My car died! Not sure whats up......

Discuss (and cuss) the Nissan LD-series OHC Six diesel engine, popularly available in the US in 1981-83 Datsun/Nissan Maxima Sedans & Wagons.

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atalamark
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My car died! Not sure whats up......

#1

Post by atalamark »

Folks-

I posted earlier about an '82 (originally I thought '83, I was wrong) Maxima wagon I bought.

Today I topped off the engine with B99 (the tank was 3/4 full of regualar
diesel.....I added the biodiesel for its cleaning properities), and at fillup I also added a few ounces (per the directions on the bottle) of Lucas diesel injector cleaner to the tank. The idea being get the injectors cleaned out etc. I've used the Lucas treatment on my Mercedes 240D for years, its been great...

Anyway, the car has been running great, and as soon as I top off with the B99 and the treatment, I start the car, pull out of the station, and a block away the car stalls. Starts once for a few seconds and then......turning over but no start.

So my first thought is: the filter is clogged. Here's where it gets weird, because I bought the stock filter at NAPA , and it turns out that the PO has been using NAPA 3393 which doesn't have the water seperation mechanism and is usually used for tractors etc. But it has the same threads etc.......so I figure, well, he's had the car running for thousands of miles on this filter (I have his reciepts) so I walked to NAPA, exchanged the stock filter for a new 3393, and figured this should be easy, change the filter and away I go.

But no. I put the new filter in, loosened the air vent screw, and pumped away on the little pump atop the filter housing. Nothing. No fuel came out. I took the air screw all the way out and felt air coming out when I pumped the pump, so it appears to work. What the heck? I had to get the car towed after numerous folks at the local garage tried a couple different remedies, one of which was to hook up an air house to the fuel tank, which did have the effect of making fuel come out of the air vent on the housing....

This seems really simple. But I don't have a hand pump to prime the IP with (which is what I read someone else did), and also, what s up with the other fuel filter? Is it okay to use?

Any help would be great. I apologize for the long windedness of this but I figured it would help to know the details.

thanks

mark kaylor
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asavage
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Re: My car died! Not sure whats up......

#2

Post by asavage »

atalamark wrote:Anyway, the car has been running great, and as soon as I top off with the B99 and the treatment, I start the car, pull out of the station, and a block away the car stalls. Starts once for a few seconds and then......turning over but no start.

But no. I put the new filter in, loosened the air vent screw, and pumped away on the little pump atop the filter housing. Nothing. No fuel came out. I took the air screw all the way out and felt air coming out when I pumped the pump, so it appears to work. What the heck? I had to get the car towed after numerous folks at the local garage tried a couple different remedies, one of which was to hook up an air house to the fuel tank, which did have the effect of making fuel come out of the air vent on the housing....

This seems really simple. But I don't have a hand pump to prime the IP with (which is what I read someone else did), and also, what s up with the other fuel filter? Is it okay to use?

Any help would be great. I apologize for the long windedness of this but I figured it would help to know the details.
[sigh]
If you had the FSM, you would know the answer.

My best guess is that the fuel filter did plug. However, it's also possible that you have a bad batch of fuel. I've experienced both of these things.

When you pull air to the IP, you have to bleed the IP. You cannot bleed only the filter. The FSM explains this, and saves a lot of wear and tear on your expensive starter and fragile ring gear.

I don't want you to think that I'm beating you up about this, but you cannot apply generic diagnostics to this engine (nor to the 720 diesel). You must have the FSM to keep this beast up to snuff. You will waste vast amounts of time trying to make do without.

The correct fuel filter -- the only correct fuel filter, is the OEM 16405-W2500, Wix equivalent is 33476 (NAPA 3476, $11)
Wix link
NAPA link
Image

This filter fits Komatsu & Nissan forklifts and the Maxima LD28, that's it, so it's not in stock anywhere, but it's the only correct filter for this application, regardless of what screws on. (Would you believe that you can screw on a Ford oil filter? It'll wipe out the IP, but the filter wil "fit"!)

Let me see if I can find the last time this came up on this board . . . yup, Terry ran into the same problem. The correct line must be disconnected to purge the IP of air, you will crank a very long time otherwise. The 720's inline IP has IP bleed screws, but not the VE.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
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asavage
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#3

Post by asavage »

Also, two members have had failed priming pumps, that would not pull fuel. The priming pump is designed to bleed the filter easily, not the IP. But there is a procedure to bleed the IP using the priming pump . . . you must remove the return line from the IP. Don't ask me why, but it's been found to be true.

Before someone brings it up again: I don't like add-on electric pumps for this application. Others disagree. Use the Search feature to learn more. Let's not re-hash it in this thread.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
atalamark
Posts: 38
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: portland,or

filter

#4

Post by atalamark »

Well the NAPA 3476 is the filter I had them order, and the one I originally bought. However I don't see the proper threaded sensor attatchment the go in the bottom of it......so what could I do? And as far as the 3393, is it possible it could damge the engine by using it?

I eagerly await the FSM......after doing exhaustive searching on this site I now know that there is another filter I knew nothing about.....I'm gonna get a new little filter as well (the one only available through Nissan, 16401-36w01).

So basically I pull the hose off the IP return and pump away? I guess I'll just wait for the manual......

Oh and as far as bad fuel, I've been buying B99 for my Mercedes 240D for 3 years now from the same place and never had a problem, but who knows?

thanks
Mark e kaylor
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asavage
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Re: filter

#5

Post by asavage »

atalamark wrote:Well the NAPA 3476 is the filter I had them order, and the one I originally bought. However I don't see the proper threaded sensor attatchment the go in the bottom of it . . .
You can see the sensor hole in the picture above. That pic is from Wix's website. This pic is from NAPA's website for the 3476, and it too shows the sensor hole:

Image
And as far as the 3393, is it possible it could damge the engine by using it?
According to Wix, the 3393 has a nominal micron rating the same as the correct filter. I think it's probably OK -- though without the water-in-fuel sensor, of course, which I think is vital: I've gotten fuel with coalesced water in it.
. . . after doing exhaustive searching on this site I now know that there is another filter I knew nothing about.....I'm gonna get a new little filter as well (the one only available through Nissan, 16401-36w01).
Nope, that's the Primary filter for the '82-'86 720 pickups with SD engine. The 810/910/Maxima with LD does not have or use that primary filter. And that filter is very coarse.
So basically I pull the hose off the IP return and pump away? I guess I'll just wait for the manual......
Yes. In the 1982 Maxima FSM, pgs. MA-26/7, it says (paraphrasing + expanding):
  • Loosen priming pump vent screw
  • Pump primer until fuel exits vent without bubbles
  • Tighten vent screw
  • Disconnect return hose [from IP] (and use a catch pan: sure!)
  • Pump primer until fuel flows from return line (with no air bubbles)
  • Reconnect hose
That's pretty much it. If the priming pump is working, it's not difficult, once you know how.
Oh and as far as bad fuel, I've been buying B99 for my Mercedes 240D for 3 years now from the same place and never had a problem, but who knows?
I was buying B99 regularly, then we got a bad batch. A really bad batch, Mar-2006.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
atalamark
Posts: 38
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: portland,or

primary filter

#6

Post by atalamark »

I must have misread about the primary filter....so there is none...?

And the stock fuel filter , the 3476 from NAPA, did have the fixture at the bottom but what I meant was I don't have anything around my fuel filter housing to thread in the bottom of that......so it would just be an open hole.....thats why I couldn't use it......of course, maybe its tucked under somewhere, when it stops raining one of these days I'll see if I can find it...

until then I'm gonna try the priming procedure as outlined! We'll see what happens

Mark E Kaylor
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asavage
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#7

Post by asavage »

The Maxima diesel does not have a Primary filter. But read this post.

You are missing the Water-in-Fuel sensor. It looks like a largish plastic wing nut with a 6" blue wire attached and a male bullet connector.

(click on image for larger)
Image Image

It's Nissan part No. is 16412-V0700, about $13.

The priming pump/filter head assy. is 16401-W1700, $98.
Last edited by asavage 14 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
atalamark
Posts: 38
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: portland,or

vacuum pump

#8

Post by atalamark »

Well NAPA has a little brake bleeder tool for $15 , would this work for priming the fuel system? Otherwise I'm looking at $50 minimum for Mityvac's most basic vacuum pump........money is an issue here. Any suggestions?

thanks!

mark e kaylor
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asavage
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#9

Post by asavage »

You can *try* the cheap brake bleeder. It will probably work -- once. It's a lot cheaper than a Mity-Vac. The BD will probably eat it shortly, but it may work long enough to get you running again.

I don't have a spare priming pump/filter head, or I'd offer one to you.
atalamark
Posts: 38
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: portland,or

procedure

#10

Post by atalamark »

So do I need to pull the line out of the filter housing and prime the filter first, or can I just pull the IP return line and pull fuel through the whole works?

I just thought about something the previous owner told me about the fuel filter, he said its the only time the car ever died, the filter clogged and he put a new one on and he mentioned the priming pump and thats how he primed the system......why would it not work now?

Anyway I might just spring for a better vacuum pump just to have around . Might be worth the investment, eh? Especially if I need to prime the system every time I change the filter.......

And is it neccessary to add fuel to the filter when replacing it? I've read a few things about this. I did this.

thanks for all the help so far!

Mark E Kaylor
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asavage
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#11

Post by asavage »

You can (I would) pull vacuum on the IP's return line. Though now that I think about it, that probably won't work. No, if you do that, you may have to plug off the fitting that the return line goes to. I can't recall the hydraulic schematic right now.

No, don't pre-fill the fuel filter, that's a bad idea. For an oil filter, it's OK, but not for a diesel fuel filter (unless you have a ready supply of polished fuel -- ie known to contain less than 10 micron particulates).
atalamark
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Joined: 14 years ago
Location: portland,or

more

#12

Post by atalamark »

Well either way it should work......I mean if I hook up the vacuum to the line and don't get any fuel through then I will try to plug the port....

I did find however a post stating:

[If your priming pump doesn't work, use the Mity-Vac or equivalent on the IP's return line. Keep pulling until no bubbles appear. It will take a while. I do not think that pressurizing the tank will do the job, and you can very easily deform a fuel tank, with only 3-5 PSI, so my advice is to use the vac. pump.
]

so I guess I'll just give it a shot.

Mark
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asavage
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Re: more

#13

Post by asavage »

atalamark wrote:I did find however a post stating:

[If your priming pump doesn't work, use the Mity-Vac . . .
Yeah. That was me . . . responding to you . . . in Terry's thread . . . yesterday :lol:

[later]

OK, I've gone and stared at the system. Unlike the SDs, the Maxima does not recirculate the return line to the filter head, so pulling fuel from the IP via its return line will work OK.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
83_maxima
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Location: Denver

#14

Post by 83_maxima »

When I change diesel filters, I don't prime or pump anything.

I add Power Service additive to the new filter (fill it up) and screw it on. I don't know if it is filtered down to 10 microns, but it works.

I have done this several times, the most recent being the Maxima, and when I went to start it, it hiccuped once and smoothed out.
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asavage
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#15

Post by asavage »

It's not recommended to pre-fill the filter. You do not want anything larger than ~15 microns making it into the IP.

I am yanking a VE-style IP this weekend on a Toyota diesel PU due to lift pump failure. Same basic IP as our LD28s. Crap got into it and fried the pump vanes. $800 rebuild. Shipping it off Monday.

Keep your fuel clean.
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