Constant Speed Diesel

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djekk
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Constant Speed Diesel

#1

Post by djekk » 14 years ago

I've acquired an 82 720 w/the 2.2L Diesel. The body is junk. I'm planning on using it as a prime mover for a generator. The generator will be either 540 or 1000 rpm input. I'll use the output of the tranny to drive it.

This engine does not have what I expected for a injector/governor setup. Anyone have any ideas on how to make this engine maintain a constant speed under varying load conditions?

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asavage
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#2

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

Belt-drive governor:

Image
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That's a VW diesel engine. Read the whole story here:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/jdunmyer/genset/

You can buy that governor off of eBay (End time: Mar-16-06 18:26:04 PST):
Image

Or a cheap Gravely governor:
Image
Last edited by asavage 14 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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Dslsmoke
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Re: Constant Speed Diesel

#3

Post by Dslsmoke » 14 years ago

djekk wrote: I'm planning on using it as a prime mover for a generator. The generator will be either 540 or 1000 rpm input. I'll use the output of the tranny to drive it.
Anyone have any ideas on how to make this engine maintain a constant speed under varying load conditions?
Funny you should mention this setup, as I'm looking at doing the same thing, only using it's bigger brother the SD 33 n/a.

Here is my post at another forum, so far I have not received any replies yet .........


OK, all you Diesel gurus out there, here is the direction of my new project using my spare SD33 n/a engine.

Given the fact that last year I was impacted by the wrath of 4 Hurricanes within a few weeks of each other, and lost power for up to 3 weeks at a time, (good thing for my little 6.5KW Yanmar Diesel Genny) I'm in the planning stage of building a home standby generator using the Nissan.

I found a decent deal on a new generator head www.gopower.com/prod/marathongeneratore ... _820_.html
like this one at a much lower pri$e, it comes with a SAE #4 adapter to hook up to the engine and most all other stuff needed for the job, however I have searched the net and have not found anything regarding speed controls or governors or something to maintain the proper rpm vs load when running.


Any of you have any suggestions?


Now these pictures are indeed interesting and open up some doors, any way possible to get more info?


Thanks:


Dslsmoke

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asavage
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Re: Constant Speed Diesel

#4

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

Dslsmoke wrote:Now these pictures are indeed interesting and open up some doors, any way possible to get more info?
Only the same way you would, via Google. I knew they existed, so I was able to kick Google into giving me that link, and then ten minutes on eBay found a couple of examples, but that's all I know about them.

Since you're where you are, have you read this story?
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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Dslsmoke
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Re: Constant Speed Diesel

#5

Post by Dslsmoke » 14 years ago

asavage wrote:
Dslsmoke wrote:Now these pictures are indeed interesting and open up some doors, any way possible to get more info?
Only the same way you would, via Google. I knew they existed, so I was able to kick Google into giving me that link, and then ten minutes on eBay found a couple of examples, but that's all I know about them.

Since you're where you are, have you read this story?

Oh! I see you visit the Lister forum also, Now isn't that a sweet looking and sounding setup? I even have that video clip saved in my pc for reference.

I've been lurking in that forum for sometime now and those Lister(oids) sure look interesting.

Well thanks for heads up, now I have something to look for in a governor that does not include electronics. :D


Dslsmoke

djekk
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#6

Post by djekk » 14 years ago

dslsmoke,

That's a 3 phase unit on the link - do you need 3 phase power?

As for a governor, I've got access to some electronic units but the problem with applying one of these is the actuator, as in motive force. I can't find any type of low cost electric actuator.

One suggestion was to use a cruise control unit. Anyone ever try that?

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Dslsmoke
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#7

Post by Dslsmoke » 14 years ago

djekk wrote:dslsmoke,

That's a 3 phase unit on the link - do you need 3 phase power?

As for a governor, I've got access to some electronic units but the problem with applying one of these is the actuator, as in motive force. I can't find any type of low cost electric actuator.

One suggestion was to use a cruise control unit. Anyone ever try that?

No! :( The one I'm looking at is a single phase unit, that's why the difference in price. :D

I was thinking about an automotive cruise control unit, but have not really gone that far with it yet, it should work, just bring the engine up to speed, set it and watch it work, when the load increases and rpm drops off some, the cruise control should bring it up to speed again like in a car.

Thanks:


Dslsmoke

glenlloyd
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#8

Post by glenlloyd » 14 years ago

djekk wrote:One suggestion was to use a cruise control unit. Anyone ever try that?
This was my first thought too, a cruise unit should be able to maintain engine speed, and with the cruise you could easily set it to run at different rpms as well.

The only problem I can see is that many of them are driven off of the speedo output, which in this case would require some type of custom drive unit.

I like the VW setup shown in the above images, but it appears that the engine has been mounted to the frame without the benefit of rubber motor mounts, which IMO would be a must.

just a few thoughts
steve a
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

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asavage
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#9

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

When mounted on floating mounts, the gen & engine have to be either direct coupled or subframed. If the frame is massive enough, isolation mounting isn't necessary.

The last aftermarket CC that I installed (AudioVox I think, last year) had provision for both VSS input and a discrete magnet/sensor input. I used the latter on the driveshaft (custom brackets though) for a '70s motorhome. Worked much better than other CCs I've installed.

I admit that I hadn't thought of using a CC in this app. I haven't seen a CC with a preset since the early '60s Cadillac units (mfgr'd by Perfect Circle). Bowden cable and dial control on the dash. Without a "speed" preset, how useful would a CC governor be? You'd have to do your setup every time you brought the genset up.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

glenlloyd
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Location:Des Moines, Iowa
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#10

Post by glenlloyd » 14 years ago

asavage wrote:When mounted on floating mounts, the gen & engine have to be either direct coupled or subframed. If the frame is massive enough, isolation mounting isn't necessary.
I would think however that in the case of direct mounting that one wouldn't want to use, as they have with the VW above, the original mounting brackets that were intended to be used with rubber mounts. Personally I would think these might be fairly weak for direct mount.

I would think they would have wanted to make some pretty healthy welded plate brackets in this case, instead of the OE mountings.
asavage wrote:The last aftermarket CC that I installed (AudioVox I think, last year) had provision for both VSS input and a discrete magnet/sensor input. I used the latter on the driveshaft (custom brackets though) for a '70s motorhome. Worked much better than other CCs I've installed.
I like the sensor / magnet input, fewer problematic components than cable driven. I have had numerous cable driven cruise units that have had problems.
asavage wrote:I admit that I hadn't thought of using a CC in this app. I haven't seen a CC with a preset since the early '60s Cadillac units (mfgr'd by Perfect Circle). Bowden cable and dial control on the dash. Without a "speed" preset, how useful would a CC governor be? You'd have to do your setup every time you brought the genset up.
Agreed, it has a few issues that would need to be worked out. But, with the conventional governor setup are these engines brought to operating rpm immediately upon startup? I personally would have a concern with running up to operating rpm immediately after startup...maybe unjustified.

Also, is the power generator directly coupled with the engine on these so when the engine starts the power generator runs as well? In other words, there's no clutch / drive assembly? Is this the case with all gensets?

thanks
steve a
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

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asavage
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#11

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

glenlloyd wrote:. . . the original mounting brackets that were intended to be used with rubber mounts. Personally I would think these might be fairly weak for direct mount.
Oh, I agree.
I like the sensor / magnet input . . .
The older units I've worked with all had pretty low sensitivity, meaning high drop-off. This last unit worked a lot better than others I've worked with. I was pleasantly surprised.
. . . with the conventional governor setup are these engines brought to operating rpm immediately upon startup? I personally would have a concern with running up to operating rpm immediately after startup...maybe unjustified.
The commercial units will do a warm-up period at reduced RPM, before coming up to speed and transferring the load. All the smaller units I've seen (ie <20kw) run up to operating RPM immediately.
. . . is the power generator directly coupled with the engine on these so when the engine starts the power generator runs as well? In other words, there's no clutch / drive assembly? Is this the case with all gensets?
Yes, and yes. Personally, I'd prefer a nice PTO clutch, but the only units I've seen to use one have actually been PTO-driven (ie connects to a tractor). If you don't have an electrical load on it, a generator is just a large rotating mass, so it's just more flywheel. If your starter can handle it, is there a downside to direct-drive?

A few years ago, I was going to build a 10 Kw genset using a Honda CX500 engine I had spare, and run it on propane, but didn't get as far with it as I'd like. Propane burns very clean compared to gasoline, requires no choke or cold start enrichment and no fast idle either. The CX500 makes its power up high though, I would have to run it in the 5-7k range, and though they are pretty quiet up there, now that I'm on the biodiesel bandwagon (ie carbon-neutral), my LPG hardware languishes on a shelf. Someday, maybe . . . but for a genset I might build, it's diesel, baby!

The Lister-clones are very attractive just from the funky/weirdness factor alone, but I want more output than the low-end Listers can provide; I need more HP. I think a turbo'd SD2x or similar is about ideal, though I have to run the numbers before settling on one or the other.

I want no less than 12Kw at the minimum. I had a 16HP/10Kw rig and for some things it was perfect, but as I wouldn't be having to move it I don't care what it weighs, and a heavier-but-higher-capacity unit would be my next genset. I've been looking at CraigsList and eBay for the perfect head.
Last edited by asavage 14 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

markus999
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#12

Post by markus999 » 13 years ago

djekk just curious if you were able to solve your governor issues?

I'm looking at doing the same thing but would like to setup the injection pump to do so.

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