Running commercial B20 biodiesel

[philip]

I've done this before, the last tankful of B20 being 6 months ago. The nearest supplier is too far away to make regular use of the stuff feasible so ... I've used it only when I happen to be in the Los Angeles area and really need fuel. The B20 blend sold by this particular truck stop is ASTM certified soy/D2.

I bought 11.3 gallons. Wasn't long at all before the familar B20 aroma came wafting around to the drivers window while waiting at traffic lights. It's something akin to dry jet aircraft exhaust.

This morning was the first cold start. Over night temps 40degrees. The engine started right up but misfired quite a bit during the first minute ... much more so when I raised RPMs. Solution is to keep the idle speed down until there's sufficient heat to support more load / RPM. Misfires don't produce heat.

Combustion crackling is quieter to the ear but there is more of it. Noticeably more combustion knocking heading down the street in 2-3 gears. Combustion crackling didn't cease until the temperature meter passed into the operating range. On D2, combustion noise stops about midway between Cold and the beginning of the operating range.

Am watching my transparent primary filter for new debris.

[philip]

Cold start this morning was pretty rough. The engine took a little coaxing to light off AND stay running for the first 2 minutes! This is atypical. Last night temperature touched 43*F.

Combustion crackle/knock is just a prominent as the days before and did not abate completely until the temperature meter was within the operating range.

The engine has also picked up a faint but discernable surging at freeway speed cruising.

So after the biodiesel seminar today (Extreme Biodiesel), I retarded the injection timing 4 degrees. We'll see how that does tomorrow morning.

[scottyk]

This is the whole reason I bought my truck. As soon as I get it going I will be running it on B100.

[philip]

This is the whole reason I bought my truck. As soon as I get it going I will be running it on B100.

Question: Were diesel #2 selling for $2.80 per gallon, how high a price would you pay for commercial ASTM-D 6751 B99?

[asavage]

$4-5/gal.

As you've said before, Philip, the benefits of biodiesel are not economic, at least not in the short-term, not the way the US transportation economy is structured (subsidized, is what I mean).

It's cleaner burning (leaving NOx aside for now). It's non-toxic if you spill it, unlike PD. It's harder to light (less flammable) at ambient temp/pressure. It's sulfur-free (no acid rain). It can be run in many diesels without modification, and it transports in our current distribution system without modification (try that with the "hydrogen economy"). It's carbon-neutral (yes, it is). It's better for the diesel injection system, and might be better on the hard parts as well.

But the primary reason I will pay more and continue to pay more for biodiesel is that -- for my personal transportation needs -- I don't have to be part of sujugating non-US citizens because I want their resources cheap. If you think that's delving into politics, sorry, but that's the way I feel: it's what I believe.

I won't say that cost is no object, but paying two bucks more per gallon for biodiesel is not out of the question for me. If I could afford an electric car and residential recharging infrastructure, for my 35 mile per day commute, I'd use an electric car. Biodiesel is my fallback situation.

[scottyk]

I agree with what Al said. I would pay probably $4-5 a gallon as well. It's funny watching the price of fuel go up, people bitch and moan about it, then when we talk about foreign oil, everyone says "We should stop buying oil from the Middle East." Can't have it both ways. I would pay a premium for a cleaner product like Biodiesel, and not feel guilty about driving more because I am running a cleaner fuel.

[philip]

SNIP- I would pay probably $4-5 a gallon as well. -SNIP- and not feel guilty about driving ...

Feelings ... beliefs ... politics ... on this subject, I hope these do not become the dogmatic religion I've witnessed on biofuel websites.

You're in Ohio ... close to heavily subsized corn farming and E85 production. Is there also soy bean farming and a biodiesel presence in and around Ohio? Would you put a biodiesel sticker on your bumper ... showing those Pompus Prius Owners® the way?

By the way, have you read about the riots in Mexico over the spiraling price of corn tortillas? We're buying up their corn for ... motor fuel production which drives up the price of corn in their markets. "Food for Fuel" it's been nicknamed.

"We" have these things popping up here and there. This one is at a new ARCO station.

Website URL on this refueling station (click the Fueling Stations tab)

[83_maxima]

$4-5/gal.

As you've said before, Philip, the benefits of biodiesel are not economic, at least not in the short-term, not the way the US transportation economy is structured (subsidized, is what I mean).

It's cleaner burning (leaving NOx aside for now). It's non-toxic if you spill it, unlike PD. It's harder to light (less flammable) at ambient temp/pressure. It's sulfur-free (no acid rain). It can be run in many diesels without modification, and it transports in our current distribution system without modification (try that with the "hydrogen economy"). It's carbon-neutral (yes, it is). It's better for the diesel injection system, and might be better on the hard parts as well.

But the primary reason I will pay more and continue to pay more for biodiesel is that -- for my personal transportation needs -- I don't have to be part of sujugating non-US citizens because I want their resources cheap. If you think that's delving into politics, sorry, but that's the way I feel: it's what I believe.

I won't say that cost is no object, but paying two bucks more per gallon for biodiesel is not out of the question for me. If I could afford an electric car and residential recharging infrastructure, for my 35 mile per day commute, I'd use an electric car. Biodiesel is my fallback situation.

Are you using B100 now that you are daily-driving your Maxi Al?

[asavage]

Are you using B100 now that you are daily-driving your Maxi Al?

Yes. Well, no.

The last time I bought fuel for it was almost exactly a year ago. At that time, it had sat for a year before that with B50 in it. I decided at 8pm one night to drive it to a Datsun Meet 100 miles away in the morning. I got up very early, found that I'd forgotten that I had new license plates in the back that had to be replaced, so at Sunday morning 5am I changed the rear plate (never did change the front, can't get the bolts off, and they're the same plate number), then fired it up -- started right up.

Drove it to the BD trailer, put in a full tankfull, making the result something like B80+. Drove 200 miles that day, parked it and haven't driven again until last Monday, when I had to use it to get to work. Again, fired right up.

I was able to drive Monday & Tues. on that year-old tankful, put about 60-90 miles on it, and then the Talking Lady said "Fuel Level is Low", so I headed for the BD trailer, only to find that our local supplier (new guy who bought the business last fall) took the proceeds from the sales of the last three 160 gal totes of fuel and spent them, and now there's a note in the trailer saying that he can't afford to buy more -- arrrgh.

So my local supplier is effectively out of business. After all the work I donated to the PO's BD business. Sheesh.

So I had to put $20 of PD in the tank. (Although I didn't notice the touted noise reduction when I switched to BD, I sure seem to have more noise now that I'm running PD80+). I've emailed a query as to who is the next-most-local supply of retail BD, no good answer yet. I am driving to Seattle today to look at an Aerostar with 80k "original miles" (it's a dealer, we'll see), and there is a BD pump along the way which I'll use.

So at the moment, there isn't anyplace closer than 40 miles (in a direction I travel only twice a month) to fuel up.

I investigated having my at-that-time oil distributor drop a 55 gal drum of B100 at our business with a hand pump. They were agreeable but there was no price advantage over our sorta-coop BD trailer. Now that the situation has changed, the Boss says I can keep a drum of BD at work, and I may try again.

I'd buy a Prius, but a 1992 example (ie batteries worn out) are selling for $15k here. Not in my tax bracket.

[asavage]

I'd buy a Prius, but a 1992 example . . .

Tyop. I'm living in the past, the rent is cheaper.

Sub "2002".

[philip]

I'd buy a Prius, but a 1992 example . . .

Tyop. I'm living in the past, the rent is cheaper.

Sub "2002".

BACK to the present and topic.

I'm half way through the tank of B20. I retarded the timing 4 degrees which did cut back a bit the cold engine combustion knocking.

Starting this morning was the worst yet. It ALMOST didn't start. When it did light off, it ran BADLY ... and died in spite of my best efforts after about 20 seconds. Restarted ok ... and ran rough. My downwind neighbor stuck his head over the fence for a second but didn't say anything.

I backed out quickly and puttered down the street.

Next stop was Mount Baldy ski lift. The road to this place is a paved trail orginally braved by mountain goats. Top elevation 6,500'. Last trip up, the truck would hold 3rd gear for the most part but this trip required extended dips into 2nd to hold 25 mph. Moderate black smoke noted past 4,500'. Before the B20/timing retard, this level of smoke wouldn't appear until 6500-7000 feet.



I walked around ... took a few pictures ... had a cup of cocoa. Ambient 50*. Restarting after 45 minutes was fine but the engine occasionally misfired during the first 2 minutes.

Ran fine the rest of the trip.

[philip]

SNIP- It's funny watching the price of fuel go up, people bitch and moan about it, then when we talk about foreign oil, everyone says "We should stop buying oil from the Middle East." -SNIP

Just how much crude oil and petroleum products do the top 15 countries move?

Also: US Oil Imports by Country

Click on the PRODUCTS box and choose a crude product. It's really amazing how much finished product (esp fuel oils) is floating around and where it came from.

[philip]

SNIP- It's (biodiesel) cleaner burning (leaving NOx aside for now). It's non-toxic if you spill it, unlike PD. It's harder to light (less flammable) at ambient temp/pressure.

Hold up for a second. "Harder to light" translates into Harder To Start. MUCH harder when temperatures near biodiesel's cloud point. And it is only fair to say openly that soy B99 goes cloudy at about 40 degrees and gells by 34 degrees. Compare that to un-winterized D2. But we all know that. (the B20 I have now supposedly gells by 5 degrees F).

What sticks in my craw is how negatively this tank of B20 has affected cold starting and power (with timing retard aggravating both). Fuel mileage is down but then ... that last 10 miles to Mt. Baldy on the floor in 3rd and occasionally 2nd gear invalidates any fuel mileage estimate using B20.

Regarding the claim of lower exhaust emissions, I would love to see a laboratory chart plotting D2 and B99 CO/HC/CO2/NOx/Soot emissions under load. And I want the chosen engine identified. I'm a numbers guy ... don't care much for vague claims (ie, x% less than D2) made by vested interests.

[philip]

I'm down to a little above the E mark on this tank of B20. Temps last night were in the mid 40's.

Engine started right up but continued steady/random misfiring for the first minute. Heading down the street ... same as yesterday ... plenty of steady combustion knocking with RPM increases. When the temperature meter entered the operating zone, combustion noise pretty much ceased.

I'll be glad to get straight D2 in this thing again. Then I can set the injection timing back up. These old things like heat and just the right amount of timing lead.

[exsimguy1]

Philip,
I (and I'm sure others) would like to see your test repeated without the timing retard. 4 degrees is a lot, evidenced by your hard starting, low power and extra smoke. B20 shouldn't endanger pistons at normal or even slightly advanced timing with good injection patterns and mindful throttle application, even on severe grades.

How about it, when you get a chance, back to back, timing difference only evaluation?