town and get the right vacuum belt (alternator belt was wrong, alternator laying against the heater fan housing; vacuum belt runs off the alternator so that changed also, but I didn't know how much until I put the right alternator belt on - then it was too late to run get the vac belt).

Al, why a GM pump?

Rufus

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asavage
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#7

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

While there are a number of very knowledgeable folks in the IDI forum of FTE, I really don't think the IH bleed is necessary as designed. Unless I'm missing something, on a decent condition 6.9l there will only be non-liquid in that area at coolant change time -- approximately every two years.

Some engines have a manual bleed valve at a high point for this circumstance. At the shop, we usually avoided all the hassle and used a tool that runs on shop air which has a venturi and sucks most of the air from the cooling system. Then you close the venturi valve, open another valve to a coolant reservoir, and the coolant is sucked in -- everywhere. Works quite well, not too expensive but too expensive for DIY purchase.

Anyway . . . once the air is out, unless there's a cavitated block or head gasket issue, there should not be non-liquid to keep the thermostat from seeing water and opening. Based on that, I would not/did not worry about it much.

I just drove my old '84 F250 4WD 6.9l tonight, about fifteen miles. The new owner has it running very well, and it still drives quite nicely. I'm glad I sold it to him, he's done a good job with it . . . now that I think about it, it's owned by member Mark Hartz, to whom I sold the '83 Sedan recently. He promises he'll post soon. We did 90% of the IP belt & tensioner change last weekend, I took lots of notes and pictures for an upcoming long-winded article. We didn't finish because his new Schucks/Kragen brand-X lower radiator hose wouldn't come close to fitting (and neither would NAPA 7777), and the OEM-ordered hose will be here tomorrow. We did drive it out of the shop, though ;)

Why a GM PS pump? Two reasons: Pablo-UA had already done it, so I could see that it could be done and works.

Also, I did not do a great deal of JY research, but I know that the Saginaw PS pumps I've worked with might leak but never die and a reseal on them is so easy that anyone can do it. So, at the Portland Auto Swap Meet last April, I picked up one for $5. Therefore, I had it laying around.

Mark pretty much finished carving aluminum from the bracket tonight. That leaves some measuring for the correct depth to install the sheave, and the pressure hose, before bolting it back on.

This will finally banish the "Ford PS Pump" whine that I've lived with on both my Aeros for eight years! I've wanted to do it for at least six of those eight years, and having Pablo's example and this milling machine pushed me mover the edge.

If I was to do it again, I would probably look for a physically smaller pump though. It fits, but not leaving as much support as I'd like.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

rlaggren
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#8

Post by rlaggren » 12 years ago

Ah yes... The Whine.

I get warned about once a month that my PS pump on the Taurus is bad - ever since I got the car 4 years & 40k miles ago.

Good reason. <g>

Re. the 6.9 thermostat bypass in the housing, what you say sounds plausible. What I was trying to fix was an apparent cold running condition where according to the temp gauge the truck didn't reach 1/3 normal temp until 10 miles down the highway or never if I drove on level city streets.

Well it'll be at least a couple weeks b4 I know if it's changed because I'm heading to Chicago for T-day and then to Des Moine to pick up Steves 82 wagon. If all goes well, I'll be back before December and add a car to my sig.

Cheers, Rufus

pbknowles
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#9

Post by pbknowles » 12 years ago

Don't trust the factory temp gauges on these Fords, they are absolute crap, as are the oil pressure gauges. Although I once swung a great deal on an '86 F250 4x4 because the owner thought it had low oil pressure.....so the factory gauges are good for something!
SD22 powered '85 Chevy S-10

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kassim503
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Location: Stony Brook, NY

#10

Post by kassim503 » 12 years ago

pbknowles wrote:Don't trust the factory temp gauges on these Fords, they are absolute crap, as are the oil pressure gauges. Although I once swung a great deal on an '86 F250 4x4 because the owner thought it had low oil pressure.....so the factory gauges are good for something!
Lol my friends oil pressure gauge on his 96 bronco seems to be conencted to a on/off low oil pressure switch. When its cold or when its warm, you start it up, wait half a second, and itll snap to the middle. At 600 rpm and at 4500 itll be the same too, lol. You could be getting 6 psi at 5000 rpm, but thats just fine cause the gauge says its smack dab in the normal range! :D

All factory gauges are not really accurate, except for some of OEM mechanical style gauges, that I find work well. The electric ones are really only good enough to tell of you have oil pressure or not.
asavage wrote:This will finally banish the "Ford PS Pump" whine that I've lived with on both my Aeros for eight years! I've wanted to do it for at least six of those eight years, and having Pablo's example and this milling machine pushed me mover the edge.
They are pretty fairly annoying.

I was wondering, does anybody feel like there is a low pump pressure feel to the maxima's steering? I feel like there is a significantly higher amount of work needed to turn the wheel than some cars. It has been like this for quite a while, ever since I started driving this car some 4?? years ago. Anybody think I can just pull out a couple of washers in the pressure relif just to crank it up a little for a cheap fix. Im unsure if I can rebuild the pump without a press or alot of work, and ill be installing the new line this week, so I would be able to access the pressure relif valve with no extra work.
'83 maxima sedan, l24e, a/t, black

227K SOLD 6/7/2012

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asavage
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#11

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

For a number of years, Ford had an "oil pressure idiot gauge". My '89 Aero had one for the digital dash, and my '93 has one too.

The '89 had a chime that would sound if one of the four monitored functions went out of range, including oil pressure. Scared the bejesus out of me when the dash started chiming one day when I was towing a big trailer. The chiming starts, and the dash switches to the oil pressure display, with "one bar" showing (that's the OFF position). I pull off immediately and oil level is good, no unusual sounds, etc. A couple minutes later, the chiming stops and the gauge is up to four bars.

I changed the OP Sender and it didn't do it again -- for about two years, then it started doing it every so often. Put in another OPS, fixed again -- for another year.

Bought a real Ford one, got another two years, then a fourth one (from Ford again) and sold it before it died again.

Took a Dremel to the failed Ford one: it's a snap switch all right.

Image

Someone on FTE posted how to add a resistor and a real variable resistance OPS and convert the "oil pressure idiot gauge" to full-function, but the fix wouldn't work for my old digital dash. I'll have to look it up again for the '93, which has an analog "oil pressure idiot gauge" that is firmly fixed to between the "R" and "M" of "NORMAL".
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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