R180/R190 LSD?

General information about the first-generation Nissan Maxima in the US. What was the Datsun 810 became the luxury leader Maxima in the US in 1981.

Moderators: plenzen, goglio704, glenlloyd, Nissan_Ranger

rlaggren
Posts: 541
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: San Francisco

#16

Post by rlaggren » 12 years ago

Kassim,

Why don't you like the ABS LDS approach? As I understand it, it seems ideal - completely free differential while driving, much more LSD torque (brake can be set to not slip at all when you need it. However I haven't ever driven one. The '69 Old88 I drove for 10 years in Chicago had LSD rear and would go forward through anything (snowy, that is; but it was a pretty heavy car and that probably helped too) but it also would tend to hop around corners on rainy pavement and it didn't take much to slide the rear end around when there was snow on the ground. I _think_ the ABS design would eleminate the cornering peculiarities.

Of course, it's another electronic box to fail. But OTOH it might be possible to program the things to vary the LSD affect.

Rufus

User avatar
kassim503
Posts: 1027
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Stony Brook, NY

#17

Post by kassim503 » 12 years ago

I have a friend of mine that has a some kind of Mercedes Benz, the new SUV one. Not the boxy one, the soccer mom variety SUV, and he was trying to show it off to me and a couple of people and he wound up getting it suck at the edge of a watering hole, and he couldnt get it out because it had traction control, and it would only let him spin one tire at a time at a slow speed. I think that if it was spinning one tire at breakneck speeds, it might of been able to dig trenches and mill its way out.

I think it would of worked a bit better if not all the wheels where in the goo, it would be able to give traction to one side of the car and would be able to pull itself out.

I think there is probably a way to turn it off, but we couldn't find a switch, so the car got out, but with tow straps.

My needs dont really have any cornering or high speed banking, which is where the ABS brake control come out to play. I just like to be able to accelerate off of lights in the snow and have a little bit more traction when im stuck. Also its another expensive box to break, so for me a simpler LSD that utilizes no feedback or a locker that uses mechanical feedback would be more ideal for me.
'83 maxima sedan, l24e, a/t, black

227K SOLD 6/7/2012

rlaggren
Posts: 541
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: San Francisco

#18

Post by rlaggren » 12 years ago

As I recall from a few years ago when I was investigating traction enhancers, the automatically engaging lockers have a _real_ kick when they engage that makes them actually somewhat dangerous if you are not familiar with what they do. And IIRC in a corner, they send all the power to the _inside_ wheel. I don't remember the details anymore, just my conclusion that if I ever got something like that it would be manually controlled. Then some kind of cut-out or warning is needed at higher speeds.

But I'm kinda not there any more, at least for the moment. That was just when gas started going way up and I my grand plans kinda washed away.

Rufus

User avatar
kassim503
Posts: 1027
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Stony Brook, NY

#19

Post by kassim503 » 12 years ago

Oh yea, sometimes if you do it right itll swing the rear end out while spinning both tires.

Mabye thats where drifting started? Ripping it up on a saturday night :D
'83 maxima sedan, l24e, a/t, black

227K SOLD 6/7/2012

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts: 5347
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#20

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

My '83 Chev G30 1T diesel van had the locking diff. Flyweight engagement: when one wheel spun a certain amount more than the other, the locking clutch locking one axle to the other would engage -- detented. Rear axle solid, and it stayed that way, until . . .

When both axles rotated at the same speed and over a certain RPM (25 MPH? 35 MPH?) another flyweight would disengage the clutch.

Kind of different to use in practice than a LSD. You'd spin one wheel in snow, bring the revs up a bit, and BANG! Now both wheels are spinning. Worked as designed.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

davehoos
Posts: 525
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Karuah Valley,NSW Australia
Contact:

#21

Post by davehoos » 12 years ago

and he couldnt get it out because it had traction control, and it would only let him spin one tire at a time at a slow speed.
classic-car gets stuck on front lawn or wet concrete driveway and needs a tow truck when driving on uneven ground like storm water[curb] drains.normall one big burn out and the car would have moved enough to get traction.

merc call it ESP or some other acronym you normally find a push button switch on the passenger side and a digital warning flashes on the dash to frighten the driver.these normally reset in case you forgot you needed it.
the classic is the a TV doc about a paris dakar atempt with a BMW X5 and a lack of method to find simple faults.

old types like lockers-cone-clutch that have a preset load.these destroy axles-tyres and are good for doughnuts.

modern LSD-visco LSD.spin the tyre intill the fliud heats up to aply tourque to oposite wheel or the other axle.
-normal type uses the force of the side gears to apply clutch pack on the side that has traction-no traction it will not lock but the wheels will be spinning any way.these are recomended for gravel roads and drag racing and its claimed that it helps with straight line stability.these can lift the inside wheel and spin on turns.normally found on light duty 4X4 like isuzu trooper[jackaroo/bighorn] jeep etc.these are the types that get bogged easy.

ABS has been around for ever it seams.when it became common here in OZ it was claimed that it reduced service costs,it did untill they fitted shorter life brake discs and pads and pump units that need constant repairs due to water/condensation.most fleet users pulled the electric controls and removed warning bulbs.this is OK but the car was built to suit the system working.

the main use of ABS is for slow suburban traffic and our rough/gravel hyway system.it took a long time to get euro/japanese systems to work here properly.we simply have very little snow to use it with and if it was [nsw/vic snow fields] it would be unlikely that snow tyres or chains would be also used.

