Starter Solenoid Doesn't Like Weak Battery

[HowlerMonkey]

I just replaced the negative cable with one out of my old 280zx turbo and no longer have cranking issues.

[Carimbo]

Yes I see where this could be a problem area on mine. DVOM (sorry Philip, my analog VM is long gone) showed 0.15 VDC when attached to neg batt. post and frame ground (washer bottle mount) while cranking, and 0.60 VDC when attached to neg batt. post and front engine hoist hook. Was not able to repeat this test because that is when the starter refused to turn more.

Following the neg. batt. cable, it runs to just below the battery tray and attaches to the body there, then continues over to under the PS pump and must mount to the engine somewhere under there, can't really tell w/o removing the PS pump, it looks like. That second section may be where it's having problems.

Ended up taking out the starter and found the the nut holding the wire from the starter motor to the solenoid terminal post itself was loose, and the nut/bolt/washer/terminal looked well-cooked. --This condition may have damaged the starter motor over time-- Cleaned everything up, bench-tested (as best as I could-- gear kicked out and motor spun freely), reinstalled and was able to start the car for the rest of the day.

Next morning, tried to start, engine was sounding like it was ready to catch, and..... starter motor quit. Temps in the low-mid 20's F here lately which is compounding the problem.

If the neg. batt. cable is marginal, then I should be able to overcome that by running a good jumper cable from the neg. batt. terminal to the engine as a test, correct?

[Carimbo]

My spare starter's got a bad solenoid . That's the one from the Silver '82 in the Lynnwood JY.

Wonder if that is the reason it ended up in the JY. IP belt was intact, remember?

[asavage]

My second "spare" starter (from my spare LD28) also has a bad solenoid. I'm going to have to look into buying a couple of them. Both starters have running motors, but the solenoids won't conduct.

I could pull the starter out of the Myrna '83 Wagon, it's only two bolts and three wires. Let me know. But at this point I think you should be thinking in terms of a replacement solenoid or starter assy: based upon our smallish sample, I'd say that solenoids are a high-failure item on the Hitachi starter as fitted to the LD28.

[kassim503]

The starter solenoid also gives me problems on the gasser motor as well- sometimes it "sticks" or its "slow" so the gears jam when engaging the starter. Only intermittently though, so its not high on my priority list yet.

Since the solenoids are interchangeable, the solenoid might just have a bad design to it, or its 20 something years old and has met the end of its duty cycle

[asavage]

For those following this thread . . .

During further testing, Carimbo's starter started making unhealthy noises, got hot on the brush end, and the solenoid dripped molten solder. He bought a rebuilt from a FLAPS for $100 + $35 core.

Meanwhile, I just ordered every 23343-W1700 solenoid that the warehouse had: three, @ $33 each. I need two for my two "spare" starters, and I'm keeping a third on tap for when someone needs it. They'll be here tomorrow.

My source, if anyone wants to deal direct, is:

Colin, Owner:
Townsend Electric
360.385.3780

I'm certain that any competent auto electric shop could do nearly as well as Colin, but in a small town you like to deal with people you know and trust, and I keep going back to Colin.

He's not really set up to deal with orders from the internet, he's a one-man band. He also has the SD22 alternator shaft seal.

[Carimbo]

Starter arrived a day early, was able to install it this morning. Came in an Autolite box, had a Beck/Arnley sticker on the motor shell, P/N 187-0249. Inspected it, bench tested OK, tightened up the motor terminal nut just a little bit tighter, installed it, started the car right up in a few crank revolutions at 32 deg F, one glow cycle. What a difference! No comparison to before. Sounds like the new starter has the engine running 2-3x the RPM as before, startling almost. Seems like it would start w/o the GP cycle even.

We'll see how it lasts. Lifetime warranty, 2 years free roadside assistance (jump and up to $60 towing)(not sure what the jump is going to help a broken starter).

The old starter never spun the engine this fast in my owning the car since 1.5 yrs ago. Now beginning to think the old one is what brought the (Interstate) battery down.

[asavage]

I had a chance to take the solenoid off of one of my starters today and compare with the new ones I received yesterday.

The new ones look great -- except the screw orientation, to mount the solenoid to the housing. It's perpendicular to the lever axis, where the hole pattern on both of mine (and in the Parts Catalogue's exploded view) are at an angle of perhaps 30°. I've got pictures, but I think I'll wait to post them until I have more data.

So, tomorrow, I try for Take Two.

[Carimbo]

Yes I know what you are describing. The mounting screw holes need to be at the "odd" angle to the holes (for the torsion spring) in the face of the solenoid housing.

[83_maxima]

So I just read through this thread completley and learned some very interesting things.

My gasser has had solenoid/starter problems for a while. Turn key, click, turn key click, turn key, solenoid engages, car starts. It hasn't acted up lately, but can be a real bear sometimes.

The Pathfinder has a bad solenoid but only when the ambient temps are very hot 90-100 degrees. Solenoid will not engage. Tried to replace with a Napa "Echlin" (? sp) unit over a year ago and the mounting holes were incorrect, just like Al has encountered. It wouldn't work, I had to return it and re-install the old one. They said that there was a mid year change on the 95s and they didn't carry/couldn't get the other part #.

The diesel wagon's starter cranks quite slow, even when the battery is jumped, it will still spin quite slowly - basically no change. I don't want to kill a battery with a crappy starter/solenoid.

Al, did you ever get the new solenoids to work with the starter? I am curious.

[asavage]

Al, did you ever get the new solenoids to work with the starter? I am curious.

Yes. See the LD28 (Hitachi) starter solenoid post.