IP question (for Philip?)

[zen]

Would you know if the start facility on the ip..ie more fuel, would work at full throttle..ie will give more fuel if asked to..or only gives more fuel up to the max rack position, so if all ready flat out and start position engaged no effect?

Asking due to the fact looking for way to increase fuel delivery at max throttle,but only when i want to..(ie when the nitros is engaged)

If it wont.got any ideas on how to??and do you know anyone who is properly clued up on propane injection...thanks

[philip]

Would you know if the start facility on the ip..ie more fuel, would work at full throttle..ie will give more fuel if asked to..or only gives more fuel up to the max rack position, so if all ready flat out and start position engaged no effect?

Asking due to the fact looking for way to increase fuel delivery at max throttle,but only when i want to..(ie when the nitros is engaged)

If it wont.got any ideas on how to??and do you know anyone who is properly clued up on propane injection...thanks

Which IP do you have now? Last time I heard ... you had the Bosch Inline withpneumatic governor diaphragm.

JUST for an idea.

Notice the Fuel Control Lever. This mechanism limits the control rack maxium fuel delivery. The pneumatic governor pulls back from that limit. So ... I would think that if you needed more than the fuel lever/control rack position that you would need a way to push forward the fuel control lever.

[philip]

Would you know if the start facility on the ip..ie more fuel, would work at full throttle..ie will give more fuel if asked to..or only gives more fuel up to the max rack position, so if all ready flat out and start position engaged no effect?

Asking due to the fact looking for way to increase fuel delivery at max throttle,but only when i want to..(ie when the nitros is engaged)

If it wont.got any ideas on how to??and do you know anyone who is properly clued up on propane injection...thanks

Which IP do you have now? Last time I heard ... you had the Bosch Inline withpneumatic governor diaphragm.

JUST for an idea;

Notice the Fuel Control Lever. This mechanism limits the control rack maxium fuel delivery. The pneumatic governor pulls back from that limit. So ... for those rare times for "nitros" or propane ... I would think that you needed more than the usual fuel lever/control rack position. To do that special need, you would need to push forward the fuel control lever (as the "start-up" position would do). Of course, the additional position of fuel control lever movement is going to have to be discovered.

Notice ... the Smoke Setscrew has a spring loaded tip. With additional pressure, the Fuel Control Lever can be pushed override until additional pressure is relieved. This is how the brief START position occurs.

[zen]

Ok, thanks. Confirmed what I had hoped... (re which IP I have, now running inline manual controlled governor type from sd33 T, thus removing the tb and losing heaps of egt!)

Time to play ... (and before you ask I do have 2 spare engines ready to go, just in case )

[philip]

So now you have the Bosch RLD injection pump(?). What sort of monkey mechanical do you compensate for propane or "nitro"?

[zen]

it appears to have identical/similar start/run/stop to the vac governer type previously fitted..

in fact looking at them,(going from memory here) it appears that the govereners are interchangeable..so prehaps galen could find a harvester scout powered by sd33t ip locally and swap/modify governers over..so using the sd22 body with sd33t governers..worth a try as he is after manual control..

re lpg/propane injection..thats quite easy,the ip is left as and mini computer regulates gas quantity depending upon boost..i mainly want propane for emmision controls...

i have the nitros system ready to go now.(needs fitting) but first i need to somehow modify my dpc to run on 12v..mine are 24v.(only ones i can find as all the nissan patrols here were 24v,but my range rover the sd is fitted in is 12v(except the starting,which is 24v))

[philip]

it appears to have identical/similar start/run/stop to the vac governer type previously fitted..

Pictures ... Zen.

[zen]

will get some tomorrow for you in the light..bit dark now..

[biodatsun]

Hello Zen, I noticed at the bottom of your signature you have "sd33t home turbo set up if anyone is interested." I sure would be interested in seeing pics as I am also trying to turbo my sd22 as well. I would also like to see pics of your pump and any advice you could give. If your not able to post the pics here could you please email me directly.

Thanks

[asavage]

Zen has some hosted here.

[Knucklehead]

I found that with the smoke screw set all the way back the "start" and "run" positions make no difference. The rack will bottom out in the end cap on the front before it will touch the controller stop lever, i.e. the stop lever is like a finger that only touches the high side of the rack travel if it goes that far, but with the smoke screw all the way out, the stop lever is further back than the stop bolt in the end of the rack will allow it to go. I think the stop bolt must be adjusted in to allow further travel if you want to take advantage of the "start" enrichening feature. But I don't know your pump exactly.



Obviously you're looking for more than the factory turbo IP settings. Does your IP use the Controller? Hmm. Even so, most nitrous systems have a fuel spray bar as well as a nitrous bar so the two come on at the same time and are preadjusted to be in tune with each other. That would be the way to go for use with propane.

[philip]

I found that with the smoke screw set all the way back the "start" and "run" positions make no difference.

That would be true when the engine is running because the pneumatic governor pulls back the Control Rack away from the Fuel Lever when positioned at RUN. But when the engine has no vacuum on the pneumatic governor then ... the spring on the pneumatic governor pushes the Control Rack as much rich allowed (forward) by the Fuel Lever RUN limit which is set by the Smokescrew Set. And yes, there is an ultimate limit position on the Control Rack (found on the opposite end position) which is adjusted/limited using a bolt/nut length under the cap next to the fuel inlet banjo. This would occur when the Fuel Lever moves to the START position.

[weezledeezle]

I noticed many conversations in the forum about the throttle system. I think the stock system is crap and therefore I built a mechanism to use a cable to control a cam which when pushed in engages a set of idle screws, and when yanked on pulls the IP lever to KILL. The DPC is already out in the scrap heap- no electronic anything belongs on a diesel in my opinion (ie-Ford Powerstroke- YUCK). My right foot will directly control the fuel lever, and the throttle body (post turbo) is sprung wide open and will have another cable to allow air kill for descending grades, and emergency kill for when the valve seals start leaking. I built my own BOV. Pics will come- I promise.

[asavage]

The DPC is the ON/OFF/START portion of the system.

While you disparage the DPC system, it worked very well for many more years than a typical GM throttle body controller. Nissan used the system for about twenty years. Yes, the relay that controls the motor wears out. Yes, the electric motor dies. After a good, long life. What's the reliability of a 1982 Chevy wiper motor? Crap, is what.

If you are not using the DPC system, would you send me those parts if I paid for shipping + a little for your time?

As to the pneumatic governor: because the pneumatic governor doesn't allow the addition of a turbo in the most efficient manner (although Galen ran a turbo with the pneumatic governor for YEARS), it is an impediment when seeking more performance than 61 SAE HP. With that, I agree.

Electrics and electronics are here to stay in modern life. If you seek to remove electrics from your ride, more power to you -- but a moderately complex purely mechanical system is even worse. As an example: when Nissan dropped the purely-mechanical pneumatic governor on the SD in the 720 (which really is purely mechanical: it will run fine without electricity), they eliminated the throttle body and changed to a Bosch-licensed VE-style injection pump. The guts of a VE IP is a miracle of cams, levers, compensation springs, counter-compensation springs, torque control adjustments, housing pressurization timing control mechanics, etc etc. I know this because I own "the book" on the VE-style IPs. It's also a relatively fragile IP.

By comparison, the older Inline injection pump is bulletproof and rarely gives trouble, outside of alternative "fuels".

I've been fighting mechanical injection pumps back to the Kugelfischer gasoline mechanical fuel injection on the early 60's MB gassers, and they are plain mean to adjust or repair. I'll take troubleshooting/repairing the Kiki-Diesel Inline IP any day, over one of those. One leather diaphragm, that's pretty much it.

[Knucklehead]

My right foot will directly control the fuel lever, and the throttle body (post turbo) is sprung wide open and will have another cable to allow air kill for descending grades, and emergency kill for when the valve seals start leaking. I built my own BOV.

While you have my interest, you also have my doubts. You cannot (at least I cannot) control the rack directly. There is no single position at which the motor will idle. The control of the rack is a very dynamic balance between user input, load, and rpm. If you take the rack capnut off the front of the pump you can watch the end of the rack while the motor is running and at an idle it is bouncing back and forth like a sewing machine. If you beat it I definitely want to follow in your footsteps.

If you do control the pump manually, why will you keep the TB? The engine braking will not be significant. (Wouldn't it be the cat's whiskers to have a Jake? Every time I get out of my big truck I keep reaching for the switch.)

If you are going to keep the TB open, there will be no manifold vacuum and no worry about oil getting sucked past valve seals. I doubt you could leak enough oil into this motor to make it run and still have it be capable of running, ie by the time it's that worn it won't even be able to hold compression. I think that's a concern from the old Detroit two strokes. Anyone ever had a problem with this? Mine was using a ton of oil with those gasser rings and it would barely run.

If your TB is always wide open, why would you need a BOV?

Your thinking sounds like things I used to think. If you can do it the way you want, good for you, my ears are open.

Gotta get back to crating up my baby grand.