Rusted exhaust studs!!!

[ecomike]

OK, I give, I am guessing there must be some trick to this. I have a single top center nut that will come off, it has been rounded off so I am down to vice grips now. But even worse than that is the bottom center and bottom rear nuts. I can't even get the socket on the bottom center nut between the manifolds due to clearance problems.

I have removed all the top nuts except the top center one which has rounded off. I have also removed the front bottom nut, but have not been able to get any further. The good nuts (brass) came of fine, almost too easy with a 12 mm socket. I have tried a u-joint adapter and it wont fit between the manifolds. Looking at some pictures here it looks like I am one nut away from having the exhaust manifold out of my way. Does it have to come off to get the bottom Intake manifold bolts????

[kassim503]

Did you try carefully applying heat to the nut?

[ecomike]

Did you try carefully applying heat to the nut?

No, but I did carefully apply elbow grease, does that count?

Short of my gas stove in the kitchen (it is a bit bulky) or P*ssing of the local neighbor and harnessing that excess heat, I don't have a proper heat source. I have been using some penetrant oil that has always worked in the past. Picked up a can of PB blaster (I had run out) that I will try next. I also picked up a slim (Thin profile) nut buster that I can use if I get desperate and a set of extractor sockets for nuts with rolled edges. So I should be able to get the nut off. I just hope I don't break the stud in the process.

That still leaves the problem of getting up under the manifold and between the two manifolds to reach the other nuts. My god if I am having this much trouble with the easiest to reach top nut, what are the bottom ones going to be like?

[kassim503]

That still leaves the problem of getting up under the manifold and between the two manifolds to reach the other nuts. My god if I am having this much trouble with the easiest to reach top nut, what are the bottom ones going to be like?

The L series motor has the same bolts that are hanging under the motor, I did mine using a box end wrench and a 5lb sledge and tapped them out. (couldnt get any grip turning it sideways) But I dont have a SD series motor, nor did I have to round over anything while removing hardware.

Did you try squeezing the vice grips on tight and try giving it some blows with a hammer? The impacts might help the nut break free without snapping the stud.

[edit] Also, try the nut buster, since u did buy it, but im curious to see if it actually helps the situation or not. Oh and do you have a welder?

[rlaggren]

> does that count?

No.

> heat

A small butane torch sold at most hardware stores will get some heat on the nut fairly cheaply and controllably.

A old fashioned propane torch will do the job quicker w/less control.

If you can find a plumber or AC guy to loan you an air/acetylene (NOT oxy/acetylene) setup with a Turbo Torch brand torch, the smallest tip will heat the be-jesus out of the nut in a very controllable way; won't melt it, either. Non-Turbo-Torch brands - might as well use propane.

Heat always helps. The regular propane torch is probably the best/easiest bet. For A Few Bucks More, you can get a kit with the torch on the end of a hose (other end connects to bottle) which makes it easier to fit the torch into tight spaces.

You just happen to have picked a fight with about the worst little buggers in the automotive world. Coulda happened to anybody, if that helps. <GG>

Rufus

[ecomike]

That still leaves the problem of getting up under the manifold and between the two manifolds to reach the other nuts. My god if I am having this much trouble with the easiest to reach top nut, what are the bottom ones going to be like?

The L series motor has the same bolts that are hanging under the motor, I did mine using a box end wrench and a 5lb sledge and tapped them out. (couldnt get any grip turning it sideways) But I dont have a SD series motor, nor did I have to round over anything while removing hardware.

Did you try squeezing the vice grips on tight and try giving it some blows with a hammer? The impacts might help the nut break free without snapping the stud.

[edit] Also, try the nut buster, since u did buy it, but I'm curious to see if it actually helps the situation or not. Oh and do you have a welder?

The vise grip was plenty tight. Each time it literally chewed metal off the nut when I turned the VG, Guessing I had 100 ft-lbs torque on the vise grip. The nut is just disintegrating, it is too soft. No I do not have any welding equipment. One of the few things I lack.

I will try again in the morning, but the bottom one(s) are the ones that still have me worried.

Did I mention that I made the mistake of trying to tighten the exhaust manifold outlet to exhaust down pipe bolts/nuts on the flange? I tried one and it snapped like an 1/8" dry twig. I had been planning to pull the manifolds so I could get to the flange area for some time, so it was not totally unexpected, but it sure did not take much force to snap the bugger.

So I still have that repair to look forward too as well.

[asavage]

I don't have any good advice: all three times I've pulled an SD intake/exhaust, they came right off with no hassles.

Perhaps you're trying to remove only the exhaust manifold, without the intake? Don't think you want to try that.

[kassim503]

The vise grip was plenty tight. Each time it literally chewed metal off the nut when I turned the VG, Guessing I had 100 ft-lbs torque on the vise grip. The nut is just disintegrating, it is too soft. No I do not have any welding equipment. One of the few things I lack.

ohhh man, thats really tight. Try the propane torch as rufus said, try to get it hot, but not too hot, dont wanna transmit too much heat to the cyl head. Im surprised the stud didnt break, try the heat before continuing to wail on it.

Did I mention that I made the mistake of trying to tighten the exhaust manifold outlet to exhaust down pipe bolts/nuts on the flange? I tried one and it snapped like an 1/8" dry twig. I had been planning to pull the manifolds so I could get to the flange area for some time, so it was not totally unexpected, but it sure did not take much force to snap the bugger.

That can be drilled and re-tapped once the manifold is out, even though drilling out bolts is a very uncomfortable setting for me and a PITA nonetheless

Ouch. Sounds like a bad day, hope tommorow goes better than today.

[ecomike]

I had a little better luck today. I sprayed LPS 1 pen lube and BP blaster and a third pen lube (I forget the name of it) on it two times each waited 2 hours...then shortly after dark when I could no longer see that I could not see what I was trying to remove (LOL), I managed to get the 2 nuts on the bottom center of the intake manifold loose and off, and it looks and feels like I have the intake manifold free and ready to pull right off. I still had some stuff to remove on the top of the intake manifold so I left it for later. Once it is off, I should be able to get to the last rear bottom bolt a little easier, and I will tackle that last top bolt on the exhaust then too.

So I am down to one troublesome top exhaust nut, which by the way seems to be the only one missing the 1/4" thick curved washers!!! Hmm?

Is it missing, or just not used on that spot? Speaking of the top center nut on the exhaust manifold and it does not hold the intake manifold at all. I think it is missing and that may be part of the problem. Once I got a grip on the bottom two nuts they came off easy enough, its just like feeling around in the dark, or being blind getting to them and getting a tool on them. I got the bottom two off with an open end 12 mm wrench.

[asavage]

So I am down to one troublesome top exhaust nut, which by the way seems to be the only one missing the 1/4" thick curved washers!!! Hmm?

Is it missing, or just not used on that spot? Speaking of the top center nut on the exhaust manifold and it does not hold the intake manifold at all. I think it is missing and that may be part of the problem.

It's hard to say, looking at the parts picture:

(click on image for larger)

[ecomike]

Well I was wrong, intake won't come off by itself. I finally got that pesky center top nut off with vise grips. Even the small profile nut buster I bought was too bulky to reach the nut as the exhaust manifold was in the way. I also could not get a socket on the nut, and I had finally bought a special socket set for rounded off nuts, but never got to try them. I think they are called extractor sockets!

Down to one final rear bottom nut...

Is that 1/4" thick curved washer a standard part for any of the auto parts stores or hardware guys? If not where can I buy one?

[kassim503]

Congrats on breaking the nut loose!

No clue where you can get the fat washers though, I have a few washers stacked and welded to replicate it on one bolt in my car.

[asavage]

It's a kind of half-ass Belleville washer, and I've only seen them elsewhere on old straight-Six manifolds. I have never seen them at a parts store.

My hardware store caries GR8 flat washers. For a substitute, I'd stack maybe three of those up under your new nut. They won't stay GR8 for long at exhaust manifold temps, but will set in a nice, stiff stack anyway. And I'd put a split lockwasher in there too.

[ecomike]

Well I may have won 6 nut battles only to lose the nut war. Can't seem to get the last nut to turn. I finally found a way to get a socket on the lower rear bolt on mine. I might mention here that my SD22 is shoved in a Jeep, so the proximity to the firewall and wiring harnesses, etc., on mine that are in the way makes it a real tight spot to get into on mine. On top of that the there is no room in there for a regular 3/8" drive socket as the extension hits one of the manifold tubes keeping the socket from lining up on the nut, and no room in my case to get at it with an open end wrench, unless I pull the motor, which ain't happening.

I finally found a 1/4 drive 12 mm socket that would fit on it, but the first attempt resulted in a snapped, busted, 1/4 universal joint. First time I ever broke one. Then I retried it with a step up to 3/8" (1/4" x 3/8" adapter) after a 6" long 1/4" extension, and then a 3/8 U-joint. Nearly broke the 3/8" u-joint that time and still no joy.

I am surprised the stud did not brake. I have sprayed that nut as best I could about 6 times in 2 days now. It is hard to reach. There is no room and way too much wiring in the area to try flame based heat on it. I might try a hair dryer. I am also thinking of pulling an electric impact wrench out that I bought last year, new still in the box, thinking of letting it hammer away at the socket gently (low setting), for as long as takes to knock it loose.

I have only had this trouble once before with a wheel nut that Wally World guys over torqued when I bought new tires. I used a 6 foot long 2" steel pipe as a cheater pipe/bar on a 1" thick solid forged steel tire tool. Bent the damn tire tool and still could get the nut off.

As I recall I put the other nuts back on just a little loose, and then drove it back forth a few times in the driveway to put some stress on the one stubborn nut, after that and after soaking it for a day in pen lube it finally came off. I was amazed that the stud did not brake.

Well, wish me lots of luck, looks like I might need it.

Oh, and I tried 2 local national chain auto parts stores today and no luck on the 1/4" thick curved spring washers for the manifold nuts.

[ecomike]

It's a kind of half-ass Belleville washer, and I've only seen them elsewhere on old straight-Six manifolds. I have never seen them at a parts store.

My hardware store caries GR8 flat washers. For a substitute, I'd stack maybe three of those up under your new nut. They won't stay GR8 for long at exhaust manifold temps, but will set in a nice, stiff stack anyway. And I'd put a split lock washer in there too.

I suspect they are there to tighten up, and expand, as the manifold bolts and washers heat up and try to loosen, they are sort of spring washer. I found some thin ones today in the motormite (sp?) HELP section in an exhaust bolt hardware kit, so those guys might ha