Starter Sticking

SD diesels were widely available in the US in the 1981-86 Datsun/Nissan 720 pickups, and in Canada through '87 in the D21 pickup.

Moderators:plenzen, Nissan_Ranger

Post Reply
plenzen
Posts:869
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Cochrane Alberta Canada
Starter Sticking

#1

Post by plenzen » 13 years ago

Well I got my rebuilt starter, put it in, and it just clicked once. I tried it again and it engaged, and cranked, and then would not shut off. I had to pull the battery terminals to get it to stop. (Solenoid stuck closed) I believe that the pinion was jammed or stuck into the ring gear too far? (Like the old chevys used to do) I removed the starter and bench tested it and it works fine. I re-installed it and same thing again. I then loosened the two mounting bolts a couple of turns each and it works just fine. I believe that the rebuilders may not have adjusted the solenoid correctly or have made it so it engages the pinion too far??. This is what I suspect. Has anyone dealt with this before? With the bolts backed out a couple of turns each it seems to work as it should. I cranked it at least a dozen times and no problemo. Hmm??
Al?
Phillip??
Anyone?
Will I just make and install a couple of .030 (or so)shims over the bolts and between the nose and the bell housing and bolt her up?. Or should I try and explain it to the rebuilder. (you would think that they would know this,,,, but ???) Might be as much as .050. Will still keep the spigot engaged in the bell housing, wont move it that far. The FSM says that there is in fact an engagement length but I cant seem to get my brain around how they are telling you to do it or how to even measure it.
On the positive side I can now get a starter in and out of an SD25 in about 15 minutes

Paul
Retired Pauly
Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#2

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

Your symptom sounds like insufficient pinion gear-to-ring gear clearance. On the SDs, this is not adjustable. I suspect your rebuilder installed an incorrect pinion gear. If it was me, I'd have them dbl-check that first, preferably by inspecting your old one -- but you probably don't have access to that any more.

Second choice would be to oval the mounting holes in the starter's housing, to allow the starter to move away from the ring gear slightly.

The adjustment mentioned in the FSM is the clearance between the pinion gear (and its bushing) and what is basically the end of the armature: the "pinion stopper" (a cup-shaped thrust washer with a clip retaining it to the armature). This clearance is adjusted by changing the number and thickness of the gasket between the solenoid ("magnetic switch") and its mounting (the housing).

I'm very short on time right now, or I'd scan the FSM and put an arrow on it, but it is shown. Good luck.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

plenzen
Posts:869
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Cochrane Alberta Canada

#3

Post by plenzen » 13 years ago

The saga continues. I sent the starter back to the Re-builders and they said that they had removed the shim from the starter, but I am not certain as to why. (third party involved here). In any event, they say that it should have worked and sent me a brand new starter at the same price for me to try. (smokin deal!!) The trouble shooting section in the FSM states that if the problems that I was having are/is present, then the distance "L" ( I cant make the same symbol that they have) is incorrect, and to use shims to adjust.
Wife picked up new starter today and I have a few pics of it. It is strange looking to say the least, but, if the engine block or the exhaust were not in the way it would bolt right up!!. Bummer!!! I now have to wait till Monday to send this danged thing back. The one I got I think might be from a fork lift application or ???
Anyone got any ideas as to what it might be from. :?:
The pinion is right, the bolt pattern is right, it’s just the exhaust is in the way one way, and if I turn it over, the engine block is in the way the other.
I also posted some pics of the OE starter. All I think was wrong with it was the sprague clutch inside was slipping on occasion and making a grinding type of noise.
MAN!!!!!
Grrr!!!! :evil:
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
Last edited by plenzen 13 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Retired Pauly
Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN

plenzen
Posts:869
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Cochrane Alberta Canada

#4

Post by plenzen » 13 years ago

OK! The weird looking starter is in fact for a fork lift application. Too bad it wont fit becasue I think it is a pretty good starter. I had to eventualy elongate the holes on the OE starter body in order to "Roll" it away slightly from the ring gear. I belive that Al was right in that the new pinion was a slightly bigger diameter, maybe only a mil or so but enough to not let it engage all the time. It works about 90% of the time and the other 10% I have to cycle the key a bunch of times to get it to engage. I am hopeful that it will eventualy wear in, it seems to have gotten a little better over the past day or so already. The old pinion was long gone by Saturday when I went in to whine about it. I have contacted a NAPA US store in Montana. They were trying to find a NAPA Raylock GR 44-6011 rebuilt or event the Raylock 244-6011 and so far no luck. I was advised that the 44-6011 is on a Nation Wide Back Order with no delivery date specified. The guy at the NAPA store figures they are out of cores. I looked at a DD unit at the local rebuilders and it is a massive starter by comparison. I don’t think that I would be able to get it in without releasing the exhaust from the manifold and we all know that he bolts will simply break off in that exercise. I have been put on a waiting list for the NAPA Raylock starter but I aint holding my breath.

Paul
Retired Pauly
Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN

User avatar
philip
Posts:1494
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Southern California, USA

#5

Post by philip » 13 years ago

Al shows you what you need to know about SD22 and SD25 starters and starter variations
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#6

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

This starter . . .
Image

. . . . to me looks like a Toyota starter.

plenzen
Posts:869
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Cochrane Alberta Canada

#7

Post by plenzen » 13 years ago

He had 3 listings for starters in his book for SD25. He had only two listed for truck applications and and this one listed for Fork Lift. He was hoping that it would go in the truck. I guess the exhaust manifold on the FL is slightly different. This one was real close to fitting and was only out by the width of a bolt hole. You could not rotate it enough as it hit on the header pipe.
Paul
Retired Pauly
Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#8

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

Take a look at this forklift version of the exhaust manifold, and this may begin to make sense:

Image

plenzen
Posts:869
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Cochrane Alberta Canada

#9

Post by plenzen » 13 years ago

YUP! That starter that I had would fit in under there is a heart beat. I always wondered if a fork lift starter would work and now I know. When I elongated the mounting holes I also had to die grind out a bit of the plate hole that fits between the block and the bell housing. I bet I had that danged starter in and out 40 times before it is where it is at now. I also ended up leaving the oil pressure line to the alt. un-hooked once and that was one of the only times that the darn thing engaged. MESSY!!!

Paul
Retired Pauly
Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests