Why does the 83 use a different oil filter?

Discuss (and cuss) the Nissan LD-series OHC Six diesel engine, popularly available in the US in 1981-83 Datsun/Nissan Maxima Sedans & Wagons.

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goglio704
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Why does the 83 use a different oil filter?

#1

Post by goglio704 » 12 years ago

Did they change to a different filter in 83 to help the oil change interval or was there another reason? I really don't know if the oddball 83 filter is worth the extra cost. My blue 230k car (the converted one) has an 82 engine, so I have one of each. After this weekend, I should have two of the 82's. I really wouldn't mind having some uniformity there. Is the entire base different, or just the nipple?
Matt B.

83 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 5 speed, white, 130k miles. My original Maxima.
83 Maxima Sedan converted from gasser, LD28, 5 speed, 2 tone blue, 230k miles
82 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, 2 tone Gray/Silver, 140k miles
81 810 Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, rust, rust, and more rust!

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD

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asavage
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#2

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

Thank you, Matt, for providing this excellent opportunity to expound on the many benefits of bypass filtration again :)

The 1982 LD28 oil filter is a pretty standard full-flow device, capable on a good day of filtering, oh, 25 micron particles and larger on average, after it's plugged up a bit -- new filters let more crap through, it's the nature of the media. [that was a guess; see below for how close I was!]

For 1983, Nissan gave us a huge benefit in filtration: a combined full-flow/bypass filter. Part of the filter works exactly like the older one, but part of it uses much denser media and filters at a much reduced flow rate. Due to the dense media, it filters smaller particles, taking a longer time to accomplish the filtering. Some bypass filters slipstream the filtered oil back to the main flow, but the major problem with that method is that there isn't enough delta pressure across the bypass media to encourage oil flow.

The better method is to dump the bypass-filtered oil back to the sump, which is essentially at atmospheric pressure (on average), which gives a nice high pressure differential across the bypass media.

Wix's number for the '83 filter is 51094[/size] [img]http://www.wixconnect.com/ ... .gif[/img].
It's used on the Sentra diesel (CD17) '83-86 as well, and that's all it fits, so it's also expensive due to low volume sales. Some interesting specs:

Wix 51094
Type: Full Flow/By-Pass
Media: Paper
Height: 4.352
Outer Diameter Top: 4.300
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 1-12
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 290
Max Flow Rate: 12-16 GPM

Nominal Micro Rating: 6

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 3.052 2.470 0.173
Packed 0.716 0.498 0.109


Contrast this with the older filter, that lacks bypass filtration.
Wix's number for the '81-2 filter is 51521[/size] [img]http://www.wixconnect.com/ ... .gif[/img]
It fits a lot of other applications than LD28s.
Specs that differ from the 1983 filter:

Wix 51521
Height: 3.790
Outer Diameter Top: 3.660
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 325
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 19

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200


To summarize, the 1981-2 filter is different from the '83 in these ways:
  • It has a bypass valve
  • Its mounting nipple is 30% smaller
  • Its burst pressure rating is higher
  • Its flow rate is 30% less
  • The overall size is smaller
  • It only filters down to particles three times larger than the 1983 filter


I assume that's what you're paying for, when you buy the 1983 LD28 oil filter.

Image Image

[later addition]
See also this thread.
Last edited by asavage 5 years ago, edited 8 times in total.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

goglio704
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Location: East Tennessee

#3

Post by goglio704 » 12 years ago

I guess I don't mind paying extra if I'm getting extra. It would be nice to find the hardware to convert the 82's to the newer design. I'm not going to hold my breath. :roll:
Matt B.

83 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 5 speed, white, 130k miles. My original Maxima.
83 Maxima Sedan converted from gasser, LD28, 5 speed, 2 tone blue, 230k miles
82 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, 2 tone Gray/Silver, 140k miles
81 810 Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, rust, rust, and more rust!

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD

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asavage
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#4

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

A blast from the past post on this topic.

If we can get to the crank pirates before they trash the extras . . . that's about the only way you're going to find the oil filter adapter/cooler assy.

I'm not worked up about my '82 not having it, because I have a Motor Guard 30 external bypass filter for it (not installed yet) plus an electric preluber setup. When the engine gets transplanted sometime in the future, all the good bits will get plumbed in then. Until then, I just don't drive it much -- and I run real API Group IV synthetic oil, of course.

