Has anyone actually tried one of these.

[michael30.06]

I know that the saying is a fool and his money are soon parted.
So from one fool, does anyone have experience of adding an electrolysis machine to provide Brown's gas also called HHO direct to the air intake on an older style diesel engine such as ours the reliable if slow SD's?
I know it causes problem on gas engines by allowing them to run too lean.
But you can't run a diesel too lean and overheat it.
I have seen lots of claims and youtube footage but all are on very modern Turbo and computer controled Diesels.
I am not a crank but the price of Diesel in far north of Australia just hit $1.78 a litre about $7.20 US a gallon, I need to keep the old SD on the road, after all I just replaced the clutch. Thanks for any replies.

[Nissan_Ranger]

Well, if you do try it, be sure to post here with your results...

N_R

[Zoltan]

The short answer is: it won't work. The second law of thermodynamics prevents such wizardry. Check my answer to a similar question.

[plenzen]

It’s bordering on, if not attempting to create "Perpetual Motion" and that aint been invented yet. Like using an electric motor to drive a generator that produces the electricity to drive the electric motor. Short of it is you can’t get something for nothing. In fact, Mythbusters (Discovery TV show) just did a piece on this very thing. They tried a whole bunch of things from internet, and purchased from infomercials, copied from U-Tube etc. etc. and none of them worked. (Water bubbling hydrogen generator included) Some of them actually gave poorer performance, and MPG's declined with their use. They were ultimately able to get "free" deep fat fryer oil from a restaurant and burn it in an old Benz and got slightly lesser MPG's with it, but it was "free" and the car ran on it! Goes back to the old saying: “If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is".
FWIW

P

[dieseldorf]

Wood gas would certainly work as a fuel, at least in a gasoline engine. It was used by the Germans during WWI. There are plans for the generator on the internet.

[asavage]

Burning wood gas works because the energy was accumulated somewhere else (like gasoline, for example).

Onboard electrolysis, OTOH, requires that one burns one fuel to make another fuel, requiring several energy conversions.

Gasoline (hydrocarbons, et al) oxidized -> mechanical motion -> alternator -> electricity -> electrolysis -> hydrogen oxidized -> mechancial motion.

Is there a favourable conversion ratio in there somewhere?

[weezle_deezle]

Hydrogen is a great combustion add-in. See all that black smoke coming out the exhaust? Thats excess fuel. What happens if all that burns in the combustion chamber instead of being thrown away? More power and better efficiency, thats what. This is NOT a free ride Zoltan, learn about the second law and what it means- don't naysay what you don't understand. You simply use a bit of H2 to finish the combustion where it counts- YES it works. In gassers and in diesels and in turbines and in woodstoves H2 can be very useful. A tiny bit (1-4% of incoming air) finishes combustion for you in the chamber where you can extract the energy instead of ejecting partially cracked fuel out the tailpipe. I have built many electrolysers and PWM controllers and am installing them for friends as a research project. I would be glad to share all the technical info I've learned and all the physics and chemistry involved. Go check out the info I posted in the main forum - SD subsystems I think.

[Nissan_Ranger]

Hydrogen is a great combustion add-in. See all that black smoke coming out the exhaust? Thats excess fuel.

'All that black smoke' comes out of the tailpipe of a diesel because there isn't enough oxygen to fully combust the injected diesel fuel. Adding another fuel mixture like HHO isn't going to solve that problem. Changing the timing for a given load, air temperature, engine temperature, air mass and so on can help complete combustion; it still remains that too much fuel is too much fuel... Modern diesels such as the powerstroke and duramax burn as well as they due by the use of precisely timed multiple injections of fuel at pressures that make our SD 22s look like flathead gassers sucking through two circuit updraft Marvel-Scheblers.... Sorry. The burden of proof is on you. Come back with dyno and pailpipe analytics that prove your case and I'll reconsider the whole thing. Otherwise, it's just snake oil...

N_R

[sd22,23or25]

the big trucks use lp gas to boost horse power should work in a small diesel

[Knucklehead]

The key term for understanding that this is not snake oil is the term catalyst rather than fuel. It works the same way propane injection does. The big question is whether the system is engineered properly to provide the proper amounts, and safely.

[philip1]

here is the problem with so called HHO injection. In order to produce enough HHO you have to have a large "generator". This thing will take a lot of power to operate adding load to the engine through the alternator causing more fuel to be burned and less efficiency. This idea has been beaten to death by the ecomodder crowd and any gains are spent operating the generator. basically it doesn't work. Anyone claiming they got 50+ mpg by using this system are selling a red herring.

[philip1]

here is the problem with so called HHO injection. In order to produce enough HHO you have to have a large "generator". This thing will take a lot of power to operate adding load to the engine through the alternator causing more fuel to be burned and less efficiency. This idea has been beaten to death by the ecomodder crowd and any gains are spent operating the generator. basically it doesn't work. Anyone claiming they got 50+ mpg by using this system are selling a red herring.

[Knucklehead]

Some simple numbers would be nice, reference to any actual hands on experience. Neither hoopla nor naysaying are sufficient. What are the numbers? There is nothing wrong with the theory. It is no different than talking about an electric supercharger. How many watts/hp does it take to drive the charger regardless of the mode of drive (efficiency factors aside, and what are those factors?)? Yes it would take a significantly larger alternator (how large? Think blower drive belt on it.), but the crankshaft does not know whether it is driving a belt for an alternator or a direct drive. Yes there is cost, but there is an increase in net hp.

There seems to be a hangup on the idea of "free energy" by some who think they have the laws of thermodynamics all sewn up. If you raise the compression ratio to extract more energy from the combustion, is this free? Seems like a red herring.

I have a large hydrogen generator. I neither time nor motivation to discover the numbers. If you live in Phoenix and want to put it to the test, you are welcome to borrow it.

I learned a precious lesson from Phil Arthur years ago. Don't talk as if you know what "is" unless you have done it, because someone may call you on it. Show me the numbers. Bottom line.

[philip1]

this is probably more for than against but you can look at the posters gas logs to see if they are selling the shed or telling the truth.

gassavers.org

I am a member of the main site.

My disclaimer: You may agree with the proponents or not I will henceforth leave that up to you.