1974 Chrysler Nissan CN4-33 exchange with 1982 SD-22

SD diesels were widely available in the US in the 1981-86 Datsun/Nissan 720 pickups, and in Canada through '87 in the D21 pickup.

Moderators:plenzen, Nissan_Ranger

Post Reply
Tom Young
Posts:40
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Rockport Maine
1974 Chrysler Nissan CN4-33 exchange with 1982 SD-22

#1

Post by Tom Young » 13 years ago

This thread outlines the process of repowering a 1961 Alden Challenger sailboat with a newer SD-22. . The CN4-33 installed in 1974 was the marinized version of the SD-22. The process begins below.

Only lurking, I found a ton of info I needed for my Nissan SD22. The biggest reason to lurk is, my SD22 is in a 1961. 38' Alden Challenger sailboat. The engine was installed in 1974.

I'm coming out because I need advice. Having followed some of the threads for some time, I think the expertice and knowledge I need is here.

With my SD22 showing increased smoking, slower starting over the last couple of years, last winter I; pulled my injectors and sent them to a local Maine shop that rebuilt them. At the same time I pulled the glow plugs and found one faulty and ordered new ones from Jesco in Calif. They also supplied the correct sealing copper washers. I may well have not known they existed and how to get them out without this board.

The rebuilt injectors came with the wrong washers. I installed the injectors and glow plugs (I do all the maintainence on my old boat Christmas) and saw a lessening in the smoke and things were improved.

Now after a long season, the diesel is smoking worse than ever and is also running unevenly at lower idling speeds. She's also using a bit of oil-over a quart in a hard 35 hour run down the coast.

So I'm here; I intend to check the compression at haul out in a month or two. I suspect the engine will show some compression problems. If I'm wrong, I suspect the fuel injection pump may have problems. Maybe I'll be lucky, and it will be both (not!)

At any rate, I've had Jesco send me a list of rebuilt parts, they appear to have them all.

So here's my questions if you knowledgeable folks have time to give me your valuable opinions;

Is the SD22 worth the expense to rebuild? I don't care about new or resale, I only care about having a good reliable easy to service marine diesel (which I have in the SD22) If the rebuild is the way to go, I will pull the engine myself (I've done this before), and haul it in my PU to THE SHOP that will be rebuilding it.

How do I find THE SHOP? Here in Maine, we have many qualified diesel shops, but the SD22 is not that well known. What should I be looking for in the right folks to do the actual rebuild?

If it turns out it's a fuel injection pump problem, I'm thinking the shop that rebuilt the injectors (they have a good reputation here in Maine) may be the direction to go. Likely a rebult Bosch pump? Maybe I'll be addressing each.

That's probably enough questions for now. A new diesel would not only cost 10 to 12 K with all that is needed, exhaust, engine mounts etc. would require redesign and building and added expense.

I would do most of the work (repowering) but if the SD22 is the rebuildable engine I believe it may be, why bother? I like the engine and would be happy to rebuild if I thought it was the right thing to do. Back on the same mounts, exhaust etc.

So far, the SD22 (the Chrysler/Nissan marine version in 74') is good engine and I would be happy to have it onboard for another 30 years(would I be that lucky).

Thanks, Tom Young Rockport Maine.
Last edited by Tom Young 12 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#2

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

Tom, the SD22 is a durable engine and is worth rebuilding, esp. in your situation. Having just had one apart that had a LOT of miles on it (pictures near the bottom), I can say it's well built, though just a tad trickier to work on in a couple of areas, such as the crankshaft seals and liner replacement.

If your engine has the pneumatic governor with the leather diaphragm, then uneven idling is probably not going to be a compression problem, it'll be a torn diaphragm. But I think for marine duty that you probably have the CAV injection pump and mechanical governor. Pictures would be especially helpful here.

If you don't have the suitable injector adapter specified by Nissan & Chrysler, checking compression is difficult. I have fabricated a special low-profile glow plug adapter that works very well, and the whole gauge/adapter setup is available for rent -- very cheaply -- but with a hefty deposit.

