LD28 Glow plug information

Discuss (and cuss) the Nissan LD-series OHC Six diesel engine, popularly available in the US in 1981-83 Datsun/Nissan Maxima Sedans & Wagons.

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asavage
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LD28 Glow plug information

#1

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

I will add general glow plug info in this post. This will become an LD-series FAQ item.

The LD engines' GPs are 12mm dia., (1.25 pitch) on the head end, and 5mm on the terminal end. Some mfgrs supply plain 5mm terminal nuts (usually 8mm across the flats) and a spring washer, others supply a flanged nut, and still others a knurled OD nut that is larger overall.
Manufacturer      Part No.        MY Range      Remarks                Voltage     Picture
Nissan            11065-W2500     1981-83 
Beck/Arnley       176-1035        to 12/81 only (1)                                 NAPA
Beck/Arnley       176-1036        12/81-on      (1)                                 NAPA
NGK               3829 (Y204TS-1) 1981 only     Non-QGS Type (1)(3)      12v        NAPA
NGK               4573 (Y204RS)   1981-83       QGS Type (4)             12v        NAPA
Bosch             80017           1981-83       old #0250202013           6.5v      NAPA
Champion          189             1981-83       old #CH60                11v        NAPA
Monark            090507010       to 12/81      for 'Laurel' 2.8D        11v
Autolite          1104            1981-83       (2)                      11v        NAPA
Lucas             DS016(A)        ??????        unverified app            6.5v
Beru (PDF)        GV 888          1981-83       "Order No." 0 100 220 113 6.5v
Delphi (PDF)      HDS231          1982-84       prob. 12/81-83            6.5V
Note 1: BA & NGK seem to be the only mfgrs to have a separate GP listing for 1981-early-'82.

Note 2: Don't use Autolite GPs. Why? It's been confirmed that the Autolite GPs, when used in the 6.9l/7.3l Ford (IH) engine, swell when overheated, as can happen with certain faulty GP controllers (in the Ford application) or user-installed GP controllers (in all applications). The swollen GP tip then breaks off when removing the GP, and falls into the cylinder where it can ruin the piston if not removed -- and removal of the tip can mean removal of the cylinder head.

Note 3: (from NGK)
NGK wrote: Quick-start type

Quick-start type glow plugs are a type of sheathed glow plug that have a heating curve whose resistance changes with the temperature. The resistance is initially low so that plenty of current flows through the heating curve. The temperature increases faster than in standard plugs – and as a result the preheating time reduces.
Note 4: (from NGK)
NGK wrote: QGS sheathed type

A QGS sheathed glow plug heats up extremely quickly. However, a special QGS control device is needed. There are two different, non-interchangeable types of quick-start glow plugs. The first type has one heating coil with a low resistance which is designed for an extremely high current flow. The second type has both a heating and a control coil. This guarantees that the resistance increases with temperature and therefore provides a certain degree of temperature control. These glow plugs have very short preheating times and improve the cold start performance. Safety information: If the voltage is generated for too long and the temperature is too high, the glow plugs can melt and crack. Therefore the control device or relay must either reduce or completely switch off the current flow as soon as a temperature of about 900°C is reached.
Generic GP removal advice:

If you are removing a glow plug, and it turns with reasonable torque for a turn or two, but then becomes hard to turn, STOP. Remove that cylinder's injector, bring that cylinder's piston to TDC, then remove the GP. Chances are that the tip of the GP will break off and fall into the prechamber (and then the GP will turn easily again). If the piston is at TDC, the broken-off tip can't fall out of the prechamber and into the main cylinder. With the injector and GP removed, you can now use compressed air (in the GP's hole) to blow the tip out the injector hole, thus avoiding the need to remove the whole damned head.

Don't think you can just start the engine and "blow it out the tailpipe", because severe engine damage can and has been done trying to use that method.
Last edited by asavage 12 years ago, edited 20 times in total.

goglio704
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#2

Post by goglio704 » 13 years ago

One other thing to note, the factory plugs and at least the NGK's are a self regulating design. http://www.ngk.de/Sheathed_type_glow_plugs.691.0.html They heat very quickly, but drop their current draw in proportion to their level of heat. I think some of the cheaper replacements do not have this feature and take longer to heat. If I'm right, this means that the glow plug controller probably turns these cheaper plugs off prematurely.
Matt B.

83 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 5 speed, white, 130k miles. My original Maxima.
83 Maxima Sedan converted from gasser, LD28, 5 speed, 2 tone blue, 230k miles
82 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, 2 tone Gray/Silver, 140k miles
81 810 Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, rust, rust, and more rust!

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD

glenlloyd
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#3

Post by glenlloyd » 13 years ago

Beru makes a very good plug, comparable to Bosch. The application guide says model GV888 is the correct plug for LD28 engines.

sa
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

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asavage
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#4

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

But who sells the GV 888 ? Google doesn't find anything. I found the US Beru distributor contact info:

BERU Corporation
3800 Automation Ave, Suite 100
Auburn Hills, Michigan 48326-1782
1.248.7540.104
1.248.7540.113
eduardo.vultorius@beru.com

More information. Referring to the 2004 Beru Application Guide:

Page 9 (Buyer's Guide)
"GV 888", lists only the Nissan Maxima, implying that this GP is not shared with any other application.
"GV 685" not listed.

Page 30 (Application Guide)
Nissan
11065-W2500 -> GV 888 (obviously our LD28)
11065-16A05 -> GV 685 (which Nissan engine? Anybody know what this Nissan part No. fits?)