N14 pulsar came with abs on high end models,you can hear the pump bashing away even at slower speed and car parks.same deal with the medium 4X4.my skyline had it as an option in 1985 but its so out of date compared to a modern system.
WCJR31 Skyline.3.0 manual.wagon
R31 SKYLINE/Passage GT/PINTARA
LPG Ford Falcon 99-06 93 Disco
Local Shire Southern Zone Mechanic.

rlaggren
Posts: 541
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: San Francisco

#22

Post by rlaggren » 12 years ago

You'd spin one wheel in snow, bring the revs up a bit, and BANG! Now both wheels are spinning.
That sounds like what I read. I decided I didn't want to go
Banging around. <g>

But how'd your van end up w/lockers? Don't recall that factory option...


Rufus[/quote]

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts: 5347
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#23

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

8600 GVW: it was an option. I don't recall too much about it except that it was in the GM Factory manual for the G-series vans. Drove it from '93 to 2000 as a DD, but it was just too large for me at that point, at 5750 lbs. empty with me and 33 gals. of fuel onboard. 19.1 MPG average over the last 80k miles.

Sold it and bought the grey '89 Aero, which got 21 MPG and half the power :( but it had much better seats, and that made all the difference, I guess.

rlaggren
Posts: 541
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: San Francisco

#24

Post by rlaggren » 12 years ago

8600 GVW: it was an option. I don't recall too much about it except that it was in the GM Factory manual for the G-series vans. Drove it from '93 to 2000 as a DD, but it was just too large for me at that point, at 5750 lbs. empty with me and 33 gals. of fuel onboard. 19.1 MPG average over the last 80k miles.
WhaaPoosh !

There go my socks knocked clean off! Boy, I could start talking GM again - or was that just you sneaking up on 50mph after 10 minutes on the highway? <G>

Rufus[/quote]

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts: 5347
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#25

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

Not sure what you mean, Rufus.

My G30 was about 150 HP. Due to the 700R4 trans, with the accel right on the floor it would hit the engine governor at 88 MPH. If I backed off the accel just enough to allow the trans to upshift to OD, it would creep up to 91/92 MPH. This isn't bad, considering a G-series van has the aerodynamics of a shoebox.

Smoke level was quite minimal, unless I didn't push it much for several days, then ran it up to the governor for a "clean out" of the exhaust system, and then it would smoke like a Maxima diesel! But only once.

That was a good van, for what it was. Dad and his wife bought it new in '83, used it until '92 for hauling antiques etc. around and as her DD. Got t-boned by a flatbed and insurance totalled with only 30k on it, they had minimal sheet metal replaced and repainted, and drove it up to 102k, whence I bought it from them in Jan-93. I drove it as a DD until 1996 when I bought the '82 Maxima Wagon, and it got driven less and less until I bought the Grey '89 Aero in '99 and sold the G30 in 2000 for $1100 with about 180k on it. By that time, it needed its third set of matched Delcos (previous set died at eight years) and the windscreen was leaking badly enough that if I didn't drive it all the time, mold was starting on the interior (I had had it to three shops to seal the minor water leak, none fixed it).

It was a good van, but at the time I couldn't see a need for it anymore. Now, I'm looking for the same engine/trans to put in a '67-72 Chev C10 PU. If only I'd kept the G30 . . .

Some pictures from when I had it for sale are here. The pics are directly after it had sat for six months over winter, and right after washing but not waxing it. It had all the power options -- it was supposed to be a conversion RV van, so it was bought as bare-metal from the back of the front seats on back. Dad had 3/4" plywood put down on the floor and lighter plywood on the walls & ceiling, then shag carpet over that, with structural tie hooks into the struts. Great for hauling things, except the rear air cut the height to get stuff through the back barn doors. In particular, a queen-size mattress had to be loaded through the side door, it would not fit in the rear door. And the rear heater housing never fit right after the accident, but it worked OK.

This was the van from which my lifetime collection of heirloom-quality tools were stolen in Bellingham, Wash. in 1999. I am still reaching for tools I don't own anymore, even all these years later . . .
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

glenlloyd
Posts: 640
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Contact:

#26

Post by glenlloyd » 12 years ago

Al
Did your van have air suspension up front? I seem to recall test driving a G30 diesel van years ago and when I started it the front end came up.

steve a
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts: 5347
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#27

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

No air suspension in the G30.

My '59 Cadillac Eldorado Seville had all air suspension.

rlaggren
Posts: 541
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: San Francisco

#28

Post by rlaggren » 12 years ago

Not sure what you mean, Rufus.
I was ooing and ahing over 19 miles to the gallon w/out realizing it was a diesel. <g> Still sounds like a real good van. I'll be happy as a clam if I get 17mpg from the 86 ford 6.9 e350 I'm cleaning up - kinda doubtful w/a C6. Got to be considerable better than 9mpg I'm getting from an 89 5.8 e350, though.

Cheers, Rufus

glenlloyd
Posts: 640
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Contact:

#29

Post by glenlloyd » 12 years ago

asavage wrote:My '59 Cadillac Eldorado Seville had all air suspension.
Now that's a land yaht! Probably felt like you were riding on a pillow!

steve a
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts: 5347
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#30

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

The Cadillac rode pretty much like its coil-sprung brethren. The ride quality is in the shocks in that year, not the springing medium. What was nice was the automatic leveling (no matter how many bodies were put in the trunk, it remained level), and the big, chrome lever on the dash that let me move the car up & down almost three inches.

But after all the years, the levelling valves were very leaky. Frame on the ground every morn.

Rufus, you should plan on about 15-17 MPG in your E350 w/6.9 w/C6. No OD.

My G30 was a smaller engine (6.2l vs 6.9l) and had OD in the 700R4.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest