My car died! Not sure whats up......

[83_maxima]

So you are not going to operate under the assumption that the "diesel fuel addatives" are pre filtered?

[asavage]

No! Absolutely not! If it doesn't need to be free of crap, it's not going to be, because filtering costs more. "All" diesel engines have fine filtration commensurate with what the IP needs, and additive mfgrs know this.

No, I would not assume that additive products (or fuel, for that matter) are clean enough for an IP to ingest without further filtering.

[83_maxima]

The point is quite valid.

Mityvac on the return line seems just as simple...had never heard/thought about it.

[Carimbo]

When I change diesel filters, I don't prime or pump anything.
I add Power Service additive to the new filter (fill it up) and screw it on. I don't know if it is filtered down to 10 microns, but it works.
I have done this several times, the most recent being the Maxima, and when I went to start it, it hiccuped once and smoothed out.

Works for you, but might not work for atalmark in this case; he may have run the IP and possibly the injectors dry. In that case, pulling fuel thru the IP (mityvac on return hose) could help, as could slightly loosening the hi-press lines at one or more injectors while cranking the engine. If the injectors have run dry, then a lot of cranking is necessary, regardless of how much you don't want to put the starter/ring gear/battery thru that stress.

I have run out of fuel a few times when I first got the car (tank gauge reads optimistic-- took me a while to learn that) and have been able to prime the IP via the filter head primer pump. Disconnected the (3/16"?) hose at the injector return gang and pumped LOTS, (maybe 2-300 times?) until fuel flowed out the hose w/o bubbles. Side of road late at night kid sleeping in back seat. Reconnected hose, cracked open a few injector fittings, and had good samaritan watch for fuel to exit at the opened fittings while cranking the engine, retightened injector feed lines and started soon after.

Atalmark you should be OK w/ the non-preferred filter in this emergency situation if it fits correctly, seeing that it is the same micron rating. My guess is that you have run the IP and/or injectors dry (suppose it could happen in one block if it was a long block up a steep hill at heavy throttle?) and will need to prime the IP and bleed the hi-press injector feed lines.

PS Try not to spill too much fuel on thick thick wire bundle running along the top of the frame rail directly underneath the fuel filter-- that will cause it to corrode more that it is and WILL leave you stranded at some future point.

[Carimbo]

Moderator, can we move this thread to the LD-series diesel engines section? Makes more sense there.

[atalamark]

Well we had a few moments today, and I hooked up the new vacuum pump to the IP return line, which was easy, and pumped the air out (it didn't take too long, there was already fuel there from the beginning but alot of air too....)

So the battery was really low and even with jumper cables to the Mercedes 240D it wouldn't crank much.

So i'm not sure how neccessary it is to open up some of the injector lines......I mean should I try to start the car without doing it first, and then check the injectors to see if they're getting fuel?

Well I'm off to the local shop to have the battery charged....in a few hours we'll hook it back up and see what happens........

mark kaylor

[atalamark]

Carimbo, what do you mean by hi-press injector feed lines?

Looking at my engine I see 6 lines going to the injectors, and then one line running horizontally that connects to all 6.

The seperate injector feeds have to big nuts, one closer to the injector and another larger nut that I can turn......is this the what you are referring to?

mark

[atalamark]

Well I just got the fully charged battery back from the shop, they said the battery checked out and was fully charged.

Got it back in the car, cranked for a while. Nothing. Tried loosening a couple of the bigger nuts on the end of the injector lines, cranked and had a friend watch for fuel. Nothing.

The car cranked good and fast but the battery gave out kinda quick. I mean I probably got a few minutes of cranking in and now the battery cranks the engine real slow.

Geez. I mean if I had the injectors dry, how much cranking would it normally take to get the fuel going? Now I'm faced with trying to charge the battery again.

So where I'm at: the system is primed at least through the IP, based on the vacuum pump being hooked up at the return line and fuel sucked through until bubbles ceased, solid fuel.

Just get the battery charged again and keep cranking? What else could it be?

Well I'm stumped , but at least I've got my old 240D which hasn't broken down in 4 years!!

thanks for all the help so far fellas

Mark E Kaylor

[asavage]

Got it back in the car, cranked for a while. Nothing. Tried loosening a couple of the bigger nuts on the end of the injector lines, cranked and had a friend watch for fuel. Nothing.

That battery sounds suspect. A good Interstate 850 or 1000 CCA will crank an LD28 a good long while.

You may have lost the IP belt. Mine broke 500 mi. after I bought my '82 Wagon from the original owner at 86k miles. Fortunately, in my driveway.

I don't recall a mention of this in the FSM, but with some contortion you might be able to ascertain if the belt is moving while cranking (watch out!) by removing this plug:

[atalamark]

I thought about the belt, but , the sequence of events seems to point to a fuel issue. Just because the car stalled after adding BD and the car DID start once immediately after it stalled......its just my gut instincts but who knows?

So I did loosen some of the nuts that run on the line that runs parallel with the engine, the small metal line that connects all the injectors. After cranking the engine a bit there was some fuel seeping out of them. Of course I tightened them back up and cranked away but nothing.....

At this point I'd hate to buy a new battery and have the car just not start.......the wife is kinda getting down on the whole endeavor, thinking we bought a lemon. Me, I'm positive, I figure its something simple, but maybe not?

I just don't know? I'll go out and check out the belt situation.....

thanks

mark kaylor

[Carimbo]

So I did loosen some of the nuts that run on the line that runs parallel with the engine, the small metal line that connects all the injectors. After cranking the engine a bit there was some fuel seeping out of them. Of course I tightened them back up and cranked away but nothing.....

Wrong line. That one is the injector return. Go back to what you described earlier as the six lines running from the rear of the IP to each injector. Crack open a few of them by loosening the what you described earlier as the larger nut you can turn (next to the smaller one that enters the injector housing directly).

While cranking the engine you need to see a small amount of fuel seeping from around the threads. These are the high-pressure lines that the IP pumps the fuel to the injectors. I called them hi-press, the injectors pop at ~2000 PSI so be careful. If the IP is primed and no fuel seeps out from the cracked open fittings when cranking the engine, either the lines are full of air and need to be bled (this is how to do it); or as Al suggested the IP belt is broken, or the IP is faulty, unable to pump fuel.

Good luck. Don't overtighten the injection tube fittings; just enough to stop fuel seepage. FSM gives 16-18 ft-lbs. for this fitting. Best to use two wrenches when loosening/tightening these. One on the side that enters the injector housing (as a backup)(you don't want that one to move) and one on the side you want to loosen.

All: Is there an IP inlet screen on this IP?

[asavage]

(click on image for larger)


IIRC, it's 17mm (?)

While I do not think that loosening the injector lines is necessary, and you certainly don't need to loosen all of them, it won't hurt.

These injectors have a designed-in bleed rate. If you get fuel to the line level, they will self-bleed. AFAIK, any injection system that has return lines from the injectors will self-bleed, but I don't know about all diesels -- there are a lot of weird diesels out there.

[atalamark]

What are the odds of pump failure?

I mean, if I primed the pump and IF (haven't checked yet, but I will when there's light) theres a belt, and I don't get fuel from the injectors, what else could it be? and how?

huh, what a drag cars can be sometimes. Well I'm gonna use the jumper cables sometime in the next few days to get the car cranking enough to see if there is ANY fuel coming to the injectors..........

thanks

Mark E Kaylor

[asavage]

If the belt is intact, and the IP contains fuel, another thing to check is the Fuel Cut Solenoid. Check 12v to it.

Some good reading on no-start stuff in this post, including a pic of the wire to check.

More non-start stuff here.

If you have power to the Fuel Cut Solenoid, try connecting and disconnecting that connector shown with the key ON. You can hear the solenoid audibly click.

If the solenoid clicks, the IP belt turns, and you are pulling fuel with no air bubbles from the IP return line, and no fuel dribbling from an opened injector line while cranking, then the IP's malfunctioning. That is not a high probability though: they rarely fail except from dirty or bad (non-diesel) fuel.

[atalamark]

well I'm gonna check out all these things........Sunday.......I don't have time til then and it will also be nice to take a break from the car for a few days......

I'll let ya'll know how it goes!

thanks much

Mark Kaylor