Philip is on vacation, but I'm sure he'll chime in when he returns.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

Tom Young
Posts:40
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Rockport Maine

Thanks Al. From your photos...

#3

Post by Tom Young » 13 years ago

of using your compression test set-up, I have the same fuel pump, looks identical. I'll take some photos, I have no way to post them right now (I'm having trouble with my verizon website) so I'll need to straighten that out.

I certainly would like to rent your equipment for compression testing. Is it simply a matter of pulling the glow plugs, threading the adaptor and turning the engine over?

Once I know the state of the engines compression, (I think) it will be easier to decide how to proceed. Thanks Al.

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

Re: Thanks Al. From your photos...

#4

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

Tom Young wrote:I have the same fuel pump, looks identical.
Read up on the pneumatic governor diaphragm here. You may have the Inline Injection Pump (IP) but have a mechanical governor rather than the pneumatic governor. The difference is in the shape of the governor cover at the rear of the IP. If that cover has a vacuum fitting on it, and your engine has a throttle body with a vacuum line on it, you have the pneumatic goveror. Another way of knowing this is if your accelerator control goes to a throttle body on the intake manifold.

Image
I certainly would like to rent your equipment for compression testing. Is it simply a matter of pulling the glow plugs, threading the adaptor and turning the engine over?
Yes. While you must count the "puffs" and always use the same number of puffs for all cylinders, and you'll want a good battery for cranking, and be sure to take out ALL the GPs before starting, that's basically it.

One of my two diesel compression tester setups just got shipped back east and won't be back for about a week, but after that I can ship it to you. PM me for the financial details.

I have two setups (gauge + special fabricated adapter) but I don't have a second GP adapter (the part that actually screws into the head). When I get a second one of those, I'll have two complete setups to loan/rent out and there won't be any delay. The compression tester setup has been rather popluar here.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

crzhors
Posts:25
Joined:14 years ago
Location:Bocas Del Toro,Panama

Sailing Nissans

#5

Post by crzhors » 13 years ago

Howdy Tom, Good to see another Nissan Marine owner here.Hope we can share knowledge, Our "Challenger40" is in the UsersRigs section. Good Luck,
JD
SD22 Marine=M4-33 1974Challenger 40

Tom Young
Posts:40
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Rockport Maine

Hi JD,

#6

Post by Tom Young » 13 years ago

I'm sure I could use your experience. I've owned this boat for 8 years so have begun to know the Nissan quite well. It's tight too and alot of the work I do from a manhole cover access through the cockpit sole.

I've be rowing out this weekend to find out about my injector pump details and will take a few photos.

It's good to know theirs alot of experience here. Al has already answered some questions and raised some new ones for me.

Thanks to Al, here are two photos; back of the IP and front of the SD22

Image Image

Thanks, Tom

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#7

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

That's the mechanical governor version of the Inline IP, so forget everything I said about "diaphragm". I think establishing a baseline compression test would be where I would go next, since you've already had the injectors overhauled.

Tom Young
Posts:40
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Rockport Maine

A new wrinkle in my engine thread.

#8

Post by Tom Young » 13 years ago

Approaching haul out soon and performing the compression test, I've been asking around about shops for a potential rebuild.

A local diesel shop mentioned a local man with 30 years experience working in service for Nissan cars/trucks. Except for servicing the SD22, they never did any major overhaul work on one.

But guess what he has and MAY be interested in selling? 1982 PU he bought as a project a few years ago and just doesn't think he'll do it. Body is rotted, etc. 77,000 original miles that his shop maintained. He starts and runs it occasionally, says it's in great shape and was well maintained.

First off (assuming all above is true), would there be any problem "marinizing" the 82 with my; heat exchanger(generic part) intake manifold, etc? I would assume the same block so my engine mounts would fit (will replace them with new). I suspect there will be some differences, IP, governer?, minor that shouldn't be a problem. Being newer, could be an improvement in several of these parts-not subject to 30+ years in the marine environment.

