* CLUTCH REPLACEMENT & REAR SEAL TIPS *

Dealing with all subsystems specific to the diesel powered Datsun-Nissan 720 pickup trucks.

Moderators:plenzen, Nissan_Ranger

EvergreenSD
Posts:70
Joined:14 years ago
Location:Eugene, OR
* CLUTCH REPLACEMENT & REAR SEAL TIPS *

#1

Post by EvergreenSD » 14 years ago

Hi there, I have been lurking on this board for a few weeks but this is my first post. I would like to thank you for going to the effort to make this board possible and for keeping this information circulating. I have an '82 Datsun flatbed with an SD22 that I have had for a couple months.
One of the problems that I have been working on is that it gets difficult to shift into 1st or reverse after I have been driving for awhile. I rebuilt the master cylinder, bypassed the clutch damper, and replaced the slave cylinder but the problem persists. I also lengthened the pushrod on the clutch pedal. I must say that there was a tangible improvement in shifting after I bypassed the damper and the problem occurs much less often but it always returns eventually. I don't feel great about having to jam it into first when the light turns green and it's being stubborn.
Needless to say I think the shifting problem is related to the clutch not releasing all the way. It also makes a warbling sound when I push in the clutch to shift. So my thinking is that the release bearing or pressure plate is worn so I am planning to replace the clutch set. Any advice on parts or sources? I am looking at the AC delco parts through Rockauto. Is there another brand you would recommend. I want to do the job right and have it last but I don't have a ton of money available either. Also the boot that covers the throwout lever and fits into the 'bellhousing' is completely dissintegrated; where might I find a new one?
Once again, thank you for making this resource available. I look forward to any and all input on this matter. I really love this rattly old truck, I just need to get it sorted out so I can start to trust it. Sorry for rambling,

Brian

User avatar
Zoltan
Posts:136
Joined:14 years ago
Location:Honolulu, HI

A clutch related question

#2

Post by Zoltan » 14 years ago

The clutch was just recently replaced on my truck by a mechanic. Is it normal that I have to floor the clutch pedal in order to be able to shif in reverse? If the pedal is just an inch from its maximum travel then I have hard time shifting (eg grinding noise). I'd love to adjust it so I don't have push the pedal all the way in, but I don't know if I can. I didn't see anything pertaining to this in the manual.
- Zoltan -
________________________________
'82 Datsun 720 SD22 California model
'86 Ford Escort 2.0L Diesel

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#3

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

Welcome to our Sandbox!

Believe me, that's not rambling . . . read some of my posts, they go on forever, I'm sure I put people to sleep!

What you describe could be worn splines on either the input shaft to the trans or the clutch disc. If you had problems both cold & hot (ie all the time), it could be that part of the disc has disintegrated, which isn't all that uncommon, but as the symptom comes and goes, and you've already handled the hydraulic end of things, you're pretty much left with the clutch disc not moving on the shaft, or broken springs. Either of which mean pulling the trans, which is more difficult than usual because Nissan welded in the rear crossmember.

Be sure to use an appropriate lubricant on those splines on reassembly, or rust will form and you'll be back to where you started within a year. I use high-temp grease (a very thin layer). Others use silicone grease or moly grease or even graphite.

Due to the noise you describe, be certain that you have read about the weak input shaft bearing issue. If you have to replace it, now's the time to round up the gasket & brg in advance. It's supposedly possible to R&R the brg without splitting the case, but I couldn't.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

EvergreenSD
Posts:70
Joined:14 years ago
Location:Eugene, OR

#4

Post by EvergreenSD » 14 years ago

Thanks for the info. That makes sense about the clutch not sliding freely on the splines. Clutches are something that start to get really mystifying to me if I don't think about them for awhile, then if I squint at some diagrams for awhile it starts to make sense again. Your explanation makes sense to me. Do you have any input about clutch brands? Will AC Delco be fine? I have never been sure how to pick quality aftermarket parts. Napa's website in particular drives me crazy because they have the same products at different price levels but no way to identify the brand or explanation of why one is better. Am I really supposed to pay twice as much and just hope the part is better than their cheap one?
The sound I've noticed happens as I push the clutch in to shift after I am already moving. It is kind of a warbling or chattering and I think it's coming from the clutch itself. Maybe it's even normal and just sounds louder than it should because that boot is missing from the 'bellhousing'. Do you know where I could get this boot BTW? Is this stuff still available from Nissan? I know I should have checked already but I have this natural instinct to avoid the dealers because they have a way of making things expensive real quick.
I'm not sure what to think about the bearing issue. I want to be thorough but I don't want to have mission creep to the point that it's too much to tackle. Is the input bearing accessible from inside the clutch housing without splitting the cases? I'm guessing the input seal should be replaced too if I do this. I do have the experience of removing and disassembling the tranny from a Mazda B2200 diesel that grenaded due to bearing failure but I didn't have to get that one put back together so there was less pressure there. Thanks for all the help.

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#5

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

EvergreenSD wrote:Do you have any input about clutch brands?
Not really. Everybody & their brother is in the clutch business these days. I put an ARI clutch in one of mine, on a surfaced flywheel, and I'm not happy with it. I get some juddering, which shouldn't be. Runout on the flywheel was perfect.
Napa's website in particular drives me crazy because they have the same products at different price levels but no way to identify the brand or explanation of why one is better. Am I really supposed to pay twice as much and just hope the part is better than their cheap one?
NAPA is just a reboxer of other mfgr's parts. They sell Beck-Arnley too (part numbers with the "BA" prefix") as well as Raybestos and other stuff. ARI is one of their lines too. Stay away from any NAPA part number that begins with a "2".
The sound I've noticed happens as I push the clutch in to shift after I am already moving. It is kind of a warbling or chattering and I think it's coming from the clutch itself.
Whatever it is, it's not normal.
Do you know where I could get this boot BTW? Is this stuff still available from Nissan? I know I should have checked already but I have this natural instinct to avoid the dealers because they have a way of making things expensive real quick.
Nissan parts are not terribly expensive from the dealer. The tricky part is getting a parts person who's willing to look. I worked at a repair facility and had a line in with a Nissan dealer, who told me that the LD28 engine torque damper was NLA, and I believed him. Two years later, I just ordered one from Pinnacle Nissan online, and it's sitting here to my right, brand-spankin'-new. IOW, either he didn't know how to do his job, or didn't feel like looking up "old" parts.

Now that I have an 810 Parts Catalog (covers the Gen1 Maxima through '84), I have access to my own Nissan part nos., and can look them up myself.

What I'm getting at is that the clutch fork boot is likely still available, likely pretty cheap, but may involve calling more than one dealer, and if you can get one of them to actually give you the part number, you can order it online yourself.

The balance of your Qs I addressed over here.
Last edited by asavage 14 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

User avatar
philip
Posts:1494
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Southern California, USA

Re: Clutch replacement tips?

#6

Post by philip » 14 years ago

EvergreenSD wrote:SNIP I don't feel great about having to jam it into first when the light turns green and it's being stubborn.
In the meantime, try this when the old girl resists you. You have floored the clutch pedal ... but the trans just doesn't want to ingage any gear. Release the clutch. Now floor the clutch pedal again and this time, give the throttle a blip. Now try engaging a gear. If this works for you then my guess is the friction disc is not as free to move on the input shaft as it would like to be.
SNIP It also makes a warbling sound when I push in the clutch to shift. So my thinking is that the release bearing or pressure plate is worn so I am planning to replace the clutch set. SNIP Brian


Any noises associated with flooring the clutch pedal will be throw-out bearing and/or pilot bearing (speed differential between crankshaft and input shaft). Disengaging the clutch will stop the input shaft rotation, barring pilot bearing drag or seizure.
Last edited by philip 13 years ago, edited 4 times in total.
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

Re: Clutch replacement tips?

#7

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

philip wrote:Any noises associated with flooring the clutch pedal will be throw-out bearing. Disengaging the clutch will stop the input shaft rotation
Not if it occurs when he's shifting and the truck is moving. Actually, even if the truck is stopped, disengaging the clutch doesn't immediately cause the trans' input shaft to stop, it takes a while.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

Re: A clutch related question

#8

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

Zoltan wrote:The clutch was just recently replaced on my truck by a mechanic. Is it normal that I have to floor the clutch pedal in order to be able to shif in reverse?
No. However, unless you are a patient sort, if you first shift to a forward gear, *then* shift to reverse, you can eliminate all gear grinding, all other things being in good condition.

Shifting to a forward gear (with the truck not moving) uses the synchronizer of that gear to stop shaft rotation. Reverse on the FS5W71 does not have a synchronizer (some other manual transmissions do have a synchro on reverse, notably later Mazda PUs).
If the pedal is just an inch from its maximum travel then I have hard time shifting (eg grinding noise). I'd love to adjust it so I don't have push the pedal all the way in, but I don't know if I can. I didn't see anything pertaining to this in the manual.
One easy thing to check and fix is the clutch master cylinder pushrod play.

Kneeling outside the truck, use your HAND to gently apply pressure to the clutch pedal. It should move very freely only about 1/8", then suddenly become much harder to move. That 1/8" is the amount of pedal movement before the clutch master cylinder pushrod actually pushes on the piston -- the piston of the master cylinder, not the slave cylinder.

Adjust the free play to under 1/4" pedal movement at the place where you put your foot. To adjust, you loosen a 12mm wrench size nut on the pushrod where it connects to the pedal's clevis. Two wrenches are all that are required.

I usually see this problem when somebody replaces the clutch master cylinder and doesn't adjust it.

Don't succumb to the temptation to adjust all play from it; that can cause the clutch TO brg to ride on the clutch, wearing it prematurely. Remember, as the clutch material wears, the free play at the slave cylinder end is reduced, and you have to have the vent port in the master cylinder uncovered to allow the slave to auto-adjust for this.

Take a look.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

User avatar
philip
Posts:1494
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Southern California, USA

Re: Clutch replacement tips?

#9

Post by philip » 14 years ago

asavage wrote:
philip wrote:Any noises associated with flooring the clutch pedal will be throw-out bearing and/or pilot bearing (speed differential between crankshaft and input shaft). Disengaging the clutch will stop the input shaft rotation, barring pilot bearing drag or seizure.
Not if it occurs when he's shifting and the truck is moving. Actually, even if the truck is stopped, disengaging the clutch doesn't immediately cause the trans' input shaft to stop, it takes a while.
With any stick shift and with the vehicle in motion, simply depressing the clutch does not allow the input shaft to stop turning because a gear is still engaged. One must select NEUTRAL for the input shaft to coast to a stop while the clutch is disengaged. This brief time is determined by the disengagement RPM, gearbox oil viscosity, and any residual drag caused by the friction disc skating on the flywheel surface. :wink:
Last edited by philip 13 years ago, edited 3 times in total.
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

User avatar
ecomike
Posts:242
Joined:14 years ago
Location:Houston Tx

#10

Post by ecomike » 14 years ago

I have a 1983 (according to Philip) SD22 with a FS5W71B (based on the guts I found during the rebuild), 5 speed manual tranny.

This is where I bought all my transmission parts online. I started out with the MRK100600 rebuild kit at $143.93. I ended up replacing everything except the 3rd and 4th gear, the case, and the reverse idler gear shaft. I was plenty surprized that these guys could supply every single part I needed. The replacement shafts (Main shaft and input shaft) and gears 1,2,,5 and the pair of reverse gears I bought from them were used, but in good enough, actually excellant shape, to be reusable, and the prices seemed reasonable too. They also have excellant telephone help staff. They are in Lost Wages, Nevada.

http://www.drivetrain.com/nissian4_5sprwd.html

This is where I bought the replacement clutch kit:

http://www.coximport.com/store/DK-06004

Both are available online.
Last edited by ecomike 14 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
Regards,

Mike

1985 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer, 2WD, retrofitted with SD-22 & 5 spd manual trans, a 4X4 Gas Wagoneer ltd. (XJ) Jeep, 4.0 L w/ AW4 auto, and now 2 spare 2wd Jeeps, 87 & 89.

User avatar
ecomike
Posts:242
Joined:14 years ago
Location:Houston Tx

#11

Post by ecomike » 14 years ago

I guess I should also mention that I did not and have not had any problems with the vendors or the parts they supplied, i.e. the clutch kit and the transmission parts.

We did have a little trouble getting the right input shaft as there seem to be some slight variations in them (length and gear teeth counts) in the B model that are not documented. Also we had to count gear teeth on some of the gears I bought as there is some variation there as well in the 5 speed manual, B model.
Regards,

Mike

1985 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer, 2WD, retrofitted with SD-22 & 5 spd manual trans, a 4X4 Gas Wagoneer ltd. (XJ) Jeep, 4.0 L w/ AW4 auto, and now 2 spare 2wd Jeeps, 87 & 89.

User avatar
asavage
Site Admin
Posts:5351
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Duvall, Wash.
Contact:

#12

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

While I'm glad to hear that they have good support staff, I'm always leery of a website where they can't spell the marque's name correctly.

I, too, found gear tooth count variations when I went looking for a replacement reverse gear. Reverse gear is often bad on these -- maybe Nissan driver's just like to shift hard/fast to reverse?
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

EvergreenSD
Posts:70
Joined:14 years ago
Location:Eugene, OR

#13

Post by EvergreenSD » 14 years ago

Thanks so much for all the feedback. I feel much better informed now and will have to rely less on my (at times) shaky judgment and limited experience. I will keep you posted as things develop. Now if I only had more free time . . . .

EvergreenSD
Posts:70
Joined:14 years ago
Location:Eugene, OR

#14

Post by EvergreenSD » 14 years ago

Just an update: I was able to order the clutch boot for $10 from the dealership. The parts guy was even helpful once I made it past the unbelievable legion of sleazy salesmen. Also, while the old boot was off, I sprayed down the input shaft with PB Blaster several times. This has made a big difference as I think it helped clean off the grime and rust that probably built up on the shaft while the old boot was in tatters (for who knows how long). Time will tell if this improvement will hold out and forestall a clutch replacement like I am hoping. The strange thing is that, so far, the only instances of the old problem of the clutch not releasing have come after I have been backing up slowly. Any theories on why reverse would act different than the forward gears? Thanks for all the great info, I have learned a ton already.

User avatar
philip
Posts:1494
Joined:15 years ago
Location:Southern California, USA

#15

Post by philip » 14 years ago

ecomike wrote: SNIP This is where I bought all my transmission parts online. They are in Lost Wages, Nevada.

http://www.drivetrain.com/nissian4_5sprwd.html

This is where I bought the replacement clutch kit:

http://www.coximport.com/store/DK-06004

Both are available online.
Interesting (to me) is CoxImport's preferred gearbox lubricant. ROYAL PURPLE.

I installed Royal Purple 85w-140 in May and found it -stayed- just a little too thick. So after about 4 weeks, I replaced it with their lighter weight 75w-90. Noticably better shifting and no perceptable increase in gear chatter at idle with the clutch released. It's expensive stuff ($11 per qt) but you only need two quarts.
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests