Small overheating problem

General information about the first-generation Nissan Maxima in the US. What was the Datsun 810 became the luxury leader Maxima in the US in 1981.

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kassim503
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#61

Post by kassim503 » 14 years ago

Crazy thing happend today, was sitting at a light, enjoying the surprisingly cool weather- around 80-85, not bad at all, A/C off, windows down. I only stopped once at the light behind me since the car started up for the day, and when I glanced down at the water temp gauge- the needle was almost touching the top of the scale! Blew the light and stopped at a gas station immediatley (300 feet away). Sat there for a half hour or so, put some gas in and decided to go over to the cvs pharmacy, mabye 1/10th a mile away, it had a parking lot where I could diagnose what happend. Just in that 1/10th of a mile the needle went from 3/4 to full, I tell you its quite the experience. Got there, opened the hood and started releasing the pressure from the cap, the coolant boiled over and I lost quite a bit to the atmoshpere. Took about a gallon of straight water to fill it up. What I did notice is that the fan clutch wasnt engaging the fan when it was overheating. My guess is that the car overheated because of the lack of the airflow- then the coolant boiled over as the temp went above the boiling point- ill check whats it good for tommorow. Thing that was werid is that later on in the day I ran the a/c to see if the clutch would actually engage, and it did, after I ran the a/c the fan clutch was mosty functional, like it would turn on once the engine gets up to speed. But the fan seems to be a bit less noisy than usual, I remember really hearing the fan roar but now it makes noise but its more like a whine. Mabye my fan clutch is bad, I think im going to just wait for the flex fan to get here from ebay, I dont think I really have to drive far this week.
'83 maxima sedan, l24e, a/t, black

227K SOLD 6/7/2012

Carimbo
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#62

Post by Carimbo » 14 years ago

kassim503 wrote: I dont think I really have to drive far this week.
Seems like you've been going all around and around on your meandering problem isolation path. If you are pegging the temp gauge needle DO NOT drive the car until you fix it, otherwise you are in for a much bigger problem. I wonder how many engines have been ruined just by "trying to make it to the nearest offramp."

Of course, maybe I have misread your statement; maybe you are planning not to drive it.

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kassim503
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#63

Post by kassim503 » 14 years ago

Naw, im not planning on going anywhere this week. Take the train to work, and I got sombody carpooling with me to the train station, so I really dont have to do any driving. Puzzling thing is that I cannot replicate the problem, idled it on the driveway, drove it around the neighborhood, with the a/c on and the a/c off, and it holds the temp just like before. I even pushed it by revving it in drive with the brake on, and it holds temp fine. But the fan clutch only turns on when the a/c is on, I think the fan clutch is engaging at a higher temperature than it should.
'83 maxima sedan, l24e, a/t, black

227K SOLD 6/7/2012

diesel-man
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#64

Post by diesel-man » 14 years ago

The problem is the fan clutch is slipping inside. To repair it one would need to take the 8 bolts out and split it in half in the horizontal position, lest the fluid run out. Then center punch the "water pump" shaft to the disc inside at about 20 places or so.

You will not have success until you either replace it or repair it.

This post should go in the sticky section.

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kassim503
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#65

Post by kassim503 » 14 years ago

diesel-man wrote:The problem is the fan clutch is slipping inside. To repair it one would need to take the 8 bolts out and split it in half in the horizontal position, lest the fluid run out. Then center punch the "water pump" shaft to the disc inside at about 20 places or so.

You will not have success until you either replace it or repair it.

This post should go in the sticky section.
Yeah I was thinking something was up with the clutch, never took one apart before but its not like im going to make it any worse. What if I just bolted down the water pump shaft to the rest of the housing? So it can stay on all the time

Its up to 5 pages already, wow!

Oh I sighted a grey datsun maxima sedan/gas today!
'83 maxima sedan, l24e, a/t, black

227K SOLD 6/7/2012

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#66

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

kassim503 wrote:What if I just bolted down the water pump shaft to the rest of the housing? So it can stay on all the time
No! That fan is not designed to be run at high speed, ever. Neither its pitch nor hub are designed for it. And the loading on the water pump would be immense. The blades are not designed to flex to reduce capacity at high RPM, they're designed to do a good job at relatively low speed.

Just buy the damned fan clutch, replace the radiator, and get on with it already -- you are dancing around the problem, and second-guessing Nissan's engineers by putting a brightly-colored piece of fibreglas on the WP isn't fixing the problem, merely masking it.

