Hitachi starter variations

[asavage]

The SD apparently has at least two major variations of starters supplied with them: gear-reduction (GR) and direct-drive (DD).

In the pics below, the DD starter is a Hitachi S12-68B.



As is typical for me, the GR starter I acquired from a 720 SD at the JY has a bad solenoid. For those of you following along, this is after two LD starters I have had bad solenoids, so this was kind of expected: those who have do tend to get.




Nissan No. 23300-31W02
That number does not run through nismoparts.com, so this may not be a starter supplied for the auto market in the US.



Local supplier got the correct solenoid for me again. For the search engine:
REXCO SSHI-807
Hitachi solenoid for the S12/S13 series, 12V
About $30

There are two varieties. One has a rectangular hole at the end of the plunger; this one is aitch-shaped ("H").



Don't lose the gasket, I don't know where you'd get another one. I'd probably RTV it if I didn't have one.



A bit of teflon grease at the friction points:



This solenoid is considerably easier to mount to the lever and frame than the LD28 version.




Dissecting the dead solenoid (clicks and moves but no current to motor). First, a bit of work on the bandsaw to remove the housing crimp:



Plunger contact is OK, but the step on this fixed contact is quite bad, and the other contact is hardly worn.

[davehoos]

SD25 for 140/W40 in 1988 is S12-63C cant find any old specs.

[philip]

How or could one ... reduce the typical arcing and erosion occuring? A big capacitor? Just wondering

[asavage]

A recent starter I picked up on eBay, no numbers or branding on it whatsoever.

Condition: Remanufactured

Up for sale is a Remanufactured Nissan Starter Lester # 16771 that fits the following applications:

NISSAN Car & Lt Trk 720 PICKUP 2.2L (Diesel) 1981-1983
NISSAN IND Ag & Industrial LIFT TRUCKS F01 SD22 Diesel Engine
LIFT TRUCKS F02 SD25 Diesel Engine
LIFT TRUCKS H01 SD25 Diesel Engine
LIFT TRUCKS H02 SD25 Diesel Engine
LIFT TRUCKS QF02 SD22 Diesel Engine
LIFT TRUCKS QF02 SD23 Diesel Engine
LIFT TRUCKS Various Models S23 Diesel Engine
LIFT TRUCKS Various Models SD22 Diesel Engine
LIFT TRUCKS Various Models SD25 Diesel Engine
YANMAR Ag & Industrial ENGINES Various Models 3T95L

Now that it's here, I think that it's too large physically to be anything but a forklift starter.




Unfortunately, though it seemed to be well packed, it arrived damaged:


The Seller, noting this damage, refunded the entire amount, including shipping, so in effect it's free (for what it's worth). If I can source a replacement solenoid . . .

It does not look like a Hitachi, to my thinking.

[davehoos]

1985 specs.
SD23 CEDRIC S13-38B

SD23/25 720 GENERAL
S12-68B
720 Europe S13-45B

E23-F22-H40-W40 S12-63C
EUROPE S13-38A/S13-38B

LD20 U11 S114-395/S13-81 C120 S114-367/S13-66
LD20T S114-367/S13-66
LD28 S13-64/M2T54881

[plenzen]

This monster looks the same size as the one that the local rebuilder was going to give me. I thought it was just me thinking that it would be too big but ?? I do however think that if you removed the exhaust that it might fit in, but I also think that the body of it might be pretty close to the header pipe. I don’t know about the SD22's but the 25 that I have does have a heat shield on the pipe where it goes around the starter.
Any chance of a comparison photo with the "Correct" DD starter.

Paul

[asavage]

Any chance of a comparison photo with the "Correct" DD starter?

While I don't know if this is a "correct" DD starter, but it was installed on an SD22 in a JY, so perhaps it's a fair comparison, perhaps not. Hitachi S12-68B DD starter on right:
(click on any image for larger)




Hitachi GR starter on right:

[asavage]

I dropped off the eBay starter at my local rebuilder. Colin shook his head at it. Says it looks like someone bought new Delco field casings -- which are fairly cheap, he said -- and cast new noses and fabricated the connecting bits. He does not know if he can source a solenoid. And he was surprised at the whole thing.

It does not appear to be a Nissan or Hitachi part at this point.

[ecomike]

I have run into a problem with these variations. Since my old starter came loose (I have been working on drilling out the busted, sheared mounting bolt, followed by a helicoil installation), I ran down to Autozone and swapped out the very old, very tired looking DD Hitachi starter. Figured I would get a lifetime warranty freshly rebuilt one in there while I had the old one loose. I let them sell me on the gear driven version they had in stock, convinced me it was a better starter.....

Well I tried to install it last night and it turns out the gear version is about 1/4" (or better yet 1/2") too long to fit mine. The rear motor housing hits my engine mounts (keep in mind my SD-22 is custom installed in an 85 jeep). Seems the gear version has a slightly lower hanging motor and the motor is maybe an inch longer than the DD version.

Like an idiot I decided to turn in the old DD starter core when I picked up the gear drive starter 3 weeks ago. Now I can't seem to find anyone that stocks the DD model starter, and it's way too late to get my old corr back, it's long gone.

I am not crazy about the idea of cutting 1/2" of metal out of the 1/4" thick steel plate motor mount bracket.

So I am on the hunt for a properly rebuilt DD Hitachi starter. Any suggestions on where to get one, ready to go.

[plenzen]

I wonder if the SD 25 starter is actually shorter. Not the ones that they list on NAPA web site as I have looked at them, and they are the same as the SD22 versions. ( 446011 NAPA) The one that I have is more like the LD series starter. I believe it is shorter. The Hitachi number on it is S13-92A. Might be worth a try.

Paul

[asavage]

I have that DD SD Hitachi starter pictured above, up in the attic, new solenoid and bench tested OK, which I could sell you as-is for $75 plus shipping, or I can have Colin go through it and rebuild it. Colin is not cheap, but he is good. Want me to call him and get a quote?

Moral of your story is: don't turn in the cores! Carimbo had the same experience as you on his LD28 starter.

[ecomike]

I have that DD SD Hitachi starter pictured above, up in the attic, new solenoid and bench tested OK, which I could sell you as-is for $75 plus shipping, or I can have Colin go through it and rebuild it. Colin is not cheap, but he is good. Want me to call him and get a quote?

Moral of your story is: don't turn in the cores! Carimbo had the same experience as you on his LD28 starter.

Al,

Thanks for the offer, I was seriously considering it, inspite of todays freight rates. I got lucky today and found a local, old style starter - alternator shop, called Finches, it looked like something from the 50's or 60's, also looked like my shop, LOL.

Anyway he actually had a rebuilt Hitachi S12-68B sitting on his shelf ready to go. Seems it had been there for many years. He re-checked it out and I have it now, getting ready to install it. Just about the time I picked it up NAPA called me at a store about 70 miles from me saying they finally had a DD Bosch that was a direct swap for the Hitachi DD. The Bosch number was SR146X, for $89.99.

I never followed up on this but the O'Reiley's parts guy gave me this lead on another source for the DD starter:

Part #91-25-1034, Wilson (brand), in Winnipeg-Manitoba, at 204-667-5535.

I found about 7 different starters listed on the NAPA site for the 1982 SD-22 in the 720 Nissan pickup. Everyone looked different.

I also found these, note that the #16771 seems to be universal part number of some sort for the Hitachi S12-68B starter:

http://www.limbat.com.sg/htm1/snissan.htm

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/N ... id+-+Remfd

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/N ... SubCatId=4

Lastly, Mr. Finch, the shop owner, told me that the $89 starter I bought from Autozone (the gear drive version you have pictured above) currently sells for $389 for use on Caterpillar tractors. He said it's the same starter!

Thanks again for the offer of help Al. Your alls pictures here and part numbers were a big help.

Oh, and Plenzen, the Hitachi DD is about 3/4" shorter than the gear drive version.

[ecomike]

Well the only fun I had with this repair was hearing the starter work and the engine start in 1.5 seconds! Got it fixed! The starter works great.

That top bolt is a real pain to install.

I did have to drill (Deep!), tap and install a thread insert (stainless Helicoil) for the bottom bolt after drilling out the remains of the busted bolt. First time I ever had to use one of those helicoils. I managed to stay with the same, OEM, bolt size using the Helicoil! I think they were a 10-1.5 metric bolts IIRC. I was concerned about drilling out the steel bolt remains that was stuck in the aluminum bell housing.

Moral of this story is, with these rattlers as Al so fondly calls them, is to check the starter for loose bolts periodically. Just takes a few left handed right angle mirrors in the right places to eyeball that top bolt!

[asavage]

Plenzen (Paul) visited me Saturday to pick up his eBay starter from last year, and we put the "new" supposedly SD25 GR starter next to one of my JY SD22 GR starters, and the SD25 GR starter is shorter than the SD22 GR starter, plus the solenoid is on the "other" side of the top ear, making the solenoid closer to the block. I took a couple comparison pics but I left the camera at work.

[ecomike]

Well I may be back in the FORD (Fix Or Repair Daily) Hitachi starter business.
Last three mornings, first start attempts I got either a high rpm spin sound, or a grinding sound on the first 3 start attempts. 4th attempt it started right up. During the day, the rest of the start attempts where flawless. I checked the battery, alternator, glow plug load...battery voltage, cranking battery voltage while glow plugs were powered, and so far it looks like a solenoid problem as all the rest is in great shape. When it screws up the starter motor is always turning, but just not engaged.

I am praying it just got some PB blaster penlube oil in it during the manifold bolts removeal ordeal, and maybe just needs drying out in the contact area. I washed it down from the out side with brake cleaner in the areas where the penlube would have drained on to it. If it continues to act up I will be pulling it asap to inspect the solenoid.