Page 50 (Specifications)
GV 685 isn't listed. Obsoleted? Discontinued?
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

glenlloyd
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#5

Post by glenlloyd » 13 years ago

asavage wrote:I found the US Beru distributor contact info:

BERU Corporation
3800 Automation Ave, Suite 100
Auburn Hills, Michigan 48326-1782
1.248.7540.104
1.248.7540.113
eduardo.vultorius@beru.com
You found the same info I did, the application info is good but the cross-reference is limited.
asavage wrote: Page 9 (Buyer's Guide)
"GV 888", lists only the Nissan Maxima, implying that this GP is not shared with any other application.
"GV 685" not listed.
I find this odd since I know that the Bosch and the Autolite both share application with VW.
asavage wrote: Page 30 (Application Guide)
Nissan
11065-W2500 -> GV 888 (obviously our LD28)
11065-16A05 -> GV 685 (which Nissan engine? Anybody know what this Nissan part No. fits?)

Page 50 (Specifications)
GV 685 isn't listed. Obsoleted? Discontinued?

I found this in the cross-ref as well but didn't mention it since the guide didn't indicate which other Nissan engine it was for. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to email the distributor and ask about the oddities in the application guide. Maybe we can get an answer about the second part, the 16A05, and whether GV 685 is obsolete.

sa
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

glenlloyd
Posts: 640
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Location: Des Moines, Iowa
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#6

Post by glenlloyd » 12 years ago

So what would it take to convert a car produced before 12/81 to the system used after 12/81?

sa
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

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asavage
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#7

Post by asavage » 12 years ago

A semi-casual FSM perusal of the schematics for '81 and '82 show no difference that I could see. If there really is a difference, it must be within the GP controller. Based on that guess: change the GPs and the GP controller for the later one?
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

glenlloyd
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#8

Post by glenlloyd » 12 years ago

I found this interesting cross-reference at Delphi. It has their own application guide for plugs and controllers and a cross-reference to a very long list of other makers plugs. It even lists Iskra plugs which I very rarely see although I know that BA repackages Iskra.

Delphi catalog

It's a PDF so you can save a local copy.

steve a
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

Pascal
Posts: 13
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: Belgium

Glow plugs with voltages of 6.5 V 11V and 12V

#9

Post by Pascal » 12 years ago

Hello,

Why are there different voltages. Is this related to the voltage of the battery?
I almost bought Bosch 0250202013, but then I saw they were 6.5V, so I cancelled the sale.
Can you swap 6.5 an 11, 12 V plugs?
Did Nissan ever made cars with the LD28 and 6V battery? Does not seem likely in the eigthees.

Pascal

goglio704
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Location: East Tennessee

#10

Post by goglio704 » 12 years ago

If I'm not mistaken, the low voltage numbers on glowplugs indicate the voltage that the plug can operate at for a long period. A plug which can run indefinitely at 6 volts will heat very quickly at 12 volts. This gets you quick starts, but it also makes the plugs comparatively easy to damage.
Matt B.

83 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 5 speed, white, 130k miles. My original Maxima.
83 Maxima Sedan converted from gasser, LD28, 5 speed, 2 tone blue, 230k miles
82 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, 2 tone Gray/Silver, 140k miles
81 810 Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, rust, rust, and more rust!

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD

glenlloyd
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Location: Des Moines, Iowa
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#11

Post by glenlloyd » 12 years ago

The plug voltage is independent from the chassis system voltage. As I see it, and I think this is consistent with Matt, the low voltage plug will energize faster because it takes less voltage to bring it to temp. In other words, a 12v plug will not heat as quickly as a 6v plug with 12v applied.

The nissan chassis voltage is 12V, the plugs as shown in the list, are either 6.5v or 11v, which should be an indicator of how quickly they will heat in the system I would guess.

this is all i may or may not know (no warranty expressed or implied! :lol: )

steve a
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

Pascal
Posts: 13
Joined: 12 years ago
Location: Belgium

Glow controller and 6V 12V

#12

Post by Pascal » 12 years ago

I can see what you mean, but I don't understand how they can work with the same GP controller. The (pre)glowing time is determined by the controller only in function of the temperature. The GP is connected to 12V directly via the relais. The after glowing time can be dependant on the GP because the controller measures the voltage between th GP and the resistor.

Pascal

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asavage
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#13

Post by asavage » 10 years ago

asavage wrote:11065-16A05 -> GV 685 (which Nissan engine? Anybody know what this Nissan part No. fits?)
11065-16A05 = CD17 / Sentra

minimog
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Location: Somerset, U.K.

#14

Post by minimog » 10 years ago

Are 24v GPs available for the LD28, say for a marine or industrial application? The vehicle I have an LD28 fitted in has a 24v system. If 24v ones aren't available how can I drop the voltage for the GP heating system?
Regards, David.

rlaggren
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Location: San Francisco

#15

Post by rlaggren » 10 years ago

More info? How is the system set up? Who did it, when? How has it been started in the past?

Generic free advice: My first thought is to crib from other 24v systems out there. Look around, see what the military or government does with similar powered vehicles (that's the most likely place I can think of to find 24v and up).

Else you can try wiring up a dedicated 12v system for the plugs, assuming you get 24v from two or more batteries.

Somebody had to go to some trouble to set up a 24v system so chances are they already figured this out. AFAIK these systems are rare but not unknown - this in a radio truck? Anyway, seems like all the standard engine control stuff is 99% 12v (leastwise in the USA) so the designer may already be providing 12v to run the controls - else they set themselves up for constant grief when doing field service.

Rufus
82 Maxima wagon

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