Sorry -- I had to say it.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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philip
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#67

Post by philip » 14 years ago

kassim503 wrote:Naw, im not planning on going anywhere this week. Take the train to work, and I got sombody carpooling with me to the train station, so I really dont have to do any driving. Puzzling thing is that I cannot replicate the problem, idled it on the driveway, drove it around the neighborhood, with the a/c on and the a/c off, and it holds the temp just like before. I even pushed it by revving it in drive with the brake on, and it holds temp fine. But the fan clutch only turns on when the a/c is on, I think the fan clutch is engaging at a higher temperature than it should.
Image
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

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kassim503
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#68

Post by kassim503 » 14 years ago

I decided to follow al's advice and went about finishing this problem- I guess if it isnt obious already im almost completley ignoring the problem, got bigger projects around the home that really need my attention.

Got a clutch from NAPA- brand was hayden (4 seasons), For the Rad im going to try to call up the place listed in this thread way back. When I pulled the fan I noticed there were cracks in the fan- some where just small stress "whiting" and there is 2 medium sized cracks and one giant crack, they all happend in the same place fore/aft of a blade. Since its just plain stupid to run a fan like that I bolted up a electric puller fan and wired it to a rocker switch in the cabin. Took it out for a drive, it makes the cooling sytem bulletproof, needle smack in the middle all the time. Adore the high quality of my camera below, one zoomed out and one zoomed in

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'83 maxima sedan, l24e, a/t, black

227K SOLD 6/7/2012

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kassim503
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#69

Post by kassim503 » 14 years ago

When I pull the head, would I, for any reason have to pull the front cover off? Gotta try to figure out what gaskets I have to order.

Also in the 83 fsm on pg em-5, it says to lock the camshaft underer step (1) for removing internal parts- whats the right way to do that? I heard about some kind of steel wedge to ram between something- but it could of been a figment of my imagination.also under step c. on EM-6 for removing the timing chain it says support timing chain by placing Tool between timing chains they labled the tool as kv10105800 (sti7420001), This tool looks a whole lot like a block of wood, can I just use a block of wood?

And one last thing, which is a better gasket, Nissan brand(dealership) or Fel-Pro(NAPA)? Or any other brands come out on top (mr.gasket, ishino)? I prefer to do jobs like this once
'83 maxima sedan, l24e, a/t, black

227K SOLD 6/7/2012

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asavage
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#70

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

I haven't done this job on the L24e, but I have on the older L16/18/20.
kassim503 wrote:When I pull the head, would I, for any reason have to pull the front cover off?
No -- unless you drop the chain tensioner out. See below.
Also in the 83 fsm on pg em-5, it says to lock the camshaft underer step (1) for removing internal parts- whats the right way to do that?
Typical shop practice would be to use a zip gun (powered impact wrench). As the sprocket has handy holes, I would think that a suitable bar (such as a 12" 1/2" socket extension) could be placed through one to lock the sprocket's movement. What is to be avoided is high loading on the chain itself. Generally, the bolt is not all that tight -- though I had one on a B230F Volvo a couple of weeks ago for which I had to make a special holding tool -- it was in very tight and even having a helper on hand didn't help until I fabricated a torque stop from some angle iron that I bolted to the sprocket.
also under step c. on EM-6 for removing the timing chain it says support timing chain by placing Tool between timing chains they labled the tool as kv10105800 (sti7420001), This tool looks a whole lot like a block of wood, can I just use a block of wood?
Yes. On the smaller L-series engines, I think it's more wedge-shaped than rectangular as shown in the illustration. Getting this one to fit well is a priority. If the chain is allowed enough slack, the hydraulic chain tensioning mechanism will come apart and drop into the oil pan, significantly adding to the amount of work. At least, if it's like the older engine that's the case.
And one last thing, which is a better gasket, Nissan brand(dealership) or Fel-Pro(NAPA)?
I don't know which is better, but those are the only two brands I seek to use.
If you don't have a machinist's straight edge, be certain to have someone check the head for warpage. Or go directly to having the head surfaced. The cost is low compared to having to do it again.

What I'm afraid you might find is a large amount of head gasket surface corrosion. It is sometimes not possible to repair a head gasket leak in that case.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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kassim503
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#71

Post by kassim503 » 14 years ago

I will check for straightness with a straightedge for the block and the head- no sense in doing it twice. Also while im at it I might replace the valve stem seals, no machining of seats though.

Completley off topic- When I plug in one router to another router, how come the computers connected to the 2nd router are not able to do any online video gaming or anything? I heard of port fowarding but I dont understand how to use it. Anybody computer savvy that knows what im talking about? Online gaming was a little hobby of mine and I want to play again.


Oh and the routers are a lynksys wireless wrouter and a netgear router is connected to port 1 of the lynksys.
'83 maxima sedan, l24e, a/t, black

227K SOLD 6/7/2012

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#72

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

kassim503 wrote:I will check for straightness with a straightedge for the block and the head- no sense in doing it twice.
I don't check the block. It's cast iron. If it's warped, you'd know by now. Or maybe I'm just lazy.
Oh and the routers are a lynksys wireless wrouter and a netgear router is connected to port 1 of the lynksys.
I refuse to entertain discussion of routers here. It was bad enough when I was in the business . . . it has only gotten worse. I suggest you seek the answers to your router Qs elsewhere. Broadband Reports' forums come to mind, but there are dozens.

