Smokin' like it’s on fire!

SD diesels were widely available in the US in the 1981-86 Datsun/Nissan 720 pickups, and in Canada through '87 in the D21 pickup.

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Snakelady27317
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Smokin' like it’s on fire!

#1

Post by Snakelady27317 »

:shock: An update and then my problem; First, we were given the 1983 Nissan Datsun SD22 Kingcab 720 pickup. The previous owner had to park it after his surgery; there it sat for 5+ years. We enter the picture with only that knowledge and the idea that this truck would make a great first vehicle for my son.

:roll: This is when the games began. We did manage to start the thing but it snorted and belched smoke so we drained the old diesel out and made a game plan. We decided to do a little work to make sure it would a safe ride for my son. No wrecking yards around had anything! I went on the web searching for parts (how I found you). We went though http://www.KitPros.com (Jim) and were able to get a rebuild kit. (What was in our kit, the price, and a note from Jim are listed below.) My hubby made a tool to remove the old piston liners and it worked like a charm. We ran into the cracked cylinder head and spend about 5 months looking for one. When we were told about http://www.car-parts.com that’s when and were we found one. Once we had the head we were back in business or at least we thought.

Now we have it all together and we still have the smoking beast from… well you get the point. (To give you a visual, I was on my way home and was about a ¼ mile away from home and thought the shop was on fire, that’s how much smoke there was.) It starts up easy and shuts down easy and runs pretty smooth, it just smokes like nobody’s business. He has adjusted timing, fuel pump timing, put cod liver oil in where it was called for, and even change around the injectors (they all fire fine). See in the pic where the gold fuel line come to the top nut of the injector, if you have your engine running and loosen one at a time you will notice that the engine will loose power. We did this test (I guess you can call it that) and cylinder 1 and 4 responded by chugging, but when we tried 2 and 3, nothing. We then swapped the injectors and tried it again and had the same results 1 and 4 chugging, 2 and 3, nothing. We have done everything in the book (and we have three books). Can anyone help I feel like we are fumbling around in the smoke. :oops:
Image
{Kit Pros.comHas prepared the following quote for you……. #KP20801.3
Key to quote P = All Sealed Power / Federal Mogul brand parts,E = Quality parts in the brands of our choosing,X = other parts included for compatibility- - - = not included in this quote, see notes below
E Rod Brgs
E Main Brgs (and thrust washers when applicable)
P Gasket Set Fel-Pro – S/P
E Ring Set 5ring style
E Piston Set 5ring style
E Liners
E Oil Pump (std. volume only)
E Expansion Plugs Brass
E Cam Brgs. (H.P. style)
E Water Pump
X Brg, Lube, Plastigage & Bolt Boots Free with kit
Kit Price $824.63

Derrick, while the liners are figured to be a “finished’ liner, you must always check the fit between piston and liner upon installation. Variations can alter the fit of the liner in the block. This kit includes a new set of pistons and matching rings. They are the 5ring style used in the forklift applications, but will work just fine in your truck. We could try for the 3ring style from the one manufacturer who lists them. Assuming they actually have them available it would add $130 more to this price. There is also a .50mm (.020”) over size piston (5ring style) available if your shop thinks they can clean up your old cylinders in that way. Let me know which way you want to go and I will change the “buy button” to reflect the appropriate kit.
If you would like to add or remove any parts, make changes to the ones already in the kit, or have any further questions, you can contact me at this email address, or at 800-666-0252 weekdays between 9a and 5p Pacific time. Please reference the above Quote # in all email or phone correspondence. We can adjust any kit to fit your needs by adding or removing items. While there are certain parts that are commonly included in kits, we do not force you to buy any item you do not need. There are no mandatory items for any kit. Before any order can be processed, we must verify sizes and any other specific questions as applicable to your kit. We can then take your order over the phone, or set up a link for ‘secure ordering’ on the web site, or negotiate the transaction through email, whichever you prefer. Quotes will remain in our system for 30 days. Most orders can be shipped within 3 business days, and remember, UPS ground freight to the continental 48 states is free on every kit order containing 7 or more components AND is over $101.00. Freight to Alaska, Hawaii, Canada or any other off continent location will be charged at the carriers published rate. Please call for additional details.
It is the purchaser’s responsibility to ensure that the selection of any performance upgrades does not adversely affect the proper operation of, or the emission controls of any vehicle. Additional parts may be needed for proper operation. KitPros is not responsible for misuse or misapplication of parts.
Thank You,
Jim
KitPros.com
SD22 Diesel and in debt
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asavage
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Re: Smoken like it’s on fire

#2

Post by asavage »

Snakelady27317 wrote: . . . a rebuild kit. My hubby made a tool to remove the old piston liners and it worked like a charm. . . . Now we have it all together and we still have the smoking beast . . . It starts up easy and shuts down easy and runs pretty smooth, it just smokes like nobody’s business. . . . [loosen injector lines] cylinder 1 and 4 responded by chugging, but when we tried 2 and 3, nothing. We then swapped the injectors and tried it again and had the same results 1 and 4 chugging, 2 and 3, nothing.
From the data you've provided, I can think of two possibilities:

a) Poor compression in cylinders 2 & 3. Explains the lack of RPM drop during injector line crack test and the smoke. Contraindicated by "smooth running".

b) Faulty injection pump. Explains injector line crack test and smoke, but again not the "smooth running".

Do you have access to a diesel compression test rig? If so, verify that you have enough compression: above 350 is mandatory, but with new pistons and liner, I'd expect above 420.

Because it smoked badly before you tore it down, I'm leaning toward the IP being bad, though I've not heard of the inline IP failing in this manner. Looking at the internals, it's possible for it to do this though. I don't like to troubleshoot by just throwing parts at a problem though, unless the parts are very cheap and/or a normal "consumable" (like an air filter or spark plug), or very easy to replace.

I'm not wild about having installed the 5-ring pistons though.

See PISTONS and 3 ring

If you need access to the diesel compression tester and custom SD2x adapter I show in the thread linked above, it's available for rent -- actually, I'll let you borrow it for free, but the deposit is rather high: I want it back!
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
pbknowles
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#3

Post by pbknowles »

Have you let it run for a good 1/2 hour or so, or driven it down the road? When I first started my engine after rebuild it smoked quite a bit too, enough that the neighbor lady came over to see if all was well. What color is the smoke? White indicates unburned fuel.......
SD22 powered '85 Chevy S-10
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philip
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Re: Smoken like it’s on fire

#4

Post by philip »

Snakelady27317 wrote: snip It starts up easy and shuts down easy and runs pretty smooth, it just smokes like nobody’s business. He has adjusted timing, fuel pump timing, put cod liver oil in where it was called for, and even change around the injectors (they all fire fine). SNIP We then swapped the injectors and tried it again and had the same results 1 and 4 chugging, 2 and 3, nothing. SNIP
With no RPM drop from #2 and #3 cylinder, the engine cannot be running smoothly. "Smooth" is determined by feeling exhaust flow out the exhaust pipe. NO CHUFFING. Both injectors could be faulty so ... try swapping #2 with #1 to see if the misfire follows the injector or not.

As Al noted, the oil matter existed prior to the piston/liner/ring overhaul and I'll assume the replacement head was checked out by a machine shop so ... that leaves a damaged injection pump (ie delivery valve failure, scored plungers, etc ... I would think).

Forget cod liver oil!
Last edited by philip 17 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
zen
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Location: london uk

#5

Post by zen »

You really need to do a compresson test...(its easier than swapping the IP over, assuming you have a spare)(if you intend to play diesels for a while then its a worth while investment...your mates will want to borrow it too...)

Then go from there...as any advice given is really shooting in the dark if good compression is not present.

One hopes they are all good...
turbo it

(sd33t home turbo set up if anyone is interested..)
EvergreenSD
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#6

Post by EvergreenSD »

You can get a diesel compression tester at Harbor Freight for $20-25. It won't work on #2 but you can probably put an adapter together at a pneumatic supply house.
'82 SD22 720 Kingcab with flatbed
zen
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#7

Post by zen »

Wow thats cheap! A decent one here in the UK is $200+.
turbo it

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asavage
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#8

Post by asavage »

zen wrote:wow thats cheap..a decent one here is$200++
A Harbor Freight sourced compression tester doesn't qualify as "decent". Mine's a Snap-On, and I didn't buy it new, I picked it up on eBay. I've owned several over the years, and this one's the best of the bunch. With the Snap-On unit, it's often sold with the adapters in a separate assortment kit, which is what I have. It can also be purchased as gauge-plus-adapters in one set. It's expensive.

In this circumstance, the accuracy of the numbers isn't paramount, it's the variation between cylinders that's being sought, and as long as you can get good repeatbility (same number over several tests), a cheap unit might work OK for this troubleshooting task.

But I never advocate buying cheap tools -- it only encourages the bastards.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
zen
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Location: london uk

#9

Post by zen »

Quite agree! Always buy the best you can...a good un(what ever it is) should out last you!! (treated with care)
turbo it

(sd33t home turbo set up if anyone is interested..)
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Snakelady27317
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#10

Post by Snakelady27317 »

More stuff to tell and ask.... First, we removed the head. #2 cylinder showed signs of burning water and #3 not as bad. The head gasket showed no signs of leak-by, although some head bolts did not seem as tight as others. All of the bolts were torqued in a 3-step method following the correct sequence. Block surface is flat; head is flat and pressure tested.
Has anyone had any problem with liner protrusion (liner height above the deck)? This could cause the problem. We measured protrusion and its between .002 and .003. Does anyone know what is the max allowed? We have removed the diaphragm cover and found a goopy mess that we need to clean and fix. We have read the ““Pneumatic Governor Diaphragm” post and a few others about cod liver oil.

:P We think this is a great site and love all the help we are getting and how nice everyone is. :)

:D Kudos to all!!! :D
SD22 Diesel and in debt
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philip
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#11

Post by philip »

Snakelady27317 wrote:More stuff to tell and ask.... SNIP Has anyone had any problem with liner protrusion (liner height above the deck)? This could cause the problem? We measured protrusion and it's between .002 and .003. Does anyone know what is the max allowed? SNIP
Cylinder sleeve information

Retorque head bolts with warm engine

Also, the head gasket has 4 sealing rings that are easily overlooked. See the above "bolt" link.
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
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Snakelady27317
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#12

Post by Snakelady27317 »

Well I have good news and I have some bad news. :) The good news is that we took the head back off and had it tested again and it was fine. We got the new diaphragm in and put the head back on and did all the good stuff and wa la purred like a kitten. :D Within 2 minutes of starting it quit smoking, smoothed out and ran great. Notice I am using past tense.... :( well I put license on it on Monday the 18th and drove it all over town getting what last little things it needed done for it to be legal in my state and safe for my son. Drove it all day Tuesday and let my son take it out for a little while Tuesday night. I drove it again Wednesday making sure we were catching any bugs that needed to be worked out (like the small problem we had with the lights and the ignition switch). We let my son take it out for the second time (by himself) and he wrecks :x :evil: the truck in a ditch. My son was not hurt :) but he beat the sh_t out of 3 sides of the truck. :cry: So this has been our Christmas season. I hope all of yours has been better. Let me hear from you :idea:


Tina :cry:
SD22 Diesel and in debt
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#13

Post by asavage »

I am so glad that your son is OK. Having been run over by a drunk driver when I was 18, I have a less common perspective on these kinds of things. Count your blessings, and don't look back :!:
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
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philip
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#14

Post by philip »

Snakelady27317 wrote:SNIP- We let my son take it out for the second time (by himself) and he wrecks :x :evil: the truck in a ditch. My son was not hurt :) but he beat the sh_t out of 3 sides of the truck. :cry: So this has been our Christmas season. I hope all of yours has been better. Let me hear from you :idea:

Tina :cry:
Oh Tina! I am truly sorry for this whole experience and ... relieved to hear the boy is unhurt and hopefully more learned.
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
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