I just checked car-part.com, and there's a 1983 LD28 in Nashville for $350, at "Smitty's Auto Parts, Inc USA-TN(Nashville) 615-833-3399". They've got an '81 also for $300.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

goglio704
Posts: 726
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: East Tennessee

#5

Post by goglio704 » 12 years ago

You didn't come right out and say it Al, but the system on the 83 is the better type of bypass that returns to the sump?

The Wix 51091 also seems to work fine on the 83's and is a full flow / bypass design. It is longer though, and changing it is even less fun.
Matt B.

83 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 5 speed, white, 130k miles. My original Maxima.
83 Maxima Sedan converted from gasser, LD28, 5 speed, 2 tone blue, 230k miles
82 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, 2 tone Gray/Silver, 140k miles
81 810 Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, rust, rust, and more rust!

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD

User avatar
asavage
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#6

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

goglio704 wrote:You didn't come right out and say it Al, but the system on the 83 is the better type of bypass that returns to the sump?.
Yup. 1983 FSM, pg. LC-9.

(click on image for much larger)
Image
Last edited by asavage 5 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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240ZD
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Location: Longview, WA

#7

Post by 240ZD » 12 years ago

I put the huge Fram PH8A on my diesel 82' engine. It's twice as big as that little Wix thing. The stock one for the 280zx!

-samee-
"Man, your engine is knocking really bad..."~

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asavage
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#8

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

Fram uses cardboard media end caps, which can deform and lose oil around the edges. Fram is fairly widely regarded as a poor filter.

The '83 Nissan setup is very good, for the reason described above. You aren't going to significantly "plug" any modern oil filter using modern oils and 3-5k OCIs, so more single-pass filter media doesn't buy you anything.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

odie
Posts: 114
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: CC, TX

#9

Post by odie » 12 years ago

240ZD wrote:I put the huge Fram PH8A on my diesel 82' engine. It's twice as big as that little Wix thing. The stock one for the 280zx!

-samee-
The PH8A is the universal oil filter. Every custom filter set up uses the good old Ford V-8 type filte.

Is this really usable on the LD28?

I guess any filter that correctly mates to the filter housing should be fine? If the threads and gasket mate correctly it should be fine. Is the big thing with diesel filters their size due to being harder on the oil?
1996 VW Passat B4V TDI diesel...main ride
1983 Maxima LD28..sold
1984 Isuzu P'up diesel 4x4..sold
1981 Rabbit diesel - sold
1984 MB 190 diesel - for sale...sold
1987 MB 300TDT diesel...sold
1983 Holiday Rambler 6.2 diesel Banks turbo...sold
1983 Dodge Ram D50 2.3 TD diesel for sale
gas stuff-Jeep, Lebaron, Porsche, Harley

odie
Posts: 114
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: CC, TX

#10

Post by odie » 12 years ago

240ZD wrote:I put the huge Fram PH8A on my diesel 82' engine. It's twice as big as that little Wix thing. The stock one for the 280zx!

-samee-
The PH8A is the universal oil filter. Every custom filter set up uses the good old Ford V-8 type filte.

Is this really usable on the LD28?

I guess any filter that correctly mates to the filter housing should be fine? If the threads and gasket mate correctly it should be fine. Is the big thing with diesel filters their size due to being harder on the oil?
1996 VW Passat B4V TDI diesel...main ride
1983 Maxima LD28..sold
1984 Isuzu P'up diesel 4x4..sold
1981 Rabbit diesel - sold
1984 MB 190 diesel - for sale...sold
1987 MB 300TDT diesel...sold
1983 Holiday Rambler 6.2 diesel Banks turbo...sold
1983 Dodge Ram D50 2.3 TD diesel for sale
gas stuff-Jeep, Lebaron, Porsche, Harley

Carimbo
Posts: 459
Joined: 14 years ago

#11

Post by Carimbo » 12 years ago

odie wrote:The PH8A is the universal oil filter. Every custom filter set up uses the good old Ford V-8 type filte.

Is this really usable on the LD28?

I guess any filter that correctly mates to the filter housing should be fine? If the threads and gasket mate correctly it should be fine. Is the big thing with diesel filters their size due to being harder on the oil?
PH8A is a Fram P/N. It is listed in several part application books as applicable to the '82 Maxima LD28. It fits, and functions but look at some of the oil filter reviews on the web where they disassemble and study the internals-- Fram usually trails the others quality-wise.

It appears that the parts distributors are trying to cut costs by consolidating parts called out in the parts books. If they can find a popular part that is similar enough to a not-so-popular part but still functions in the not-quite-correct application, they start to list the more popular part to the application. This allows them to handle a smaller variety of parts yet more volume on the reduced variety, figuring that most consumers will not notice or complain. Lower prices?

I bet the original specs called for in the pre- '83 LD28 were different than what the current Fram PH8A offers (micron rating, flow rate, bypass rating, size, etc.)

Yes it will fit and function but would not be optimal. See this part of the LD2x-series diesel FAQ,

odie
Posts: 114
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: CC, TX

#12

Post by odie » 12 years ago

I remember Fram being the name brand "top shelf" filters.

I used to sell auto part while in college. The Fram numbering system was kinda the standard...or at least seemed to be. Many "house" brands and competing brands copied or had similar part numbers for the same application. Maybe a letter or suffix change but the same basic number sequence.

Kinda the same way Felpro part numbering system is sortta the standard for gaskets for many other brands.

Any PH8A based filter is going to be the same size & threads. But you can find an "8" size filter in any brand it's the same size filter. Just buy a better brand or known rating.

Isn't the main thing with a diesel filter it's larger size due to the engine being harder on the oil so the filter change interval remains similar to the "familiar" regular gas car oil change interval?

A micron is a micron. Any brand, type or size filter will do if the micron rating is correct. Just smaller needs replacing sooner. Don't they all have a by-pass for when they clog? It's just matching the right size filter to oil capacity and engine size/type so that the filter is still filtering and not bypassing when you reach the magic 3000 miles, or whatever your owner's manual calls for?

or am I rambling too much....
1996 VW Passat B4V TDI diesel...main ride
1983 Maxima LD28..sold
1984 Isuzu P'up diesel 4x4..sold
1981 Rabbit diesel - sold
1984 MB 190 diesel - for sale...sold
1987 MB 300TDT diesel...sold
1983 Holiday Rambler 6.2 diesel Banks turbo...sold
1983 Dodge Ram D50 2.3 TD diesel for sale
gas stuff-Jeep, Lebaron, Porsche, Harley

odie
Posts: 114
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: CC, TX

#13

Post by odie » 12 years ago

did a quick google search using "ph8a".

here is the top hit...

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

interesting...
1996 VW Passat B4V TDI diesel...main ride
1983 Maxima LD28..sold
1984 Isuzu P'up diesel 4x4..sold
1981 Rabbit diesel - sold
1984 MB 190 diesel - for sale...sold
1987 MB 300TDT diesel...sold
1983 Holiday Rambler 6.2 diesel Banks turbo...sold
1983 Dodge Ram D50 2.3 TD diesel for sale
gas stuff-Jeep, Lebaron, Porsche, Harley

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asavage
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#14

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

odie wrote:I remember Fram being the name brand "top shelf" filters.
Because they had the best advertising budget . . .
Isn't the main thing with a diesel filter it's larger size due to the engine being harder on the oil so the filter change interval remains similar to the "familiar" regular gas car oil change interval?
Soot is the major contaminant that is different than what a gasser ejects. And soot is not filtered to any great degree by a full-flow filter.
A micron is a micron. Any brand, type or size filter will do if the micron rating is correct. Just smaller needs replacing sooner. Don't they all have a by-pass for when they clog?
Burst pressure (case material). Internal bypass pressure rating (if the filter even has a bypass valve, many do not). Bypass valve design and material -- Fram has a shitty design which can bypass (leak, really) all the time. Anti-drainback valve design and material -- silicone is best, nitrile is common. And, of course, nominal micron rating. A few of the differences between filters other than size.

Unrelated: every mid-range diesel (Isuzu NPR, Nissan UD, etc.) I've been under has a bypass filter in addition to the full-flow. I don't know anything about semi-sized diesels though.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

odie
Posts: 114
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: CC, TX

#15

Post by odie » 12 years ago

well...

if the application specific filter for the LD28 is harder to find, not in stock, NLA or significantly more $,

and if the PH8A type filter fits...

why not just buy the best available PH8A type filter (not a FRAM) and use that?

I think that last link shows an AC filter in the PH8A type size to be pretty good in the tests. And probbaly only a couple buck on any parts shelf.
1996 VW Passat B4V TDI diesel...main ride
1983 Maxima LD28..sold
1984 Isuzu P'up diesel 4x4..sold
1981 Rabbit diesel - sold
1984 MB 190 diesel - for sale...sold
1987 MB 300TDT diesel...sold
1983 Holiday Rambler 6.2 diesel Banks turbo...sold
1983 Dodge Ram D50 2.3 TD diesel for sale
gas stuff-Jeep, Lebaron, Porsche, Harley

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