How do you roll start this engine?

[karotto]

Hi there,

This is my first diesel and I have questions about roll starting it. When I rolled down a hill to roll start the car with a low battery I was not surprised that the compression is much higher than a gasoline engine. So I used 4th gear insted of 2nd since the wheels would lock up when I released the clutch. Only when I was going really fast I actually managed to sucessfully roll start the car. This is strange. When I roll at about 15 miles/h and then pop the cluth in 4th gear I am sure that the wheels turn the engin at a higher speed than the started does. Still, most of the time it will not start. Also, how can I roll start the car in an emergency if the battery is completely dead? Isn't some power required to keep the fuel pump relay open? Any tips are very much appreciated.
Kent

[asavage]

Hello, Karotto:

Two things come to mind:

a) The glow plug system must run before you begin turning the engine over. Depending upon the ambient temp., they have to run for up to 46 seconds. What you describe sounds like one or more of these things may be the cause:

• Insufficient GP warmup time: you didn't wait long enough after turning the key to ON, before rolling the car;
• The battery isn't in good enough condition to run the GP system
• GP controller is not turning on GPs, or GP relay faulty
• GP fusible link bad -- very common problem
• Bad GPs

Without the GPs working properly, you can crank an IDI diesel a looooong time before it will light off!

If the battery is completely dead, you should not attempt to start an IDI diesel, period. When it's not firing, you are squirting liquid fuel into the cylinders, which isn't very good for them or your lube oil. And, as you've noted, you piss off all your downstream neighbors when it does light off, with the cloud of stinky smoke.

b) On the stock IP control system, the IP will not "turn on" until you put the key into the START position. The IP remains OFF until that occurs. Merely warming up the GPs then rolling it leaves the IP OFF -- Philip can clarify, but I suppose that it's possible that the IP may turn ON if the oil pressure comes up with the key in the ON position. Philip has written extensively on the IP Controller function and operation, including posting a link to a movie of it in operation, and scans from the Factory Service Manual. Read up!

Best all around is to have a new battery of sufficient CCA rating (750 minimum) instead of screwing around with a marginal battery -- diesels do not take to worn-out batteries as gracefully as gassers. And fix the GP system, it'll save your starter -- and it's an expensive and hard-to-replace starter. I wrote a GP system troubleshooting guide somewhere. Try the "Search" button on the top of this page, or read at random, there's a lot of useful info in this forum.

[philip]

Hi there,

This is my first diesel and I have questions about roll starting it. SNIP How can I roll start the car in an emergency if the battery is completely dead? Isn't some power required to keep the fuel pump relay open? Any tips are very much appreciated.
Kent

First, I 2nd all of Al's advice. And by the way, there is no "fuel pump relay" on these trucks. The only fuel pump is mounted on the outboard side of the injection pump. See the "Lift Pump" thread ... which is the correct name for the fuel pump.

For bump starting, the glow plugs have to be HOT (glow plug light has just extinguished itself). You then have about 8 seconds to get the engine fired off.

Setup: The Fuel Control Lever has to be in the RUN position. Normally the Fuel Control Lever will be moved automatically from OFF to START by the controller motor under the injection pump. But you are bump starting so you need that Fuel Control Lever in the RUN position before you start coasting down the driveway.

Step 1: Turn your ignition key to ON. Go under the hood and separate the "Transmission" connector. If you have some battery charge left, the controller motor will move the Fuel Control Lever to START and then to RUN. See "Injection Pump Controller & DPC module" thread if the system does not respond correctly.

Step 2: Turn the key OFF. Turn the key back ON again (reruns the glow plugs). Run the glows as you are gaining speed. When the glow plug light goes OUT, let the clutch out. Ya need to sorta synchronize launch velocity with glow plug light extinguishment.

After you get the engine running, stop the vehicle and reconnect the 'transmission' connector ... otherwise the engine will not shut down.

[karotto]

Excellent help. Thank you. I would love to learn more about thins engine. Not sure how... 1 more question though: Suppose my battery is absolute dead and I am parked on a long hill and I am in the wilderness with no help in sight. Is there a way to switch the fuel control lever manually into run position? If not, I assume there is absolutely no way to start this engine with a completely dead battery in an emergency, right?


Thanks again

Kent

[philip]

Excellent help. Thank you. I would love to learn more about thins engine. Not sure how... 1 more question though: Suppose my battery is absolute dead and I am parked on a long hill and I am in the wilderness with no help in sight. Is there a way to switch the fuel control lever manually into run position? If not, I assume there is absolutely no way to start this engine with a completely dead battery in an emergency, right? Thanks again

Kent

As Al said earlier,

1) the GLOW PLUGS have to be hot for this engine to start when cold.
2) the Fuel Control Lever must be in the RUN position before you bump start.

With a flat dead battery, you are going to need a LONG down hill at speed and ... if the engine temperature is in the 40's or lower, you can pretty much forget the whole idea of getting one of these things to fire off.

Why are you resisting having a DECENT battery installed?

[asavage]

What Philip said . . .

If you disconnect the IPC push/pull rod from the fuel control lever, the fuel control lever will spring to the "Run" position. If you really do have a very long hill and the ambient temp is reasonable, it'll start. It had better be in the 60s or higher though. Throttle closed (move less air through = better chance to build some minor heat).

The SD22 is one of the few automotive diesels that will run without electricity -- once you get it started! The MB diesels with manual IP controls (200D and older) or vacuum controls (240-300D to ('85?)) are another. The Bosch VE IPs (VW, other Nissan including SD23/25, etc.) all require juice for the stop solenoid to open, so you can't run them without a little electricity, period. Same with the GM & Ford V6 & V8 diesels with the Stanadyne IPs. The Peugeots I've seen too. Don't know about others.

[philip]

Excellent help. Thank you. I would love to learn more about thins engine. Not sure how... 1 more question though: Suppose my battery is absolute dead and I am parked on a long hill and I am in the wilderness with no help in sight. Is there a way to switch the fuel control lever manually into run position? If not, I assume there is absolutely no way to start this engine with a completely dead battery in an emergency, right? Thanks again

Kent

While we are talking about dead batteries and difficult starting (presumably in colder weather), you might take a look at these threads:

"COLD weather fuel concerns"
"Glow Plug Experience"
"Injection Pump Controller & DPC Module"

[ecomike]

Speaking of dying batteries, thought I would revive this dying thread, LOL.
So yesterday, my starter decided to shear the bottom mounting bolt off that was trying to hold the starter in place. Never found the upper mounting bolt. Happened in the Wallyworld parking lot.

So I took a look, dug through my spare parts in the jeep, and I found two new bolts in my war chest, the right size even, but near as I could tell, while trying to remount the starter, it looked like both old bolts were sheared off leaving the remains in the threaded hole. So I pulled the starter out, and sealed off the starter wires, hot wired the glow plugs for a few seconds, got a push in the parking lot, and let the clutch out in first gear. Took less than one second to start and it was purring like a kitten running in first gear, like it had "No worries Mate!".

I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to start this engine that way on my jeep.

Got under it with a drill to drill the studs out today and found one hole clean and ready to use (still not sure how that happened, could have sworn it had a sheared stud left in it yesterday), and started drilling and trying to easy out the remains of the second one. Jury is still out that part, bottom bolt hole revival, as I already past the drill bit size for the using a thread restoration heli-coil insert that I bought as a back up. May be stuck using an oversized bolt on it now. The OEM bolt was an M10-1.5 (IIRC), about 1" long.

Long story short, it is much easier to push start mine, all it takes is the glow pug wire clamped to the battery post for a few seconds and some help pushing it.

I decided to go ahead and swing for a new starter while I am at it. The one I had looked like the original. Got a HD geared one, lifetime warranty, from Autozone for $89.00. The old one I had looked to be direct drive, much bigger and heavier, and a Btch to install because of the weight too, but it looked like it was on its last legs.