Starter Problem?

[Dr. Jones]

Hi Guys

When this started I was low on fuel actually stalled from what I believe to be fuel starvation, I got to the fuel station added a few gallons and started getting getting injection timing symptoms, such as gas pedal to floor to hold an idle.

After reading some posts here and remembering an injector/injection flush treatment where I made a small gas tank from a juice bottle. I assumed air in the pump. After removing the air, I went to start the car and didn't even get a solenoid click, finally after some jiggling I finally got a click but nothing else. So I pulled the starter and bench tested it and found that I couldn't get the motor to spin. So I took it the parts store where he confirmed that it was dead and order me a new one, that will come in roughly a week. So after talking with the gas station owner where I left the car they begrudgingly said that they wouldn't tow it, so having not even gotten the car started yet I wanted to make sure that there was nothing else wrong with it, so come Thursday afternoon I could install the new starter and drive away. So I pulled the starter out of my other dot max and placed it in the problematic maxima I got it to turn over a few times, actually it turned over a good bit probably 2 minutes of start by way of 15 sec rest and 30 sec start cycles. Then the starter just went to clicking with no signs of a discharged battery, such as dragging, etc.. So I pulled it out and bench tested it, just like above the only thing I had with me to bench test it was jumper cables, I hooked the positive battery terminal to the positive battery terminal post on the solenoid and from the negative terminal to the starter body and got nothing. So I put it back in the other car figuring to use it as a place to anchor the positive battery cable until it got a new starter and assumed I would push start it to get home. Seeing how I would have to push/pull the car up hill to get the required speed, I figured what the hell and tried the ignition and it started.

I think I have a bad connection in the problematic car, is the starter motor grounded by means of mounting or is there a another ground?

What is the little clip/plug connector on the solenoid for?

Is there any other way to burn out a starter other than over starting?

In using long car battery jumper cables am I losing to much current or gaining to much resistance to get a reliable bench test of the starter?

Does anyone have a good line on a high quality starter, I have a World ASS reman from Advanced (there only listing) I paid $196, but they have a lifetime warranty with full replacement for 3 years?

Does anyone know if Glenllyod and Al have went into mass production of the copper glo-plug bus bars?

Thanks

Joe

[LD28 Owner]

The starter ground is through the mounting bolts -- there is no ground wire.

The spade connector on the starter solenoid receives the wire from the ignition switch and is the lead to energize the solenoid.

I suspect you did not burn out your starter motor, I suspect the solenoid on the first starter died.

I suspect that you were on the right track with adding fuel and then bleeding the air from the system. Then you were foiled by a bad solenoid (no click).

Did you, when bench testing the first starter, try to spin the motor by going around the solenoid (black jumper to starter frame and red jumper to the large solenoid terminal closest to the starter motor)? If that test had spun the starter, it would suggest a solenoid, not starter motor problem (A clicking solenoid isn't necessarily a good solenoid -- the internal contacts may be so burned that no juice actually gets to the starter).

Did you, when bench testing the second starter and after attaching the red jumper to the top of the solenoid and the black jumper to the starter frame, jump a second wire, screwdriver, etc. from the red jumper to the little clip/plug? If not, you never energized the solenoid and thus never really tested the starter.

I suspect, when you installed the second starter in the car, you properly connected the ignition switch wire to the little spade connector and thus fully tested the second starter and now everything is fine.

Jim

[Dr. Jones]

Thanks Jim.

I believe, if I correctly understand the first procedure you outlined, I tested the starters correctly. I was really testing the starters to see if the starter motors were bad, is jumping the battery to starter solenoid terminal used to test the solenoid and starter simultaneously?

I was rebuilding my starters until I lost my commutator due in what I believe to be arcing across insulators and cracking the brushes, so I do have a Rexall solenoid laying around. You think I should pull the solenoid they give me off and place that one one there? I kinda feel that these remaned starters aren't really up to snuff, does anyone know if one can get a new commutator for a reasonable price?

My bolts are covered in oil/sludge I think I am going to start with establishing a good ground unless, somebody comes up with something I could be overlooking.

[rlaggren]

You still got the "dead" one? Or can you get it back quick from the parts store?

Assuming some kind of "normal" usage of the vehicle recently and the starter was working OK, .... Then why would the starter mechanicals quit just because you ran out of fuel? Or were you cranking til the cows came home trying to get fuel back into it? Then maybe you toasted it, but it should probably stink pretty good if you did that (though 65% duty cycle - 30 on, 15 off - you described w/the second starter is pretty intensive as I understand it).

Still, seems more likely it could be the solenoid like Jim suggested. Be nice to check that first - easier and all that.

Cheers, Rufus

[asavage]

The Hitachi solenoids go bad. To test the starter motor, independent of the solenoid, apply your power (booster cable) to the lug on the solenoid that has the heavy short wire that disappears into the starter motor. It's the other 12mm nut, not the one where the battery cable normally connects.

Hitachi starter solenoid replacement

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Steve sold his Maxima and we haven't heard from him since. I assume that he might make you a GP bus if you emailed him. I don't fabricate them.

I have one spare bus here I think, his "Rev 1" version. If I can find it, I'd sell it for $20 + shipping. The "Rev 1" requires very slight tweaking (bending) to clear something on the head, but it's not a big deal to do.

For those of you who don't know what we're talking about, read this post, which has pics of the rot of the OEM GP bus bar.