Propane injection

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davehoos
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Location: Karuah Valley,NSW Australia
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#31

Post by davehoos » 12 years ago

you can use lamba with diesel/LPG

power valve?
this isnt the cold start valve.

there is systems[cheep] that used lamba and map and mixture step motor.
i havnt see these advertised of in picture of wrecks in the UK so i look at holand/italy/australia.
WCJR31 Skyline.3.0 manual.wagon
R31 SKYLINE/Passage GT/PINTARA
LPG Ford Falcon 99-06 93 Disco
Local Shire Southern Zone Mechanic.

zen
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: london uk

#32

Post by zen » 12 years ago

power valve= manual gas control valve(or stepper motor controlled)

tell me more about lamda and diesel/lpg please..no info found over here..but lpg/propane fumigation with diesels is very rare..i know of no one else here who has done it..
turbo it

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davehoos
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Location: Karuah Valley,NSW Australia
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#33

Post by davehoos » 12 years ago

by power valve you mean the maximum flow valve[tap] in the pipe.

kits sold in australia normally come from europe.im guessing that they may be designed here.these come as dealer[factory] supplied on cars like citroen van.i think CNG kits are common in europe.recently i heard of australian designed kits made in china for europe.

had several isuzu[landrover 110] 4BD1/4BD1T at work for a/c repairs with these and i think it was levarto[?] .a company in the local area was the landrover dealer has a high teck system.if you contact him and he has a basic system you need for a good price i can pick it up and post it.
http://www.gastek.com.au/

i did a search and found heeps.i found this UK company.they have australian autronic kits for petrol conversions,my mate is a dealer here if they dont have the required system i could ask him to get one manufactured if possible.
i thinking that its easier to buy the item locally from a dealer with product support.

http://www.lpg-kits.com/

http://www.mrsharkey.com/lpg.htm
i found interesting.

there was other uk 4x4 supliers of kits.i didnt see them as high teck and not all that cheep.this may be due to taxes and lience charges. recently got a quote of AU$1500 for a cheepy and AU$2800 for high teck petrol/gas but i see in the uk they use programable ignition retarders to allow the engine to run good on both fuel un heard of here as why would you run petrol.a lot of complaints with new LPG cars here is to get them complied they run both fuels all the time.
WCJR31 Skyline.3.0 manual.wagon
R31 SKYLINE/Passage GT/PINTARA
LPG Ford Falcon 99-06 93 Disco
Local Shire Southern Zone Mechanic.

davehoos
Posts: 525
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Karuah Valley,NSW Australia
Contact:

#34

Post by davehoos » 12 years ago

i just found the section on fuel station conector adaptors.
and adaptors for UK to europe,usa etc
crazy
WCJR31 Skyline.3.0 manual.wagon
R31 SKYLINE/Passage GT/PINTARA
LPG Ford Falcon 99-06 93 Disco
Local Shire Southern Zone Mechanic.

zen
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: london uk

#35

Post by zen » 12 years ago

lets try to explain fully the system i am running..will post some pics tomorrow..

its really a sytem for carbed turbo petrol(gas) cars..

it has a standard 40l lpg tank..standard valves solenoids etc..bigas turbo vaporiser.(ie balance tube/boost sense is before mixer spud,now before intercooler)the vaporiser has main and idle control..the mixer is just a spud mounted close as inlet manifold as poss,but still allowing gas/air to be mixed ok...it now has 2 solenoids controlling the flow to spud,going though 2 seperate control manual valves (power valves.).one is open all the time,the other which is set to be more open(controls gas from 1500rpm) is switched via throttle position switch...it has manual on/off switch in car..this kit supplied by tinley tech...

the only difference to standard petrol sytem is the mixer(s) are replaced with small spud mixer and the max power/gas control valve(s) are of much smaller opening dia..ie controls 1/8 inch opening rather than 1/2inch..

i have modded from suppliers spec by removing the gas cutoff when on idle..because it would then surge when coming off idle causeing knock and adding another solenoid and valve to give staged gas control..

only problem still to solve is gas comes off to slowly when taking foot off go fast peddle at speed(and high boost)ie changing gear quickly at red line, sometimes gives knock as diesel is stopped but gas still flows for a fraction...and too much sensitivity at low rpm making the ride abit jurky in traffic..(would benfit with some kind of damping of gas flow on powering up,BUT not on powering down(needs to be instant then..)

more mods to follow will be switch monitoring clutch,dropping gas instant clutch peddle is depressed..and more awkwardly a way of dropping gas the instant throttle is reduced from 3/4 0r so throttle opening..(to stop knock as mentioned above..(this would remove the need for monitoring cltuch))


there are a couple of others selling diesel kits,but they didnt have a clue when i spoke to them,so i avoided..most of the other lpg suppliers (there are a few!) all ran a mile when i asked about lpg/diesel..some said it cant be done!..none i have found sell a computerised system here..

there are however plenty of companies selling trick petrol lpg sytems..


i like the sound of the 1st one you listed, but no info given on their site of any use...ie what you get,how it works,what does it sense..etc..
turbo it

(sd33t home turbo set up if anyone is interested..)

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asavage
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#36

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

zen wrote:its really a sytem for carbed turbo petrol(gas) cars.. . . .

. . . it now has 2 solenoids controlling the flow to spud, going though 2 separate control manual valves . . . one is open all the time, the other which is set to be more open(controls gas from 1500rpm) is switched via throttle position switch . . .
a) You say you're feeding gas all the time, which is making the problem of deceleration knocking worse;

b) A throttle switch controlling the second solenoid doesn't have any relationship to "1500 RPM".
i have modded from suppliers spec by removing the gas cutoff when on idle..because it would then surge when coming off idle causeing knock and adding another solenoid and valve to give staged gas control . . .

. . . only problem still to solve is gas comes off to slowly when taking foot off go fast peddle at speed(and high boost)ie changing gear quickly at red line, sometimes gives knock as diesel is stopped but gas still flows for a fraction...and too much sensitivity at low rpm making the ride abit jurky in traffic..
c) and no gas cutoff on decel. If the supplied gas cutoff causes surging, it's because you have poor flow sensing: when the cutoff opens off idle, a spurt of PG hits the manifold, until your flow restrictor (1/8" orifice vs. 1/2" from OEM) cuts down the flow.

Sounds like you are patching patches. You do not have a LPG flow control that actually controls flow based on engine need.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

zen
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: london uk

#37

Post by zen » 12 years ago

in reply to a)

the gas that is permently supplied is controlled by vaporiser..ie no boost/no vac change no pull on gas=no gas..(atleast very little gas..)

ie on idle you cannot tell that the gas is on..no rise in speed no engine note change.tiny tiny wiff of burnt gas in exhaust..

reason i have it on permentlly is to cure the surge on aplication of gas from tick over...yes i know i should not have to...it appears my knowledge of lpg/diesel is now more than kit supplier....and i dont know much yet..but am learning real quick..

b)..ok i concur..should have put that better..1/4 of ip throttle opening..ie on power..

c) i agree...thats why have done the mods..thats why i am after better control.(computerised?)..to clear a point..the 1/8 opening in max gas control valve is oem.i am comparing it to 1/2inch for full lpg sytem in petrol/(usa gas) type sytem..really after now better control of gas flow...but nothing available over here off the shelf..it appears by asking on various uk forums i am at the cutting edge here!!!rather than miles behind compared to australia and maybe usa(though sytems i have found on us web sites are pretty crude too...)

over all propane/lpg fumigation so far is well worth following up..improvments in power, economy and emmisions are significent, though no figures yet..(emmisions next ministry test,power once clutch changed soon,then rolling road,mpg on going,but +5% so far)

re the surging on take off of throttle at high rpm..need to alter plumbing, going to reduce output pipe lenght from solenoids to manifold by moving solenoids closer..but need some e67 lpg piping to do this..next week then...this will be the cure i expect,but only untill better sytem found...i see no reason why most of the sytem i have cant be kept,just replacing the spud with cpu controlled injector???and prehaps the flow controlled vaporiser with a perment fixed flow vaporiser to feed the injector ???not sure..as i say no one in the uk can help..(they run a mile when diesel mentioned,quoting law suits for blown up engines... :shock: )
turbo it

(sd33t home turbo set up if anyone is interested..)

davehoos
Posts: 525
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: Karuah Valley,NSW Australia
Contact:

#38

Post by davehoos » 12 years ago

http://d-gas.com.au

found this,looks very basic.

asked my friend about electronic controlled unit-find out next week.
WCJR31 Skyline.3.0 manual.wagon
R31 SKYLINE/Passage GT/PINTARA
LPG Ford Falcon 99-06 93 Disco
Local Shire Southern Zone Mechanic.

zen
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: london uk

#39

Post by zen » 12 years ago

thanks...
turbo it

(sd33t home turbo set up if anyone is interested..)

zen
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: london uk

#40

Post by zen » 12 years ago

update...

mpg shot up from 19-20 around town to 28-29..(980miles of testing so far..all in town)

gas shut off/control valves moved much closer to spud...

clutch actuated switch installed in series with throttle switch,so only allows "main" solenoid to open when on power and clutch pedal released..result no more surging or transmission snatch...

still looking for computerised system....
turbo it

(sd33t home turbo set up if anyone is interested..)

zen
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: london uk

#41

Post by zen » 12 years ago

..well 1700 miles now..down to 25mpg average..all town (london..ahhh) driving,and hoofing it when able...(but still 5mpg better,and better performance and emmisions..)
turbo it

(sd33t home turbo set up if anyone is interested..)

zen
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: london uk

#42

Post by zen » 12 years ago

still going strong...
turbo it

(sd33t home turbo set up if anyone is interested..)

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