LD28 in a Dodge?

[davehoos]

auto are rare in oz at this time.so i havnt seen one.

chrysler 727 auto used on lots of things.local shop made them up for concrete agitators.using hemi 6 units[now in jeeps].the 2.6 astrons in the usa had these in the cars and small p/u.there is a diesel version but i dont think its would get as big as 4 liter.starter on the top left.
i thought the 4 liter mitubishi truck engine would be a big block 4 cyl..

mitubishi tend to modify the back of the engine to suit the trans.
isuzu do the same having a transmission adaptor at the rear.one block many aplications.

[glenlloyd]

I've looked online for the 4.0 L Mitsu diesel from this vintage and all I can seem to find is a "maybe" engine code of 6DS...but that's not for sure. I was hoping that someone had maybe spotted a pic of one somewhere but so far no go.

steve a

[davehoos]

i did a serch and found this statement.
http://forums.vmag.com/pm-0699/messages/2168.html
" 1978-79 Dodge offered a 243 cu in Mitsubishi diesel engine."

it goes on to say that the do exsist they are in the tuneup books,and owner add on latter that its a good deal.

the number in front of mitu and issuzu is number of cyl.
4 cyl of that age tend to be just under 4 liter.i guess that its a small 6 cyl.
4L/6 X4=2.6 liter.this sujest its a 6 cyl version of the astron diesel.OHC like a LD engine.i like a photo if you find one.

[fud2468]

My Motor Light Truck and Van Repair manual '79-'85 shows no pic but has this
D-243-6
3.62 X3.94
C.R 20
100hp @3700
163 ft.lb @2200
Governed speed 3700
Ray Mac

[glenlloyd]

My Motor Light Truck and Van Repair manual '79-'85 shows no pic but has this
D-243-6
3.62 X3.94
C.R 20
100hp @3700
163 ft.lb @2200
Governed speed 3700
Ray Mac

I read a post by someone who owned one that suggested the engine wasn't a rocket by any means.

steve a

[fud2468]

I didn't check dates before posting. This thread started a long time ago, however it didn't look like anyone had found out much about it, so I put in what I found.
When get a chance I'll try to dig through old mags that I have, I might just find a picture.

[TheDieseliminator]

I read a post by someone who owned one that suggested the engine wasn't a rocket by any means.

Being a pretty big 6 cylinder diesel without a turbocharger won't get you too much for power to begin with. Given the engine was of an older design and coming out in the late 70's tells you it won't be a powerhouse like a Cummins 6BT, but it's certainly acceptable for me considering what it makes without a turbocharger. Like I said earlier in this thread I do have an ad that shows a test drive of the brand new Dodge pickup with this Mitsubishi diesel engine. The only thing is I don't have a scanner to get it accessible for viewing here on the forum. It does give you a picture of the engine in the ad, but it's pretty small and I'd have to enlarge the ad pages about twice the size for you to be able to see the engine shot better.

Salvy

[glenlloyd]

Well when you get around to it sometime it would be nice to see it. I'll take a look through some of my 1978 Motor Trend magazines and see if they didn't advertise it in there too.

steve a

[glenlloyd]

Found some additional information on the Mitsu 4.0 engine. This was posted on a Scout forum when I searched on "Mitsubishi 6DR50A" which was the 4.0 diesel motor number.

The original chatter about this can be found if anyone is interested.

http://www.binderbulletin.org/forums/sh ... hp?t=18189

In the '70's, Chrysler Marine had distribution rights to Nissan Diesel products...as well as Mitsubishi.

In 1976, following the a couple of oil embargos, fuel mileage became important and the IH built 400 Scout Diesels...then a few thousand more when they sold real well.

Chrysler Marine had a fairly good distribution network in '76; Misubishi wasn't quite there yet, so the SD-33 went in the Scout, sourced from Chrysler Marine, using the "Chrysler/Nissan SD-33".

I've always though it was really interesting that the '80 Scout Turbo Diesel had a "Nissan" (not "Chryser-Nissan") engine, and the first Dodge (Chrysler) used a "Mitsubishi" engine, not a "Nissan-Diesel" engine.

I personally think that the SD-33NA was contractually one engine, and the SD-33Turbo was another, which let IH out of their contract to buy 'em off Chrysler-Marine and go directly to Nissan-Diesel, eliminating the middleman(Chrysler-Marine).

The SD-33T was a pretty comprehensive redesign, and hadda take a couple of years to do, which means Nissan-Diesel had it in the works in '77-'78. Both Mitsubishi and Dodge had to know that Nissan-Diesel were a-fixin' to renegotiate their contract with Chrysler-Marine and if Mitsubishi did a really good deal with Dodge of their upcoming Dodge Pickup...

Of course, just about then Chrysler was attempting to sell us the award-winning Plymouth ( "Cricket") (A Mistsu--anybody remember that POS?).

Eddie

steve a

[asavage]

I saw this 1978 Dodge D200 3/4T at the Portland Auto Swap Meet this April. This is the only factory diesel Dodge PU of this vintage that I've seen.

(click on any image for larger)


(photos credit: Marc Lerner)

The right side of the bed had some damage, but overall it looked pretty darned good. Low miles, and the seller said it was basically a two-owner rig. If I'd had $2500 in my pocket . . . but then, I say that every year I go to that swap meet.

Note the extra insulation on the firewall and hood, the dual oil filters, the single battery, the hydroboost power brakes.

I didn't take any pics of the interiour, but its a Club Cab and has the butterscotch plaid interiour It was in good condition.

The engine sticker says:

6DR50A (6DR5 family)
100 HP
4000 RPM max unloaded
3700 RPM max loaded
550-600 RPM idle speed

The Seller has the original window sticker. I do not seem to have taken a picture, but it does clearly indicate the A727 transmission option, IIRC.

[glenlloyd]

Al
Thanks for the pics / info. It hardly seems possible that a NA diesel of that HP range could reasonably pull a truck of that size.

I have yet to see one in person.

Steve A

[asavage]

I've acquired a few items of interest WRT the 1978-79 Dodge and the Mitsubishi 6DR5 diesel six, and I'm going to post the stuff here, as time allows.

(click on any image for larger)

Here's an actual press photo from Sep1977. I have this photo, and it's on photo paper, not on regular card stock.

DIESEL POWER - An optional engine for the W150 Power Wagon for 1978 will be the six cylinder diesel engine from Mitsubishi Motors Corporation. The diesel option is offered on D150, W150, D200, and W200 models. Production of the diesel is slated for this Fall.

From: Truck and RV Public Relations, P. O. Box 1919, Detroit, MI 48288 For Release: On or after 6 a.m. Thursday, September 8, 1977 (78-2743)

[asavage]

From Motor Trend magazine, June 1978 pages 107-109
The Dodge 4x4 Diesel
By Bob Kovacik
Photography by Bob D'Olivo
PPC Photographic
And Chuck Nerpel

All the press on General Motors' 350 V-8 diesel tends somewhat to shade the fact that Dodge has also introduced a diesel in their light truck line for '78. It's a bit more versatile than the GM engine and somewhat larger than the one used by International.

Offered in the D150, D200, W150 and W200 series pickups, the Mitsubishi-made 6-cylinder is available in both 2- and 4-wheel-drive trucks. (Though Chrysler Corporation does have the rights to the Nissan diesel now used in International's light truck line, the company chose the Mitsubishi because it was "a more proven truck engine.")

Our test vehicle was the 115-inch-wheelbase W150 Power Wagon — Power Wagon is the designation Dodge uses for its 4WD vehicles. And if there ever was a place where a diesel improves performance, it's off-road. (The truck was not fast on the highway, but quite adequate.)

"This thing will never climb that hill," said one MT staff member. "Get some-thing with more power, like one of those V-8s." He pointed to a group of 4x4s we had on a trip to California's Alamo Mountain.

It's a popular misconception that a big V-8 is better than a medium-size 6-cylinder — especially if it's a slow-moving diesel. The truth is that a diesel maintains tremendous low-speed torque and can pull a steep hill where most other engines cannot. And it'll do it with no wheelspin.

The Dodge 243.3 cid diesel gets its maximum torque of 168 lb.-ft. at only 2200 rpm, which means that with a low-low gear it doesn't take much throttle to keep it moving. Maximum net horsepower is 103 at 3700 rpm.

Dodge expects to sell only about 4000 of these powerplants in the 1978 model year. Like other light truck manufacturers, it's a move to get better fuel economy and eliminate the need for external emissions devices. Though Chrysler Corporation claims this is not an interim engine, the diesel is not offered in California for this model year. With the huge California truck market, it's surprising they're bypassing this state.

Fuel economy average over an entire truck line will become a federal mandate in 1979, with more stringent regulations coming in 1981 or 1982. For this reason — plus emissions benefits — all truck manufacturers are turning to the diesel as an immediate help in boosting fuel average.

The diesel, as we've mentioned in previous stories, has its drawbacks — mainly its high noise level and slow acceleration. But when fuel is running 60 to 70 cents a gallon, a lot of people prefer a vehicle that gets better than 10-12 miles per gallon. And, despite its size, large 10.15 LT tires and 4WD, the Dodge diesel managed 19.1 mpg over highway, city and off-road driving. With a fuel capacity of 18 gallons, it should give close to a 350-mile range per tankful.

Our test vehicle was quite a handful to drive on city streets and in many off-road situations. The main reason was the wide-spaced, 4-speed manual transmission. First gear was strictly a stump-puller, with a top-speed of close to 5 mph. The remaining gear ratios were widely spaced so that the engine dropped to almost an idle when switching to the next gear up, while downshifting created a reverse problem — you'd catch the lower gear near peak rpm, which made it almost useless. Combined with a heavy-duty, 10-inch clutch, it was very trucklike to operate, and required noticeable effort. A 3-speed automatic is available with the diesel, and in our opinion would make the truck much easier to drive. For slow, off-road operation, though, the manual would be better, because it has the creeper gear for better uphill and downhill performance.

Dodge uses the New Process transfer case. This means full-time 4WD. Unlike the part-time Dana, it's easier to move the transfer-case lever between positions.

Interior had optional bucket seats and AM/FM/CB/stereo. Long gearshift lever also has long throw. In fact, lever touches center console when using reverse. Three extra steps are required to start the diesel engine: 1) the glow plug button must be held in until a dash light goes off; 2) for cold starting, this lever actuates a restrictor valve in the exhaust manifold; and 3) fast idle knob is mechanically connected with accelerator pedal.

[Al's note: According the the 1978 Dodge Truck Supplement (to the FSM), the exhaust restrictor valve is called a Heat Boost Valve and has nothing to do with starting. "The heat booster valve is designed to provide satisfactory defroster and heater performance at speeds below 30 mpg when ambient temperatures are below +10F.

[asavage]

From Motor Trend magazine, June 1978 pages 107-109
Apparently, MT was not a glossy mag back then.

The Dodge 4x4 Diesel
By Bob Kovacik
Photography by Bob D'Olivo
PPC Photographic
And Chuck Nerpel

All the press on General Motors' 350 V-8 diesel tends somewhat to shade the fact that Dodge has also introduced a diesel in their light truck line for '78. It's a bit more versatile than the GM engine and somewhat larger than the one used by International.

Offered in the D150, D200, W150 and W200 series pickups, the Mitsubishi-made 6-cylinder is available in both 2- and 4-wheel-drive trucks. (Though Chrysler Corporation does have the rights to the Nissan diesel now used in International's light truck line, the company chose the Mitsubishi because it was "a more proven truck engine.")

Our test vehicle was the 115-inch-wheelbase W150 Power Wagon — Power Wagon is the designation Dodge uses for its 4WD vehicles. And if there ever was a place where a diesel improves performance, it's off-road. (The truck was not fast on the highway, but quite adequate.)

"This thing will never climb that hill," said one MT staff member. "Get some-thing with more power, like one of those V-8s." He pointed to a group of 4x4s we had on a trip to California's Alamo Mountain.

It's a popular misconception that a big V-8 is better than a medium-size 6-cylinder — especially if it's a slow-moving diesel. The truth is that a diesel maintains tremendous low-speed torque and can pull a steep hill where most other engines cannot. And it'll do it with no wheelspin.

The Dodge 243.3 cid diesel gets its maximum torque of 168 lb.-ft. at only 2200 rpm, which means that with a low-low gear it doesn't take much throttle to keep it moving. Maximum net horsepower is 103 at 3700 rpm.

Dodge expects to sell only about 4000 of these powerplants in the 1978 model year. Like other light truck manufacturers, it's a move to get better fuel economy and eliminate the need for external emissions devices. Though Chrysler Corporation claims this is not an interim engine, the diesel is not offered in California for this model year. With the huge California truck market, it's surprising they're bypassing this state.

Fuel economy average over an entire truck line will become a federal mandate in 1979, with more stringent regulations coming in 1981 or 1982. For this reason — plus emissions benefits — all truck manufacturers are turning to the diesel as an immediate help in boosting fuel average.

The diesel, as we've mentioned in previous stories, has its drawbacks — mainly its high noise level and slow acceleration. But when fuel is running 60 to 70 cents a gallon, a lot of people prefer a vehicle that gets better than 10-12 miles per gallon. And, despite its size, large 10.15 LT tires and 4WD, the Dodge diesel managed 19.1 mpg over highway, city and off-road driving. With a fuel capacity of 18 gallons, it should give close to a 350-mile range per tankful.

Our test vehicle was quite a handful to drive on city streets and in many off-road situations. The main reason was the wide-spaced, 4-speed manual transmission. First gear was strictly a stump-puller, with a top-speed of close to 5 mph. The remaining gear ratios were widely spaced so that the engine dropped to almost an idle when switching to the next gear up, while downshifting created a reverse problem — you'd catch the lower gear near peak rpm, which made it almost useless. Combined with a heavy-duty, 10-inch clutch, it was very trucklike to operate, and required noticeable effort. A 3-speed automatic is available with the diesel, and in our opinion would make the truck much easier to drive. For slow, off-road operation, though, the manual would be better, because it has the creeper gear for better uphill and downhill performance.

Dodge uses the New Process transfer case. This means full-time 4WD. Unlike the part-time Dana, it's easier to move the transfer-case lever between positions.

The 6-cylinder Mitsubishi diesel is a proven light truck engine. Note the dual batteries, standard with all diesels, which require a lot of cranking to turn over.

Interior had optional bucket seats and AM/FM/CB/stereo. Long gearshift lever also has long throw. In fact, lever touches center console when using reverse. Three extra steps are required to start the diesel engine: 1) the glow plug button must be held in until a dash light goes off; 2) for cold starting, this lever actuates a restrictor valve in the exhaust manifold; and 3) fast idle knob is mechanically connected with accelerator pedal.

[Al's comment: According the the 1978 Dodge Truck Supplement (to the FSM), the exhaust restrictor valve is called a Heat Boost Valve and has nothing to do with starting. "The heat booster valve is designed to provide satisfactory defroster and heater performance at speeds below 30 mph when ambient temperatures are below +10°F . . . the heat booster valve should not be used when ambient temperatures exceed +20°F or if vehicle speeds exceed 30 mph. This could damage the engine."

It goes on to say that you set the Heat Booster Valve to restricted before starting the engine (yes) but it's not to aid in starting, and it's not for use above +20°F or above 30 mph. ]

However, since full-time 4WD doesn't have free-wheeling at the front, there is a slight drop in fuel economy on the high-way.

The Mitsubishi is a noisy critter — no getting around it. At highway speeds it's not too objectionable. But, unless you're attuned to the sound, you often get the feeling that the engine is running rough.

As mentioned earlier, acceleration is poor. In fact, this Dodge was the slowest performer of the light truck diesels we've driven. It ran 0-60 mph in 27.0 seconds. Much of that, though, was due to the wide-spaced gear ratios. Better transmission ratios or an automatic should improve that figure considerably.

Starting the engine was a bit cumbersome. There are three separate operations, besides turning the ignition key. Once the key is switched on, it's necessary to push a red button to ignite the glow plug — a light on the dash tells you when to release the button. Next to it is a heat valve lever, which is pulled out in much the same way as the hood release. The heat valve restricts exhaust flow during extremely cold starts. The third procedure is to adjust a screw throttle for fast idle. The throttle is linked mechanically to the accelerator pedal.

You can get a variety of Gross Vehicle Weights (GVW) with the diesel package, ranging from 6100 to 8500 pounds. Standard equipment with the $1600 option diesel are power steering, front and rear power disc brakes operated off the Bendix power steering pump, a 63-amp alternator and dual batteries.

Though the base price of the Dodge W150 is $5436, our test vehicle figured out at $9620. It was pretty well loaded with options — Dodge has quite a few. But there was one we felt quite unnecessary — the AM/FM/CB stereo combination. I've used these in-dash combo CB units in every vehicle except Ford and have never gotten out more than two miles. This may not be the fault of the CB itself, but rather the antenna. However, when I see a price difference of a little better than $315 for AM/FM stereo without CB, I'd be tempted to go for an aftermarket transceiver.

I don't mind saying I was quite disappointed the first time I got behind the wheel of the diesel Power Wagon. But once I learned its finicky habits, there were a lot of nice things about it — especially fuel economy and off-road hill-climbing ability.

[asavage]

1978 Dodge Power Wagon brochure
8/77 Form No. 81-305-8006 (250M)

(click on any image for larger)
First, the pertinent diesel goodies, extracted.

The heart of Power Wagon performance: durable Dodge engines.

STANDARD 225-CUBIC-INCH SUPER SLANT SIX.
Dodge's proven power plant has two-barrel carburetion that contributes to responsive driveability. OR FOR EXTRA POWER, select the optional 318-cubic-inch V8 with durable components such as I-beam steel connecting rods, aluminum bearings, and Steel Strut pistons. Optional 360-, 400*-, and 440-cubic-inch V8 power plants are available.

NEW OPTIONAL 243-CUBIC-INCH DIESEL SIX.*
Designed to give an extra measure of savings on fuel and maintenance, with 20:1 compression ratio, special starting and shutdown controls, and two 70-amp-hr batteries. Available with four-speed manual or automatic transmission. If you plan to run your Dodge pickup long and hard in rugged work or recreational service, this could be your answer to lowest costs. (See your Dodge Dealer for availability.)

*Not available in California.

Thumbnails of the entire 8-page brochure:
(click on any image for larger)