Don't take this personally -- but there is better router info in other places, and I don't want this already bloated thread to degenerate into, "I did it this way", "This is the way it should be done", "Brand X routers are crap, give up and buy Brand Y," and so forth. You can get that anywhere; here is for certain Nissan diesels, and to a lesser extent Gen1 Maximas, 720 PUs, and we tolerate a few digressions WRT the Wider Life. But routers . . . no: too far.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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#73

Post by TheDieseliminator » 14 years ago

kassim503 wrote:also under step c. on EM-6 for removing the timing chain it says support timing chain by placing Tool between timing chains they labled the tool as kv10105800 (sti7420001), This tool looks a whole lot like a block of wood, can I just use a block of wood?


kassim, basically they are telling you to use a block of wood and it's acceptable to use one. It would be much nicer to have that exact specific tool to hold the chain up, but unless you've owned one from when the car was new I wouldn't worry about it. According to a Chilton's manual I own they tell you to use a block of wood, but then again that is a less informative workshop manual than a factory Nissan workshop manual. I am the person which has done this same job you plan to do, but did it on my diesel powered car. My fiasco of posts was posted in a thread titled "Cylinder head needed" and it's located in the Peddle/Procure forum. What my dad and I did was we also used a block of wood to hold up on the timing chain when the cylinder head was removed. Turned out our piece of wood was not good enough and over time of sitting (2-3 good weeks) the chain had lost some slack. When we went to install the replacement cylinder head we could never get the chain up over the sprocket to properly get the job done. Make sure you use a block of wood that is so tight in that confined space that the chain is being pulled on to where there is no chance it loses tension enough to screw you like it did with us. Turns out the chain tensioner dropped out like Al has stated could possibly happen above. Somehow my dad was able to do surgery with a long screwdriver, a small, flexible light, and a long metal kitchen tool we adapted to refit the tensioner in its "home base" or mounting hole you could say for a better description. I'm not sure what to think the condition of your head will be in (given it's aluminum unfortunately), but turned out I thought I had blew the head gasket for sure on my diesel Maxima. It ended up being that and a cracked cylinder head. And the diesel heads are cast iron! I still feel like an idiot til this day for cracking it too. Aluminum sure doesn't help any when you're hoping for no cracks. But to give you experienced advice, I did want to let you know to keep as much tension on the chain for when the cylinder head is off so you are in good shape to successfully install the chain over the sprocket. Hope it all goes well for you.
kassim503 wrote:And one last thing, which is a better gasket, Nissan brand(dealership) or Fel-Pro(NAPA)?
I went with a Fel-Pro head gasket for the new replacement when we recently did the work on my engine. From the looks of the gasket it really didn't look to be a bad part by any means. I was really debating on whether to go with Nissan or not, but ended up going to the Fel-Pro because it was cheaper for me to do at that time of being hard on money to get the car back to running again. The design and quality of the Fel-Pro seemed to be very good and I haven't had any issues yet after about 5,700 trouble-free miles. It is your choice, but thought I'd let you know that the Fel-Pro isn't really that bad to consider over the factory Nissan part. Good luck!

Salvy

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kassim503
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#74

Post by kassim503 » 14 years ago

I was worried about a cracked cyl head- but the only thing that keeps me from thinking about that is at the width of the gap between the #6 piston and the coolant passageway is pretty small- call it ignorance, its peace of mind for me.

Im worried about warpage/cracking though, the car has been running hotter than operating temp many times more than I can count on my fingers, and it has been overheated once, not good. When I pull the head ill check its condition and if its bad, I might just buy one off ebay, something nice and new/low miles/rebuilt instead of machining the old one.

Ordered Fel-Pro from Napa- all the seals should be here around the weeks end.

Does anybody know why Napa didnt carry any viton valve stem seals? It was NLA, and does anybody know where I can get ahold of a set? I prefer viton seals for moving-stationary connections, because thats where rubber really dosent shine through.
'83 maxima sedan, l24e, a/t, black

227K SOLD 6/7/2012

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asavage
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#75

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

NAPA? For Fel-Pro? I don't recall them having access to Fel-Pro. Victor, yes, but Fel-Pro?

[later]

I don't see anything but NGA (Victor) and BA (Beck-Arnley) in the online lookup. Is your local NAPA bringing it in as a Special Order (outside of the NAPA distribution network)?

I don't think that viton is a whole lot better than buna for resistance to abrasion, but viton is definitely better for temperature.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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