SD2x transmission issues: FS5W71x series of 5-spds
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- Knucklehead
- Posts: 148
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Location: Phoenix
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- Posts: 21
- Joined: 17 years ago
- Location: kentucky
used or used????
hey guys.
i'm pulling my trans off today and wanted your advice. when i drained it yesterday there were two gear teeth and a lot of fuzz on the plug.
i had ideas of perhaps trying to rebuild the thing myself (would be my first time), but i can get a "good" used one locally for $350. from what i can tell looking at prices, if i have to swap out a gear or two, i'm going to be spending that much anyway especially since i don't have a hydraulic press.
i bought this truck a couple weeks ago cause it was in perfect shape except for the trans. so i was expecting the work, but it sounds like i might be in over my head rebuilding whereas i know i can bolt another tranny back in.
advice?
i'm pulling my trans off today and wanted your advice. when i drained it yesterday there were two gear teeth and a lot of fuzz on the plug.
i had ideas of perhaps trying to rebuild the thing myself (would be my first time), but i can get a "good" used one locally for $350. from what i can tell looking at prices, if i have to swap out a gear or two, i'm going to be spending that much anyway especially since i don't have a hydraulic press.
i bought this truck a couple weeks ago cause it was in perfect shape except for the trans. so i was expecting the work, but it sounds like i might be in over my head rebuilding whereas i know i can bolt another tranny back in.
advice?
1985 720 kc 4x4 z24
1981 720 kc 2wd sd22
1981 720 kc 2wd sd22
- philip
- Deceased
- Posts: 1494
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Location: Southern California, USA
Re: used or used????
Go with what you know. Just be sure the replacement gearbox is solid as you don't want to perform the R&R twice.abumariah wrote:... it sounds like i might be in over my head rebuilding whereas i know i can bolt another tranny back in.
advice?
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .
1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22
"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .
1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22
"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
-
- Posts: 204
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Location: Redmond, WA
Re: used or used????
Not to be a doubting Thomas, but how do you know that the "good" one really is? There's no way that you're going to be able to really know unless you tear into it and inspect bearing races, synchros, etc. Or until after driving it. Even if the gears and synchros look good, you could have a worn-out input shaft bearing which you'll have to really look close at to tell.abumariah wrote:hey guys.
. . . but i can get a "good" used one locally for $350. from what i can tell looking at prices, if i have to swap out a gear or two, i'm going to be spending that much anyway especially since i don't have a hydraulic press. . .
Buying used transmissions (auto or manual) is a total crapshoot IMO. It's basically legalized gambling! I can go out to the Pull-a-Part and get a transmission for just over $50 (I have, several times) spend several hours installing it, and then (roll the dice, say my prayers, boil chicken's feet, etc) take it on a test drive to see if I've won or lost.
$350 is a pretty high minimum bid, IMO unless you've got an ace up your sleeve!
1982 Datsun 720 King Cab, SD22, 86K miles (sold)
1981 Rabbit LS 4-door, 1.6D, 130K miles (sold)
1996 Passat TDI 4-door sedan, 197K miles
1981 Rabbit LS 4-door, 1.6D, 130K miles (sold)
1996 Passat TDI 4-door sedan, 197K miles
- Knucklehead
- Posts: 148
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Location: Phoenix
If you take the trans to a shop it could cost you up to a grand. Some parts can be expensive, so that's not a ridiculous price if you trust them. I'm slow and it took me maybe 30 hours in disassembly, discovery, assessment, cleaning, ordering and picking up parts, and reassembly. It's a labor of love for me, and a release. If you hate the work, have a lot of demands on your time, and make a lot of money, send it out.
I would absolutely not bolt in a used tranny (unless you just don't give a damn, but then why would you be asking?) without opening it up and inspecting it. Too easy.
It's worthwhile to pull yours apart first and take stock. You have nothing to lose. When you're done you'll be qualified to answer your own question. Have a FSM, a good vice, a stiff pair of snap ring pliers and Harbor Freight has ITEM 1667-4VGA for $115. It's worth it.
I would absolutely not bolt in a used tranny (unless you just don't give a damn, but then why would you be asking?) without opening it up and inspecting it. Too easy.
It's worthwhile to pull yours apart first and take stock. You have nothing to lose. When you're done you'll be qualified to answer your own question. Have a FSM, a good vice, a stiff pair of snap ring pliers and Harbor Freight has ITEM 1667-4VGA for $115. It's worth it.
'82 standard cab 3 axle SD22 turbo
'89 int'l 9700 Cummins 444 (855 ci)
'29 HD FD export model
'89 int'l 9700 Cummins 444 (855 ci)
'29 HD FD export model
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 17 years ago
- Location: kentucky
hmmfph.
opened up the tranny case today. the od gear and counter, and the reverse gear and counter are all DESTROYED.
wanted you guys' opinions...it looks like the used tranny is going to cost less than the new parts and i could swap out the gears from the other trans...i guess i'm wondering if its normal for these two (od and reverse) to wear out because if it is i probably shouldn't take a chance on the used tranny.
opinions?
thanks guys.
oh yeah...the bearings in my tranny are top notch still. so i don't have to worry about those. i don't think.
wanted you guys' opinions...it looks like the used tranny is going to cost less than the new parts and i could swap out the gears from the other trans...i guess i'm wondering if its normal for these two (od and reverse) to wear out because if it is i probably shouldn't take a chance on the used tranny.
opinions?
thanks guys.
oh yeah...the bearings in my tranny are top notch still. so i don't have to worry about those. i don't think.
1985 720 kc 4x4 z24
1981 720 kc 2wd sd22
1981 720 kc 2wd sd22
- asavage
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5433
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- Location: Oak Harbor, Wash.
- Contact:
Re: hmmfph.
Reverse is often beat up. There are at least four different tooth counts for that gear, so count yours if possible.abumariah wrote:opened up the tranny case today. the od gear and counter, and the reverse gear and counter are all DESTROYED.
Have you tried the Windoze FS5W71 bearing life calculator yet?oh yeah...the bearings in my tranny are top notch still. so i don't have to worry about those. i don't think.
Replace at least the two forward ones. They're the trouble ones.
Last edited by asavage 17 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
Al S.
1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
Al S.
1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
- philip
- Deceased
- Posts: 1494
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Location: Southern California, USA
Re: hmmfph.
That's what happens you let those gear oil leaks (like the speedo drive, tailshaft, & shifter boot) go unrepaired. Then ... the neglectful party puts some oil in and dumps the truck.abumariah wrote:opened up the tranny case today. the od gear and counter, and the reverse gear and counter are all DESTROYED. SNIP
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .
1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22
"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .
1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22
"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 17 years ago
- Location: kentucky
adapter plate
do you guys put the adapter plate directly in the vise when you're pulling bearings or do you have something similar to the nissan fsm tool or do you even use a vise at all?
1985 720 kc 4x4 z24
1981 720 kc 2wd sd22
1981 720 kc 2wd sd22
- asavage
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5433
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Location: Oak Harbor, Wash.
- Contact:
On one of the transmissions, I removed the shaft snap rings and when the gearset came out of the case, the brg remained in the case. Pic is here.
The other one, I think I used a std brg puller plate, that has knife edges and is split (two-piece) and clamps behind the brg, then used a jaw puller on that.
I'll be doing this job again this week (on the '82 SD trans going into the '86). The trans works OK, but I've got it out, it's getting new front brgs.
The other one, I think I used a std brg puller plate, that has knife edges and is split (two-piece) and clamps behind the brg, then used a jaw puller on that.
I'll be doing this job again this week (on the '82 SD trans going into the '86). The trans works OK, but I've got it out, it's getting new front brgs.
Regards,
Al S.
1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
Al S.
1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
-
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
I overhauled my transmission without a vice. The tool that caused me the most effort in finding was a strong pair of snap ring pliers. Lacking a press to squeeze things back together I made a hand press out of 1/2" threaded rod and angle iron.
Tranny was taken apart because of noise in the indirect gears which indicates worn bearings. Then too there was some fuzz on the magnetic drain plug. The bearings showed some wear but not so much that they were in danger of failure. But I replaced them all anyway. Gears were fine. For some reason I had to pull a gear to replace a bearing, used a jaw puller carelessly and chipped the gear. Had to replace it and the gear it meshed with. That hurt. I did not replace the synchronizers. The speedometer cable seal leaks oil into the cable but did not replace it. The oil is a cosmetic problem only as it leaks out of the speedometer onto the floor but it does not solidify like the original grease did in cold weather and break the speedometer cable.
I hate getting dirty and oily. I hate crawling under vehicles and have dirt rain down on me. But doing my own work, taking the time to do the job right and documenting it is the only way to ensure my vehicle won't break down in the next few years. I've been burned by too many sloppy mechanics in the past and have had to have the work redone at considerable expense.
Douglas
Tranny was taken apart because of noise in the indirect gears which indicates worn bearings. Then too there was some fuzz on the magnetic drain plug. The bearings showed some wear but not so much that they were in danger of failure. But I replaced them all anyway. Gears were fine. For some reason I had to pull a gear to replace a bearing, used a jaw puller carelessly and chipped the gear. Had to replace it and the gear it meshed with. That hurt. I did not replace the synchronizers. The speedometer cable seal leaks oil into the cable but did not replace it. The oil is a cosmetic problem only as it leaks out of the speedometer onto the floor but it does not solidify like the original grease did in cold weather and break the speedometer cable.
I hate getting dirty and oily. I hate crawling under vehicles and have dirt rain down on me. But doing my own work, taking the time to do the job right and documenting it is the only way to ensure my vehicle won't break down in the next few years. I've been burned by too many sloppy mechanics in the past and have had to have the work redone at considerable expense.
Douglas
- asavage
- Site Admin
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- Joined: 18 years ago
- Location: Oak Harbor, Wash.
- Contact:
Yeah, Verily, Brother!ffdjm wrote:I hate getting dirty and oily. I hate crawling under vehicles and have dirt rain down on me. But doing my own work, taking the time to do the job right and documenting it is the only way to ensure my vehicle won't break down in the next few years. I've been burned by too many sloppy mechanics in the past and have had to have the work redone at considerable expense.
Almost every time I pay someone to work on one of my vehicles, I get screwed.
Regards,
Al S.
1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
Al S.
1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
- philip
- Deceased
- Posts: 1494
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Location: Southern California, USA
Sex for services rendered?asavage wrote:Yeah, Verily, Brother!
Almost every time I pay someone to work on one of my vehicles, I get screwed.
"Sir, I'd like to get this BMW for my wife"
"Sorry ... our sales department does not take wives in trade."
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .
1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22
"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .
1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22
"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"
- Knucklehead
- Posts: 148
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Location: Phoenix
And double amen. I am sooo with you brother.I hate getting dirty and oily. I hate crawling under vehicles and have dirt rain down on me.
How can you LIVE without a vice?I overhauled my transmission without a vice.
'82 standard cab 3 axle SD22 turbo
'89 int'l 9700 Cummins 444 (855 ci)
'29 HD FD export model
'89 int'l 9700 Cummins 444 (855 ci)
'29 HD FD export model
- Knucklehead
- Posts: 148
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Location: Phoenix
And double amen. I am sooo with you brother.I hate getting dirty and oily. I hate crawling under vehicles and have dirt rain down on me.
How can you LIVE without a vice? I can't fix dinner without one.I overhauled my transmission without a vice.
I did, with soft jaws.do you guys put the adapter plate directly in the vise
That is from too quick and harsh forcing reverse after not quite stopping.reverse gear and counter are all DESTROYED.
Notwithstanding Al's experiences with the front bearings, most of the experiences I have read about have to do with the OD gears, usually something to do with the mainshaft nut backing off or loosening despite being staked AND the thrust washer being pinned. There are some strange forces going on back there so guesstimate on the extra side when torquing that nut down.the od gear and counter
I can't fault that logic, but even if those two are only bad in 20% of the transmissions you are still taking a chance. Ya know, a JY purchase shouldn't be about chance. They should let you pop the tail housing off to take a look (easy enough to do right there) after you buy it to confirm their claim of a good trans (or some such warranty). Seems only fair.it looks like the used tranny is going to cost less than the new parts and i could swap out the gears from the other trans...i guess i'm wondering if its normal for these two (od and reverse) to wear out because if it is i probably shouldn't take a chance on the used tranny.
Hard to believe the rear bearings are top notch after all the destruction going on back there. Lotta metal been floating around in there too. Bearings are really cheap compared to gears. I thought mine were good too til I felt new ones. Don't forget to inspect the needle bearings the OD main gear run on. And if you haven't taken the main nut off yet, be sure to check the clearances. It'll tell you a lot about what was going on last.the bearings in my tranny are top notch still.
'82 standard cab 3 axle SD22 turbo
'89 int'l 9700 Cummins 444 (855 ci)
'29 HD FD export model
'89 int'l 9700 Cummins 444 (855 ci)
'29 HD FD export model
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