Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

SD diesels were widely available in the US in the 1981-86 Datsun/Nissan 720 pickups, and in Canada through '87 in the D21 pickup.

Moderators: plenzen, Nissan_Ranger

buckshot
Posts: 24
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Ocala, Florida

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#16

Post by buckshot » 3 years ago

OK, guys, this all sounds good. Tomorrow afternoon I will be picking up the four NGK 1232 plugs and getting them in. I will give some thought to getting the CN 433's to have on hand if these don't hold up. I too had one of the glow plugs give me a problem on removal. When I got it out it was also ballooned but not broken at the end.
Question. With my putting this engine in a 2000 Sonoma do any of you folks know the degree of angle the SD22 engine/transmission should have sitting in s Nissan pickup truck. I am going to the Chevy/GMC site to question the degree of angle the 4.3 V6 had that was in the truck. Thanks again all.
Have fun,
buckshot
Take time to smell the roses before you end up under them ! ! !

Road rage can be hazardous to your health ! ! !

plenzen
Posts: 868
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Cochrane Alberta Canada

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#17

Post by plenzen » 3 years ago

One thing I forgot to mention and I hope you read this before you try and start the engine. Have a small piece of card board at the ready to drop over the intake. With the fuel rack being "sticky" and, should it stick again upon start up you could very well have a runaway on your hands. I can tell you from experience that is a pretty exciting event :shock: :shock:
Once your sure that the rack and those plungers are moving freely ALL THE TIME you should be good to go.

Al Savage ( system admin asavage ) went to some pretty in depth research on glow plugs some time ago.( 10 yrs now )
There is some real good info here as it pertains to these little guys.

Have a look here:

http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org/viewtopi ... ug+numbers

You may also want to look into using some of this stuff on a regular basis as well.

https://www.amazon.com/STANADYNE-DIESEL ... B009LPTDG2

Not sure what the angle of the trans is in the Nissan but it's pretty flat from looking at it.
Retired Pauly
Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN

buckshot
Posts: 24
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Ocala, Florida

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#18

Post by buckshot » 3 years ago

Yup, I am aware of the run away issue. I have a piece of light plywood ready to block the intake. I picked up the NGK 1232 glow plugs and will check out the Chrysler/Nissan type for later use. I have them installed but it got late and I will try to crank it sometime tomorrow. I have a tandem trailer to do seals and
bearings on in the morning. I am looking forward to seeing smoke and fire out of this thing. I connected with a Nissan mech at the local dealer who looks as
old as I am and speaks of a number of transplants. According to him, I should consider putting a small Kabota turbo on this engine. I have thought about this
very thing. I will have to look into something that will get me no more than about 10 lbs of boost. Anyway, First things first. If anyone out there can put a
degree gauge on the block of your truck I would like to find out the degree of angle through the drive train to the rear end. I couple years ago I got done with
a 32 Ford extended cab street rod pickup and have the angel at 5 degrees for the old 327 and the five speed stick in it. I am trying to post a pic of the engine
and the Sonoma pickup that I hope will be the engines new home.
Attachments
Sonoma Datsun Transplant 002.JPG
Sonoma Datsun Transplant
Sonoma Datsun Transplant 002.JPG (3.47 MiB) Viewed 2408 times
001.JPG
Sonoma Datsun Transplant
001.JPG (3.43 MiB) Viewed 2408 times
Take time to smell the roses before you end up under them ! ! !

Road rage can be hazardous to your health ! ! !

waynosworld
Posts: 517
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Vancouver Washington USA

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#19

Post by waynosworld » 3 years ago

It's not easy to turbocharge one of these SD series engines with an inline injection pump, there are going to be quirks/issues, mine gets terrible mileage, but I have lots of power for such a small diesel engine.
You realize these are a vacuum controlled throttle.
I cannot tell if the injection pump has the rod going to the controller on it from that photo, it will never start if the rod is connected as the controller plug is not connected to anything.
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.

plenzen
Posts: 868
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Cochrane Alberta Canada

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#20

Post by plenzen » 3 years ago

I do not have a degree gauge but I can put a small level on the valve cover and measure how much to bring it back to level if that will help you ?


EDIT:

Put a small level on the valve cover.

It drops 11/16" at 6 " which I believe calculates out to about 6.5 degrees.

Hope this helps.

I used this to calculate. Not sure if its right or not but I assume it is

http://learnframing.com/angle-calculator-slope-degrees/
Retired Pauly
Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN

buckshot
Posts: 24
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Ocala, Florida

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#21

Post by buckshot » 3 years ago

No, the rod that goes to the controller is missing. I have to find out that length they are so I can male one. The controller is there and I also have the double plug box that feeds the controller, what ever that is called ? I thought that if I added the turbo I would increase the fuel mileage as well as the power. If that is not the case I will not mount the turbo. I have pulled loaded trailers with the Datsun before it was totaled and it a pretty good job. I am in hopes of pulling a small ultra light (all aluminum)
camper. The truck, with out a trailer, got about 37 mpg when it was running back in the day. Thanks for checking the degree of angle. I will look up the Sonoma angle and come up with a average some how. I am surprised that the pics made it to the site. Now I know I can post some more as this thing comes together. Thanks again for you folks following along and offering you advice.
Take time to smell the roses before you end up under them ! ! !

Road rage can be hazardous to your health ! ! !

plenzen
Posts: 868
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Cochrane Alberta Canada

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#22

Post by plenzen » 3 years ago

What's the rear end gear in the Sonoma ?
Retired Pauly
Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN

waynosworld
Posts: 517
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Vancouver Washington USA

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#23

Post by waynosworld » 3 years ago

buckshot wrote:No, the rod that goes to the controller is missing. I have to find out that length they are so I can male one. The controller is there and I also have the double plug box that feeds the controller, what ever that is called ? I thought that if I added the turbo I would increase the fuel mileage as well as the power. If that is not the case I will not mount the turbo. I have pulled loaded trailers with the Datsun before it was totaled and it a pretty good job. I am in hopes of pulling a small ultra light (all aluminum)
camper. The truck, with out a trailer, got about 37 mpg when it was running back in the day. Thanks for checking the degree of angle. I will look up the Sonoma angle and come up with a average some how. I am surprised that the pics made it to the site. Now I know I can post some more as this thing comes together. Thanks again for you folks following along and offering you advice.
If the arm is missing then it will start if everything else is right.
The thing about the DPC module, injection pump controller, and glow plug timer is that you also need the diesel harness to plug them devises into, they do not plug into each other, you can start, run, and shut down the engine with a choke lever and a heavy duty button to warm up the glow plugs, but to have everything plug and play, you need the diesel harness unless you are very good and can make your own harness, there are a lot of wires that make the engine easy to start, run and shut down, oil pressure is involved, a couple dash lights are involved, even the glow plug warmer has a timer that one of the lights is connected to, there is a lot involved with them 3 devises.
I have an arm that I can get you a measurement from, but there are different length arms, don't know which one you need.
Another thing to keep in mind about my turbocharger is that Larry the guy I bought this work in progress engine from changed out the intake vane to a larger vane, the idea was to build up boost faster at low rpms, as he kept them below 2000rpms, he didn't like the way I test drove it, but took my money and walked away, I now understand why he kept them below 2000rpms, it would get too hot(EGTs) if one drove it normally, I could not drive it that way, so it sat in my driveway for a couple years while I tried to make it more driver friendly, I finally figured it out when I set my mind to figuring it out, I changed how he did the whole thing, now it hardly ever gets above 1200 degrees, it gets hotter if I put my foot into it on a hill, it is a mostly driver friendly truck now, I can ride along with someone else driving it and not have to say much at all.
The reason I said all this is that when he changed out the intake vane, he made boost build up fast, and it stays up, I cannot get out of boost on the hiway, going 65mph or more I am at 8psi or more boost all the time, when I let off and push the pedal back down to keep a steady speed, I am right back up to 8psi boost or more depending on how fast I am trying to go, I cannot get out of boost.
Now I have this valve I use to control the injection pump rack while driving it, before I put this valve in I would hit a wall at around 60mph(2400rpms), if I put my foot deep into the pedal I could get around 8mph more, I am fairly sure I was getting good mileage, but I wanted to be able to do the speed limit without having to almost floor it, the reason I had this issue was because I was running lean even with the smoke screw completely removed, I needed more fuel to go faster, I talked to the guy that made the pretty red engine at the top of this page, he said something that gave me an idea, so I ran a hose from the intake to the valve to the rack vacuum line that controls the rack, now when I let off the pedal I have a vacuum present in the intake, that helps pull the rack back to idle, but when I give it pedal I build boost, that boost controlled by the valve helps the rack move to a richer position, well that wall I had at 2400rpms totally disappeared, I can go as fast as I want now, now if I were to start closing that valve and restricting how much boost the rack sees/gets, I am fairly sure my mileage would go up, every once in a while I close that valve a couple clicks, but my power is still up, and the mileage is still down, so I have not found a happy place yet, I am hoping to get it back up to over 30mpg and still have power.
I am turning 330 gears in the rear, I could likely turn 308 gears also, but they are not available for the rearend I have under the truck, I don't believe I could turn anything in the 270/80/90s, I do just fine with the 330 gears, and I can still tow vehicles with it without any issues, my engine is a SD25 with an inline injection pump, and a smallish turbocharger made for a 1600cc gas engine I believe.
Basically I am getting crappy mileage because I have a lot of power.
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.

buckshot
Posts: 24
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Ocala, Florida

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#24

Post by buckshot » 3 years ago

OK, Here we go again.
Finely, I got smoke and FIRE. This afternoon as soon as the back yard temp got right I went out and got everything hooked up and with the new glow plugs in I hit the switch. It cranked a bit and lit up. Once running it did not hesitate or burp at all, it was firing on all four.. When I hit the throttle I was surprised at how responsive it was. When you check out the pics you will see the smoke and a big grin. Again I am glad you guys are hanging with me on this. I sure value your feed back. I don't know what rear is in the Sonoma yet. I do know it had a 4.3 V6 with an automatic. So it will be a tall rear for a manual 5 speed. When I go to the junk yard for the clutch linkage I am going to check to see what they want for the rear that is in that truck. When I was building my 32 Ford pickup I used a ford (273 ratio) 8 inch rear out of an Mavrick which had a 289 with an automatic. A whole bunch of people told me it would never work. That the rear was too tall. That I would always be slipping the clutch. Being an old coast to coast truck driver from back in the day, I wanted to have tall gearing in order to run the highway without having my old 327 cranking its guts out. Well, all those guys were not too good with their assumptions. My 327, Chevy 5 speed and the 273 rear work perfectly ! ! ! I could not be happier. Even with the flat front and flat windshield I can get just over 18 mpg while cursing at about 65 mph (as long as there is no head wind). We will be taking the 32 down to St Petersburg, Florida this Saturday to a car show. Oh, by the way, it will not be going south on a trailer. Wayne, do you know why there are different lengths of control rods? I would have thought they would not differ for the same engine (SD 22) ? ? ? If you guys have a chance to measure the length It would help me in making one. Wayne, With all the problems I see you having with the turbo, I think I will just leave it alone. Eighteen years ago when this Datsun was on the road I drove it with and without loaded trailers and it never heated up. I am in hopes of using it to pull a my ultra light camper so I am not going to mess with it. As long as I get the gearing right I will be happy with it. Happy Saint Pattys Day.
Attachments
2014 Tampa Street Rod Nats 012.JPG
2014 Tampa Street Rod Nats 012.JPG (3.33 MiB) Viewed 2357 times
SD 22 Smoke and Fire 002.JPG
SD 22 Smoke and Fire 002.JPG (3.32 MiB) Viewed 2357 times
SD 22 Smoke and Fire 001.JPG
SD 22 Smoke and Fire 001.JPG (3.39 MiB) Viewed 2357 times
Take time to smell the roses before you end up under them ! ! !

Road rage can be hazardous to your health ! ! !

handcannon
Posts: 57
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#25

Post by handcannon » 3 years ago

All three pics are worth a thousand words! In that second pic you definitely have a great big grin on your face. It is really good to see that you found the right combo to get it started.

In the morning I will try to remember to measure the rod on the control motor. I'm assuming you have the control motor, just not the rod that goes between the IP lever and the control motor. I was able to get the control motor to operate all three positions/stops for the IP lever.

Initially the control motor wouldn't stop reliably at each location. I used a rotary double pole switch and some information about the control motor wiring/testing I found to wire the switch. I recently found a whisker from one of the stranded wires was sticking out where it had been contacting another wire. As soon as I removed that whisker the control motor stopped correctly at each of the three positions.

Now that I have the control motor operating as it should I am going to get a four position ignition switch and see if I can get it to operate the control motor properly. The switch positions needed are 1) off (motor and vehicle not running), 2) accessory (stop position on the control motor), 3) run (will be run for the control motor and IP), and 4) start (will be the over-inject for the IP). We will see tomorrow just how much rain we get (forecast runs from 55% to 90%). if it isn't too wet I just might do some junk yard hopping to see what I can find for an ignition switch.

Don

buckshot
Posts: 24
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Ocala, Florida

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#26

Post by buckshot » 3 years ago

Don,
Yes, I have the control box as well as a second box with two multi plug connectors. Thanks in advance for the control rod length measurement. I am going to try to use the existing Sonoma ignition switch and wire in the control box circuit. it's enough to drive you to drink when a wiring problem taxes you to no end. But when you solve the problem it's not soon forgotten. I too went to the junk yard and bought the clutch pedal linkage to install now that I know the motor is up and running. I think I am going to check out the listings or put in an add for a 2000 Sonoma or S10 for a parts truck to cover up and stash behind the shop.
Have fun,
buckshot
Take time to smell the roses before you end up under them ! ! !

Road rage can be hazardous to your health ! ! !

waynosworld
Posts: 517
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Vancouver Washington USA

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#27

Post by waynosworld » 3 years ago

The only rod i was able to find was 7 5/16ths from center of hole to center of hole in length, I do know I have had an engine that this length didn't work so I had to make one, maybe the injection pump was timed different on that engine.
The turbo isn't so bad, it seems like it is the only diesel I drive now, the naturally aspirated one seems gutless to me, but the issue more likely is that it has a dead battery right now so is a hassle to start, I have a lot of derivable vehicles, so that one seems to get ignored.
The turbodiesel engine is the easiest diesel engine I have ever owned to start, but as every year has went by it starts to get a little harder to start, now(winter) it blows a little white smoke for a minute, even though it is not missing, but when I start driving it that white smoke disappears, the engine might be getting tired, Larry said it was an old engine when he got it and I have been driving it a lot.
I know the voices are not real,
but they have some really good ideas.

plenzen
Posts: 868
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Cochrane Alberta Canada

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#28

Post by plenzen » 3 years ago

Great pics.
I like your 32 as well as well your "smile of success."
Hardly smoking at all really. :wink:


I'm guessing your Sonoma has 3.4's or 3.5's ( but that's only a guess ) and, I believe that the Nissan has/had 3.8's. so you may be pretty close.
Retired Pauly
Problem with being retired is that you never get a day off.
1987 D21-J SD25 KC
KJLGD21FN

handcannon
Posts: 57
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Need help with not being able to get fuel to injectors.

#29

Post by handcannon » 3 years ago

I completely forgot to get a measurement on the rod for you. My apologies. It did rain a little bit Friday, but not enough to keep me from visiting a junk yard.

Waynosworld posted up a length of 7 5/16ths inch from center of hole to center of hole, which is the same as mine. The rod isn't completely straight. It does have a little dog-leg of about 5/16ths in the center of it. The length is measured without taking into consideration any extra length the dog-leg adds. You could probably get by without adding that dog-leg, and just have the rod straight.

The fact that you have all the extra electronics/boxes with the motor should make things a lot easier for you.

Keep posting your progress. I like to keep up on these things as that helps keep me enthused about the swap that I plan on doing. I have my Dad's 1973 Datsun 620 pickup and am planning to drop the SD-22 into it.

Don

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