Full flow oil Filter with internal bypass

[philip]

SNIP-I don't think that you can avoid external hoses if you want bypass filtration.

Fleetguard to the rescue!

[asavage]

Fine. Will it fit an SD? And does it work? Usually, you would need a restriction on the flow to the full-flow portion to "encourage" some oil to go through the highly-restrictive bypass media. While the Fleetguard filter may do this, they're not showing it in that cartoon.

[philip]

Fine. Will it fit an SD? And does it work? Usually, you would need a restriction on the flow to the full-flow portion to "encourage" some oil to go through the highly-restrictive bypass media. While the Fleetguard filter may do this, they're not showing it in that cartoon.

It's shown very clearly.

This integrated full flow/bypass design is good enough for Cummins.

Lf3000 Combination Lube Filter. One Lube Filter That's Better Than Two.

Bypass-Venturi Filter details

Now putting together the adaptor base required might be a small challenge.

[asavage]

It's shown very clearly.

I don't see the restriction that affects the full-flow portion without affecting the bypass section in that cartoon.

Lf3000 Combination Lube Filter. One Lube Filter That's Better Than Two.

I read it. Says nothing about the restriction necessary to make a bypass filter work. A minimum pressure differential is required to get oil through a bypass filter.

Bypass-Venturi Filter details

What a load of hooey is in that page.

"Sludge Removal Single Pass" (empahsis mine) is misleading because bypass filters do not filter all the oil that is being pumped through an engine in a single pass. Typical figure quoted is 10% of total oil flow is diverted through a bypass filter. I see no reason why Cummins' filter would do a higher volume than that.

Meaning: if you wait long enough to push a similar volume of oil through a bypass filter as goes through the full-flow, yup that chart looks correct. But that isn't real-world.

" . . . removes the smallest dirt particles-which cause the most engine damage . . . "

Who writes this stuff? Nobody could take this seriously. The smallest particles do not cause the most engine damage: the largest particles do. That's why OEMs for light-duty equipment supply only full-flow oil filters that on a good day might filter down to 25 microns: that size and larger do the most damage.

[later]

It looks like their venturi is the thing generating the pressure differential. Unlike what I think of as a conventional venturi, this one creates low pressure on its inner circumference, which is where the bypass filter's outlet is. Yeah, I suppose that works.

OK, it's shown clearly -- once you know what to look for. Did you?

Now putting together the adaptor base required might be a small challenge.

Nah, I've done that. I made what is probably one of only a-few-in-the-world full-flow spin-on oil filter adapter for my '65 190D, back in 1989. Well, I drew up the parts and our job shop did the work.

It's much easier to use a spin-on adapter and hoses to a remote base though. Easier, but not necessarily tidier. There's got to be some advantage to having the filter right-side-up though.

If we continue on this line, we should split this topic out; we've hijacked the thread.

[philip]

-SNIP- OK, it's shown clearly -- once you know what to look for. Did you?

Not on the "first pass." I did on the second pass.

If we continue on this line, we should split this topic out; we've hijacked the thread.

But of course! Maybe two!

[asavage]

I'm off to Ralph Wood's site to order an ATF cooler line adapter (w/orifice) for one of my Motorguard MG-30s, and I found this picture:



Note the fuel preheat wrap, just like Philip's!

I don't think I'd put my bypass filters there, but I'm not sure just where I would.

Interesting TP filter FAQs are here.

[philip]

-SNIP-
Note the fuel preheat wrap, just like Philip's! -SNIP-

Bzzzt. From this "coil" does no fuel heat when weather was cold and then added too much fuel heat during high days (100 degrees+).

I removed the coil when I learned better.



In your note, I DO notice a new/different adjustable Tee valve added to the injection pump you mention. LOL

[TooManyIdeas]

I just got done installing the FS2500 on my truck. Yes, you have to run more hose but so what. This filter surpasses that fleetguard filter hands down. Check it out http://filtrationsolutionsww.com/ I had to remove the stock air filter assembly and replace it with a K&N. (yes I read the rightup but I needed to utilize the space) Even with the stock assembly gone I still had to cut a hole to fit. I ran it in line between the block and the vacuum pump.

[asavage]

I just got done installing the FS2500 on my truck.

I have a few Qs:

• Who did you buy it from?
• What did you pay for it?
• How much are replacement cartridges?
• What pickup and return points are you using?

That's the easy way!

[TooManyIdeas]

I got it on ebay for $100. But if you call the number on the website you'll pay something like $300. and the replacement kits are like $25. I plumbed inline from the block to the vacum pump replacing the oil line with barb fittings. (P.S. THE FITTING ON THE VACUUM PUMP ISN'T EVEN CLOSE TO A 1/8BPT GRR) It's the one Phillip replaced.

Sorry I don't know how to repost a posted pic or link another post

[philip]

I just got done installing the FS2500 on my truck. Yes, you have to run more hose but so what. This filter surpasses that fleetguard filter hands down. ... -SNIP-

How about running a oil analysis on your trucks -before- ... "stuff"?

There are 3 different analysis I ran on the SD22, the 3rd going out to 5k miles. Each have only 15w-40 and an Napa oil fill ... that gave better oil than the Cummin and two Cats you showed your "Filtrations Solutions" sale examples.

I'll stay using WIX (the best) and Valvoline 15w-40 at 3,000 ($13 for 5qts and $4.50 for WIX filter). And, I don't need that hose and tank complication.

[asavage]

I'm going to a Motorguard MG-30 and synth oil, and not changing the oil -- ever. With regular analysis, of course.

[philip]

I'm going to a Motorguard MG-30 and synth oil, and not changing the oil -- ever. With regular analysis, of course.

So ... ?

http://www.bypassfilter.com/misinformation.htm

Misinformation

Some filter makers claim their filters can go longer between changes. This is similar to recommending 10,000 mile oil drains. They forget to tell you that your engine will last longer if you change the oil every 3,000 miles as a rule the more effective a filter is and the smaller the filter is the more often it needs to be changed. If you can accept a higher wear rate you can extend your filter change interval longer. If you are wanting a wear rate as near zero as possible with no oil drains you will need a filter that can filter to well below One micron. You will need to change it about every 2,000 for an 8, 3,000 for a 6, and 4,000 for a 4. You may need to adjust that for cold weather, short trips, etc.

If you can find a filter that can filter well under one micron about twice as large you can go twice as far between filter changes without more engine wear. I've used toilet paper filters for 40 years. I'm not paying more money for a less effective filter element. Full flow filters don't count. They remove only large engine damaging abrasives. A good engine has almost no large engine damaging abrasives. They are very close to being useless in a modern engine. ATF filters are even worse.

Channeling
Motor Guard will not "channel". Some filters "channel" due to inconsistency of material such as cotton wastes. For oil to "channel" it must have a preferential route.

The compressed roll of cellulose in Motor Guard does not permit channeling because each sheet of paper is identical. The oil must flow through the entire roll. The impression of the screen on the top of the tissue roll and the "solid" packing gives evidence that there is no channeling.

I copied this from a 1966 Motor Guard technical manual. The screen was eliminated shortly after. It stuck to the TP and got thrown away. channeling is eliminated by high quality TP and tapered housings. It is rare but it can happen with straight housings, poor quality, loose wound TP and large amounts of water.

At work I have TP filters that are used for removing water from the oil. The big stock filters are pretty much useless. Similar to a car only larger. These are air compressors. The diesel engines don't have a water problem caused by condensation.

Be suspicious of filter makers with expensive elements that don't clean oil very well criticizing filters that are economical and very effective. Cellulose is the king of oil and fuel filters. The tighter you pack it the cleaner the oil and fuel. Element is highly concentrated cellulose.

"Cellulose Breaks Down and Plugs the Oil Passages"
I don't know of any cellulose in the world that breaks down in oil. Put oil on paper and you will see it gets stronger in oil. I've used cellulose filters for 40 years, some have used them longer. A well designed cellulose filter may get a few fibers in the oil from sliding the old roll out and sliding a new roll in. I've never worried about it. If I considered it an issue I would do as some do and install a secondary filter. You can get a nipple type inline filter with a sintered bronze element 40 or 90 micron 1/8" pipe to 1/2" pipe from http://www.mcmaster.com catalog #98355k83 for 1/8" pipe for less than $3.00 or you can get a mini inline hydraulic filter less than $22.00 catalog #9800k41 for 1/4" pipe.

The Motor Guard M-30 has 1/4" ports. There is no way I would use a less effective, more expensive element to insure against paper fibers getting in the oil. If you use the Motor Guard with a Perma-Cool.Com sandwich adapter all oil leaving the Motor Guard must go thru the full flow filter to get to the engine. The special Motor Guard high wet strength element model M-723 will work in the oil filters if you remove the 175 degree F rated 1 1/2" ID polyethylene core. I sometimes use them for fuel. They are for critical use where nothing comes out but clean; electronics, medical, compressed air for instrumentation, painting, plazma etching, plazma cutters, etc. A roll of Scott Kimberly Clark will do just fine for me. I will be setting up the fuel filters to take the special M-723 Element. The leak proof core has advantages. They will also take the 1 5/8" 10 Scott Kimberly Clark.

Also... http://www.bypassfilter.com/faqs.htm

9. Can Motor Guard filters be used as a diesel fuel filter?

With slight modification of unit, many fleet operators with diesel equipment are enjoying the Protection, Economy and Convenience of Motor Guard as a fuel filter. Remove 1/16" restrictor orifice. Unit is now ready as a Diesel Fuel Filter, removing dirt, rust and water from Diesel Fuel, protecting expensive fuel injectors and allowing the engine to run more efficiently.

[asavage]

bypassfilter.com is Ralph Wood's site. That's the guy who modifies the M-100 to be an MG-30, using (formerly Delrin) SS and copper parts for the core. Motorguard sold auto lube filters for about a decade, then went to marketing to the air filtration industry only.

I spent about ten minutes on the phone with Ralph last week, he told me even more background on the Motorguard that I had known. I ordered a couple of sandwich filter adapters and an ATF cooler line adapter/orifice (goes in ATF line, provides two ports and a restriction orifice to encourage some flow through the bypass filter).

[TooManyIdeas]

I've never heard of the Motorguard MG-30. Where can I get more info. As for the oil sampling, where do I go to get that done and how much does it cost?