Plus, if all this is true, I would have a wealth of spare parts.(maybe someone here needs some?)

He needs 2 days to decide. If he's interested, I'll be headed to the engine with camera in hand. Any thoughts on first price? What should I anticipate he'll ask? I expect a rebuild would cost at least 2K shop work alone? I've been busy lurking the other threads and learning alot about these engines.

Thanks, Tom

Tom Young
Posts:40
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Rockport Maine

Update on this thread.

#9

Post by Tom Young » 12 years ago

With a late haul-out last fall, winter settled in too fast to warrant a compression test (no cooling water available) so the sleeping dog lies.
Spring will be a better opportunity, still a month or more away here on the coast of Maine.

I've been lurking though and getting a lot of good info over the winter. My possible used engine and owner (mentioned above last fall) went to sleep as well but a call to him yesterday showed he still has interest.

I've also put a few e-mails out for a potential rebuilding shop nearby, but no responses yet.



Further update; A New England shop who used to rebuild the SD 22 and 33 no longer has the "tools" for this so declined. Still no concrete experienced local shop has been found. Looking through the threads I noticed some estimates for cost of rebuild, thanks on that. I'm not keen on a rebuild unless the shop is experienced with this engine.

And now back to the used engine. The mechanic has decided he has too many projects and wants to sell his 1981 SD 22. So again, he's not so much sellling an engine, he's selling and engines history.

As the mechanic at the dealership from the time this vehicle was sold new, he did the routine maintenance/lubirication for the owner. When the body gave up the ghost, he bought the car from the owner in 2002 just to salvage the engine for an unknown project car. He's started and run the engine a few times a year since.

The original owner put 77,000 local Maine miles on the vehicle over the 20 years it was owned. A real little old lady car history. This seems to work out to around 1500 engine hours. This is all very compelling, I like this engine and simply want a good reliable twin in our boat that is in good working condition.

He wants 1,000.00 for the engine pulled after I've inspected it and run it all I care to in the vehicle that he will crush. Too tempting, I'm going to look it over on monday,.... it's 5 miles down the road.

I plan to take some photos and compare to my CN 33. From what I've read here, I'm hoping it has the same IP pump. I'll switch my marine manifold, heat exchanger, front belt pulleys/raw water pump, alternator mount (I have a high output on the CN33), mounting brackets that fit the boats engine mounts, etc. etc. This switch will allow me to clean, prime, paint the SD22 in my garage with the CN33 next to it.

It's a gamble, a used engine, but very tempting in my situation....any opinions?

Tom Young
Posts:40
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Rockport Maine

I've met the SD22.

#10

Post by Tom Young » 12 years ago

It started up quickly, ran strong and smooth and didn't smoke beyond a little white smoke at start up.

The mechanic/owner will remove the engine as well as the intake and exhaust manifolds (I'm concerned on reading about breaking studs here) and anything else that may be a problem (lower pulley).

It's an 82, has the same IP pump as my M4-33 (which I suppose is the same as the CN4-33) and looks to be the same engine. Some nice features to the SD22;

an all metal oil filter tubing system with spin on filter (my M4-33 has hoses(I've replaced) and a cartridge filter.

a cleaner injector return line set without leaking rubber hose connections.

no mechanical tachometer and shorter water pump housing which could enable me to move some cabinetry aft IF I can utilize the hosing, thermostat housing outlets, etc with my swapped marine manifold. If not, I have all the parts to convert plus of course the extra raw (salt water) pump that cools the heat exchanger which mounts same as the posted engines.


My first concerns are the motor mounts and locations. Most of the SD22s posted have the bell housing removed. As I can't see under the truck (it's in the mud and sinking), I wonder if the SD22 used the rear motor mounts in these trucks. The thread link below shows the CN4-33 bell housing like my M4-33 which has the tapped bolt holes for mounting the aft mount.

Is this just a bell housing on these motors (CN4-33, M4-33) that should swap onto the SD22?

http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org/viewtopic.php?t=773

I also wondered about the forward mounts which are two tapped bolt holes cast in the block. They looked slightly aft to me. Tomorrow I will take some measurements.

Is there any chance these blocks changed locations like motor mount after the M4-33 (CN-33)? The engines look identical in all other areas and I would think things like these mounting holes would stay standard. Any ideas?

Everything else looks the same or easily adaptable to my appication. Thanks for any help.

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#11

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

The SD, as mounted in the 720 PU, does not have mounting provisions at the rear. The pics of the marine versions you link to, are on a bolt-on bellhousing. AFAIK, all SD2x engines use the same bellhousing bolt pattern, so you would re-use your existing bellhousing adapter.

AFAIK, there is no SD22 that had alternate motor mount locations: all should be the same on the block's sides.

But I've been wrong before, and I'm no expert.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

Tom Young
Posts:40
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Rockport Maine

Thanks Al.

#12

Post by Tom Young » 12 years ago

I appreciate your opinion on the block, of course that makes sense. This engine has been around for a long time and I see the bell housing on other industrial/marine engines displayed here.

I plan to call Jesco today to see if they might have any concerns form past experience. With that settled, I'll probably go for the engine.

Can anyone advise what else I might ask the mechanic to do (remove) to the SD22 before I take it?

Also, I'm not sure what he has planned, but the truck is complete, transmission etc, if anyone is interested I'd ask about other parts.

And eventually, I may end up with what to do with my old M4-33. I'm thinking to save the obvious stuff, then wondering about things like the IP pump, starter, injectors, lines etc. etc. leaving me with just a block to find a home for?

or...

Should I try to sell (to recover a portion of the SD22) the M4-33 (which needs work) complete?

Also; on the throttle linkage; you'll notice in my photo above how my M4-33 is connected through a throttle cable to the IP. I see the linkage is different on the SD22, but in the same spot. This and the solenoid shut off are different (mine pulls a chain down to the fuel stop lever), anyone see any problems making another, simple, connection?

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

Re: Thanks Al.

#13

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

Tom Young wrote:Also, I'm not sure what he has planned, but the truck is complete, transmission etc, if anyone is interested I'd ask about other parts.
I'm always interested in spare GP Controllers (to the right of the glovebox, mounted up in the right kick panel), DPC Modules (underhood, near right hood hinge), and since you are not going to use the vacuum-pump-equipped alternator, I can use cores for rebuilding too. Never toss a diesel transmission, as the bellhousing has value, but I can't afford to have the trans shipped that far, not with the price of transportation skyrocketing. Door locks, Ign. lock assy (no keys needed) but those are more work to pull than is usually warranted, and I get them very cheap at the JY here. I just hate to see them scrapped.

While it's a lot of work to swap the crank sheaves, you may want to investigate just why the marine version of the SD uses the sheave and water pump setup it does, and convert your engine to use the marine setup. Because I don't know, I can't fairly advise, but there must be a reason, and perhaps it's a good one.
Also; on the throttle linkage; you'll notice in my photo above how my M4-33 is connected through a throttle cable to the IP. I see the linkage is different on the SD22, but in the same spot. This and the solenoid shut off are different (mine pulls a chain down to the fuel stop lever), anyone see any problems making another, simple, connection?
This may take some fabrication. If you retain the 720's pneumatic governor IP, you will need to extend your existing throttle cable over to the other side of the engine where the 720's throttle cable attaches at the throttle body.

The 720 version IP has a three-position mode lever on the IP, where your marine version may have only two. The IP mode lever is detented to "Run". You can pull or push to "Stop", probably with your existing linkage, but you likely cannot adapt your present linkage to give all three modes. Maybe you'll need the "Start" mode for easy starting, and maybe not. If the temperatures are mild and the engine is in good condition, it seems as if the 720 SD starts OK in "Run" mode.

Also, the swing to "Stop" may be the wrong direction, so you might need a bellcrank to reverse the direction of your rod travel.

You could go three ways with this:
  1. Extend accel cable on boat to mate with 720 throttle body; fabricate boat's Run/Stop linkage to mate with 720 IP mode lever and disregard the "Start" mode;
  2. Extend accel cable as above, and use the 720 DPC Module & IPC motor to control the IP modes. You have the DPC Module and wiring from the 720, so the majority of the work is getting the On and Crank signals to the DPC module. Bit of wiring work there;
  3. Move your marinized IP and intake manifold to the 720's engine: no fabrication, no modification.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

Tom Young
Posts:40
Joined:13 years ago
Location:Rockport Maine

Re: Thanks Al.

#14

Post by Tom Young » 12 years ago

On the marine cooling set up, I have a hunch it's due to the plumbing required for the large marine manifold which is also the coolant reservoir (the manifold holds about a gallon of antifreeze) for the fresh water side of the cooling system (the raw cold ocean water simply cools the anti freeze as it's pumped through the heat exchanger bolted to the rear).

Once I have the two engines together (I'll take photos then to post), it may be easier for me to understand.

Which brings me to your next section;


I'm thinking your 3rd option Al, may be my only good one. The marine manifold has the air intake on the bottom. The marine manifold has a simple spark arrestor like cage around it with a flimsy foam air filter. (I plan to look into finding or build a better arrangement for a replaceable air filter) I think it would cut down on noise too.

There is no way to mount the throttle body onto this marine manifold. As a boat engine is really an industrial type use (you set throttle to about 80% and go for hours without touching it), this simpler system could be best. If anything, this motor has excess power for the boat.

Also, in a salt water environment, anything electrical that can be avoided, should. Glow plugs will be switched manually to a push button switch and solenoid as existing in the panel. I don't think I need the extra fuel setting available on the 720 IP for starting.

I've been reading some of the IP posts on timing etc. Do you see a problem swapping the old IP and governor? Is this something I should get a diesel mechanic to do or could take on myself(after finding out how to do it correctly/timing)?

I would prefer the 720 IP with lower hours but the existing IP seems to be working fine. Can the Kiki in line IP be swapped later (to the different governor) if I need it or would I be better off having the old IP rebuilt at a some future time?

Thanks Al and anyone else for advice.

A further update today; I talked to a sevice man at Jesco in Calif. where I 've ordered parts in the past. He seemed to think I should have no major problems with the conversion and advised switching the IP's as well. I believe they will have all the gaskets and misc I may need. They had no other air filter arrangement with the marine manifold.

They stopped stocking the foam replacments and now advise people to just make their own. I may have to stick with the original air filter arrangement.

This looks like a go and could be (?),...fun.

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

Re: Thanks Al.

#15

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

Tom Young wrote:I've been reading some of the IP posts on timing etc. Do you see a problem swapping the old IP and governor? Is this something I should get a diesel mechanic to do or could take on myself(after finding out how to do it correctly/timing)?
To clarify: when you say "governor", we are talking about the rear section of the IP. As opposed to the "timer", which is mounted within the gear at the front of the IP.

Changing the IP as an assembly, complete with governor and timer assy, should be a snap. Make certain that your existing IP mounts to the timing cover with four studs & nuts. I would expect the swap to be merely nuts & bolts, with the important exception of removing the Timer assy. from the front of the IP. It must be removed to get the IP off, and there's a special tool to do the job. I've never used the tool, but I thought I'd warn you anyway.
I would prefer the 720 IP with lower hours but the existing IP seems to be working fine. Can the Kiki in line IP be swapped later (to the different governor) if I need it or would I be better off having the old IP rebuilt at a some future time?
I don't know if the governor at the rear of the IP can be interchanged, but I think there is a good possibility that it could be. Members Galen and zen have more experience at this detailed level than do I.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests