Turbo acquired!
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- 240ZD
- Posts: 103
- Joined: 17 years ago
- Location: Longview, WA
Turbo acquired!
Well, of course turbo'ing one's LD28 is the only natural thing to do. And now, nearly two years after bolting one of these refined beasts into my little Z, I've acquired the perfect turbo system. Now I can finally make good on the myriad automotive threats I've dispensed to my gasoline-burning motorsports friends.
Here it is, a late '70s-ish system for use on the L28. It appears to be a Crown kit maybe, with RayJay turbo and wastegate, salvaged from a totaled '77 Datsun 280z racecar 10 years ago.
It is currently at the turbo shop, where the old turbo may have to be replaced by a modern Garrett unit with an internal wastegate, due to unavailability of parts.
According to TurboMaster Pius, of Bell Turbo in Corvallis, OR, the LD28 engine is "really well-made, a real solid engine," and that the turbo system I'm to use is "perfect, a real quality piece," and that "whoever made it [the turbo pipes] really knew what they were doing." Supposedly it was designed by the late Jim Cook, of California.
TurboMaster Pius says that the compression ratio and design of the LD28 (about 21:1?) would be perfect to run upwards of 10 psi without screwing anything up. I should note that he is a diesel turbo specialist and has built the turbos for some of the faster diesel drag trucks around.
Both I and Pius agree that the way this turbo system is designed - with the smoothly-flowing "J" pipe between turbo and manifold, will result, when used with the LD28 stock manifold, in way better flow characteristics than using the L28T stuff. Just a little "port-and-polishing" is needed for a nice fit.
Onward, through the fog!
Here it is, a late '70s-ish system for use on the L28. It appears to be a Crown kit maybe, with RayJay turbo and wastegate, salvaged from a totaled '77 Datsun 280z racecar 10 years ago.
It is currently at the turbo shop, where the old turbo may have to be replaced by a modern Garrett unit with an internal wastegate, due to unavailability of parts.
According to TurboMaster Pius, of Bell Turbo in Corvallis, OR, the LD28 engine is "really well-made, a real solid engine," and that the turbo system I'm to use is "perfect, a real quality piece," and that "whoever made it [the turbo pipes] really knew what they were doing." Supposedly it was designed by the late Jim Cook, of California.
TurboMaster Pius says that the compression ratio and design of the LD28 (about 21:1?) would be perfect to run upwards of 10 psi without screwing anything up. I should note that he is a diesel turbo specialist and has built the turbos for some of the faster diesel drag trucks around.
Both I and Pius agree that the way this turbo system is designed - with the smoothly-flowing "J" pipe between turbo and manifold, will result, when used with the LD28 stock manifold, in way better flow characteristics than using the L28T stuff. Just a little "port-and-polishing" is needed for a nice fit.
Onward, through the fog!
"Man, your engine is knocking really bad..."~
-
- Posts: 541
- Joined: 17 years ago
- Location: San Francisco
OK, so I'm an ignoramus here.
Is that "J" a bolt-on to the stock exhaust manifold?
If what I'm looking at is the exhaust plumbing (no intake) then it looks like that valve wastes the exhaust by by-passing the turbo and dumping into the down pipe... ?
Are the pipes steel tube or what?
And more. Very interesting.
Cheers, Rufus
Is that "J" a bolt-on to the stock exhaust manifold?
If what I'm looking at is the exhaust plumbing (no intake) then it looks like that valve wastes the exhaust by by-passing the turbo and dumping into the down pipe... ?
Are the pipes steel tube or what?
And more. Very interesting.
Cheers, Rufus
82 Maxima wagon
- 240ZD
- Posts: 103
- Joined: 17 years ago
- Location: Longview, WA
The "J" pipe bolts to the stock manifold of a gasser, so it will need the two exhaust and three bolt holes slightly enlarged to match with the diesel manifold, which is of the same dimensions but slightly bigger...i.e. the exhaust holes are 1/8" larger diameter on the LD.
It is of thick steel, and curved so as to mount the turbo nice and horizontal to a Nissan L-block! The wastegate vents the exhaust pressure around the turbo.
It is of thick steel, and curved so as to mount the turbo nice and horizontal to a Nissan L-block! The wastegate vents the exhaust pressure around the turbo.
"Man, your engine is knocking really bad..."~
-
- Posts: 541
- Joined: 17 years ago
- Location: San Francisco
Looks pretty perfect. Would it be possible to lay the pipes on the floor next to a couple of tape measures and shoot pics so it'd show the dimensions sort of? Then we could all dream of fabricating our own... <G>
That's a great find. I was wondering whether something like that would work/fit because it would just be so nice to not have to pull the engine apart and mod the manifolds. And to find one built for your car - great going.
Rufus
That's a great find. I was wondering whether something like that would work/fit because it would just be so nice to not have to pull the engine apart and mod the manifolds. And to find one built for your car - great going.
Rufus
82 Maxima wagon
- asavage
- Site Admin
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Rufus, the L28T parts from the 280ZX are the way to go for a cheap turbo. 240ZD's parts are better, but not cheap. He's having to mod the exhaust manifold too.
And where's the intercooler!?
And where's the intercooler!?
- 240ZD
- Posts: 103
- Joined: 17 years ago
- Location: Longview, WA
Yeah ya ya, I'll get an intercooler~ However, I'm not modding the manifold, just the little "J" pipe.
If you can find one of these style kits, they're usually pretty cheap, maybe a few hundred bucks. They were made for carb'd turbo Z applications that sometimes exploded from compressing atomized gas+air into the intake. So they got a bad reputation, but they're perfect for diesels!
Or so it would seem. The proof is in the piston cracks. I hope to get the thing in good working order and bolted up asap, and then comes the full report. No mod ever bolts up as easy as it's supposed to.
If you can find one of these style kits, they're usually pretty cheap, maybe a few hundred bucks. They were made for carb'd turbo Z applications that sometimes exploded from compressing atomized gas+air into the intake. So they got a bad reputation, but they're perfect for diesels!
Or so it would seem. The proof is in the piston cracks. I hope to get the thing in good working order and bolted up asap, and then comes the full report. No mod ever bolts up as easy as it's supposed to.
"Man, your engine is knocking really bad..."~
-
- Posts: 541
- Joined: 17 years ago
- Location: San Francisco
Hmm. I checked your link and that design may have a more direct exhaust path and thus slightly less restriction. But I thought I read somewhere here that the gasser exhaust manifold did not quite fit the diesel head and needed bolt holes "moved" a little and that there was some issues with sealing and cracking; don't recall if there was any info on matching the ports. It's true that the J-pipe would be quite expensive if subbed out - I would expect to fabricate the turbo parts myself if this project were to come in "under budget".
As an aside, I have found a "club" called TechShop at http://www.techshop.ws locally that provides various machine shop tools and space to members. The price is quite reasonable and I believe that there are franchises in a few other cities. Their tooling can be quite good, but is not totally consistent. Still, for large milling machines, lathes, welders, sheet metal machines, CNC and plasma cutters, it's a pretty good deal. If you're near one of their franchises and can use the tools you might check it out.
[/quote]The "J" pipe bolts to the stock manifold of a gasser, so it will need the two exhaust and three bolt holes slightly enlarged to match with the diesel manifold, which is of the same dimensions but slightly bigger...i.e. the exhaust holes are 1/8" larger diameter on the LD.
As an aside, I have found a "club" called TechShop at http://www.techshop.ws locally that provides various machine shop tools and space to members. The price is quite reasonable and I believe that there are franchises in a few other cities. Their tooling can be quite good, but is not totally consistent. Still, for large milling machines, lathes, welders, sheet metal machines, CNC and plasma cutters, it's a pretty good deal. If you're near one of their franchises and can use the tools you might check it out.
[/quote]The "J" pipe bolts to the stock manifold of a gasser, so it will need the two exhaust and three bolt holes slightly enlarged to match with the diesel manifold, which is of the same dimensions but slightly bigger...i.e. the exhaust holes are 1/8" larger diameter on the LD.
It sounded like the mods would be on the J-pipe flange to fit it to the (slightly) larger diesel exhaust flange. Seems like you would take a template off the exhaust manifold flange and then move/enlarge all the holes on the J-pipe a little and have a perfect fit w/out touching the car engine... Hopefully.
The OEM exhaust would probably need a new bend or two and and a flange to meet the turbo down pipe, but you can go back and tweak/fix exhaust pipe easier than engine work. I bet 240ZD plans on changing to a larger exhaust anyway.
Rufus
82 Maxima wagon
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- Posts: 69
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Location: Portland, OR
i've heard the classic saab 900 turbo had an intercooler with ins and outs on the same side which would help with plumbing. or if you want to search overseas -after they stopped importing the volvo 7xx turbo diesel they continued in europe and included an intercooler after '85.
and the volvo 7xx series were inported with vw inline six turbo diesel and the ip is very similar and shares many parts so maybe some of the overfueling bits would transfer. the boys down at DFIS down the way from jubitz truck stop would know for sure.
if you feel like sharing i'd love to see your work and geek out on diesels. you can see my volvo td with performance goodies and i can introduce you to other diesel geeks in the area.
and the volvo 7xx series were inported with vw inline six turbo diesel and the ip is very similar and shares many parts so maybe some of the overfueling bits would transfer. the boys down at DFIS down the way from jubitz truck stop would know for sure.
if you feel like sharing i'd love to see your work and geek out on diesels. you can see my volvo td with performance goodies and i can introduce you to other diesel geeks in the area.
-Noah
i deliver blends of biodiesel -no more!.
82 datsun 720 KC w/sd22
85 volvo 760gle sedan turbo diesel
85 peugeot 505s wagon turbo diesel & parts car
83 chevy k20 suburban silverado 6.2 n/a diesel
i deliver blends of biodiesel -no more!.
82 datsun 720 KC w/sd22
85 volvo 760gle sedan turbo diesel
85 peugeot 505s wagon turbo diesel & parts car
83 chevy k20 suburban silverado 6.2 n/a diesel
- 240ZD
- Posts: 103
- Joined: 17 years ago
- Location: Longview, WA
Thank you for your patience everyone! At long last, the Rajay turbo is installed! As usual, it did not go quite as smoothly as planned, but nevertheless, it went quite well. I was pretty exasperated at times, mostly over little stuff like oil lines, but I had a good friend there for mental support. The whole process took about four days.
The little "J" pipe turned out to be a perfect fit to the LD28 manifold after all...no mods necessary. What came about was that the whole setup was 2" too high to fit into the Z when bolted to the LD28. Perhaps it is the hieght of the block. So with much cursing and grinding, I fashioned a 2" exhaust coupler to drop the turbo setup down, where it fit perfectly on both car and engine. I mean, I probably invented several new curse word combinations doing this.
Below are photos of the whole shebang. I will have a video on youtube in a few weeks hopefully, to better show off what it's like. In short: much more smooth and quiet, much faster especially on the highway...it seems to accellerate even faster as you gain speed, i.e., it accellerates faster at 70 than at 30 mph, or it feels like it. Very, very easily blasts right past 100 mph at 7 lbs of boost. Cruising at 80, she holds about 1-2 lbs of boost. And of course, the sound it makes has people flipping their wigs, including me.
The J pipe....most important piece.
The major artifacts of the turbo system. I had to make all the gaskets, which was not fun, but they all sealed just fine. The little stuff was annoying, requiring many trips to Home Depot racing, aka, the bolt and plumbing isles.
The coupler. It basically just connects the J pipe to the manifold with 1.75" exhaust pipes, as shown below. It is exactly 2" thick.
Above is the complete assembly, which was bolted to the block as one piece, shown below.
...And here it is, installed and driveable. Please note that the blow-off valve on the intake pipes was removed because it didn't do anything. Also, the pcv tube was disconnected from the intake manifold, as it interfered with the turbo's oil drain system, causing oil to flow out of the exhaust pipe. This was because of the pressure the turbo put into the block, causing backpressure on the drain system. TurboMaster Pius told me to plug the intake manifold and vent the pcv to the ground with a tube, as these diesels must have a completely unrestricted oil drain system to use turbochargers. This cured the oil-in-the-exhaust problem immediately.
Yes, yes, yes, I'm on the lookout for an intercooler; the piping has already been acquired. No, I did not install a pyrometer yet, as Texas (where the project was completed) doesn't even seem to have an Ace hardware, let alone a damn pyro guage. But I have not touched the smoke screw, so all should be well. Amazingly,even without changing the fuel settings, the engine can hold 7 pounds of boost.
Thanks for your interest, and without ya'll on this forum, the diesel swap would have likely never happened at all. One final note: TURBO YOUR LD28!!!!!
-samee
The little "J" pipe turned out to be a perfect fit to the LD28 manifold after all...no mods necessary. What came about was that the whole setup was 2" too high to fit into the Z when bolted to the LD28. Perhaps it is the hieght of the block. So with much cursing and grinding, I fashioned a 2" exhaust coupler to drop the turbo setup down, where it fit perfectly on both car and engine. I mean, I probably invented several new curse word combinations doing this.
Below are photos of the whole shebang. I will have a video on youtube in a few weeks hopefully, to better show off what it's like. In short: much more smooth and quiet, much faster especially on the highway...it seems to accellerate even faster as you gain speed, i.e., it accellerates faster at 70 than at 30 mph, or it feels like it. Very, very easily blasts right past 100 mph at 7 lbs of boost. Cruising at 80, she holds about 1-2 lbs of boost. And of course, the sound it makes has people flipping their wigs, including me.
The J pipe....most important piece.
The major artifacts of the turbo system. I had to make all the gaskets, which was not fun, but they all sealed just fine. The little stuff was annoying, requiring many trips to Home Depot racing, aka, the bolt and plumbing isles.
The coupler. It basically just connects the J pipe to the manifold with 1.75" exhaust pipes, as shown below. It is exactly 2" thick.
Above is the complete assembly, which was bolted to the block as one piece, shown below.
...And here it is, installed and driveable. Please note that the blow-off valve on the intake pipes was removed because it didn't do anything. Also, the pcv tube was disconnected from the intake manifold, as it interfered with the turbo's oil drain system, causing oil to flow out of the exhaust pipe. This was because of the pressure the turbo put into the block, causing backpressure on the drain system. TurboMaster Pius told me to plug the intake manifold and vent the pcv to the ground with a tube, as these diesels must have a completely unrestricted oil drain system to use turbochargers. This cured the oil-in-the-exhaust problem immediately.
Yes, yes, yes, I'm on the lookout for an intercooler; the piping has already been acquired. No, I did not install a pyrometer yet, as Texas (where the project was completed) doesn't even seem to have an Ace hardware, let alone a damn pyro guage. But I have not touched the smoke screw, so all should be well. Amazingly,even without changing the fuel settings, the engine can hold 7 pounds of boost.
Thanks for your interest, and without ya'll on this forum, the diesel swap would have likely never happened at all. One final note: TURBO YOUR LD28!!!!!
-samee
"Man, your engine is knocking really bad..."~
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- Posts: 541
- Joined: 17 years ago
- Location: San Francisco
Hey, Congrats! Problems? What problems! Looks very nice.
If you get a chance post a few pics of the intake plumbing and the exhaust plumbing. Show what special bits are needed. There was a thread here about an oil trap which might work to keep the pcv a little "greener" and also give you some idea of how much oil is going out that door. Maybe I got more time tonight I'll edit in the link.
Cheers, Rufus
If you get a chance post a few pics of the intake plumbing and the exhaust plumbing. Show what special bits are needed. There was a thread here about an oil trap which might work to keep the pcv a little "greener" and also give you some idea of how much oil is going out that door. Maybe I got more time tonight I'll edit in the link.
Cheers, Rufus
82 Maxima wagon
- 240ZD
- Posts: 103
- Joined: 17 years ago
- Location: Longview, WA
Well, the turbo is all broken in. She spools quickly to about 7 lbs of boost with the factory-stock smoke-screw positioning. Contrary to popular belief, the LD28 makes way more power and boost at high rpms than at low, just like a gas engine, except with much more torque.
She sprung a few oil leaks on my way through Florida, and I poured about 1.5 gallons of Rotella through the thing to get it to Orlando, where the alternator and rear diff both gave out simultaneously! Yeesh.
Oil problems fixed, and new alternator installed, along with a "cold air" intake. She didn't like the air filter mounted right next to the exhaust manifold, HA!
If I were you currently turbo'ing people, IMHO, I would fashion a J-pipe to connect between the stock manifold and a turbo flange before I screwed with that 280zx turbo manifold. Make a flange to fit the stock manifold, and use two semi-circular pieces of 1.75" exhaust tubing, collecting them to dump into a T3 flange, available on Ebay for $10, as mentioned in a post above. OR, I believe it was DMS who said to just make your own manifold using a cheap gasser header.
Good luck, and Godspeed! 'Cause that's what you will have after your turbo swap.
She sprung a few oil leaks on my way through Florida, and I poured about 1.5 gallons of Rotella through the thing to get it to Orlando, where the alternator and rear diff both gave out simultaneously! Yeesh.
Oil problems fixed, and new alternator installed, along with a "cold air" intake. She didn't like the air filter mounted right next to the exhaust manifold, HA!
If I were you currently turbo'ing people, IMHO, I would fashion a J-pipe to connect between the stock manifold and a turbo flange before I screwed with that 280zx turbo manifold. Make a flange to fit the stock manifold, and use two semi-circular pieces of 1.75" exhaust tubing, collecting them to dump into a T3 flange, available on Ebay for $10, as mentioned in a post above. OR, I believe it was DMS who said to just make your own manifold using a cheap gasser header.
Good luck, and Godspeed! 'Cause that's what you will have after your turbo swap.
"Man, your engine is knocking really bad..."~
- asavage
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5433
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- Location: Oak Harbor, Wash.
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Thanks for taking the time to show off. I know the work involved, and I appreciate it. Good Job!
The PCV system on the LD28 is not really like a PCV on a gasser. It's sealed but not really "positive". Plumb the line from the valve cover to the turbo intake, to remain green. When you left it plumbed to the OEM place, when boost came on it pressurized the crankcase, which immediately pushes oil that should be draining from the turbo, past the turbo's turbine seal into the intake.
The solution is to not pressurize the crankcase.
TMP should have given you better advice. I'm sure a lot of people do settle for a road draft tube, but there's a reason why they were outlawed in 1961 in California, and 1963 for the rest of the States.
Turbos put whipped & aerated oil back into the sump, which is why turbo oil return piping must always be plumbed above the oil level in the pan: the turbo won't drain if you try to drain aerated oil into the liquid oil in the sump.240ZD wrote:. . . the pcv tube was disconnected from the intake manifold, as it interfered with the turbo's oil drain system, causing oil to flow out of the exhaust pipe. This was because of the pressure the turbo put into the block, causing backpressure on the drain system. TurboMaster Pius told me to plug the intake manifold and vent the pcv to the ground with a tube, as these diesels must have a completely unrestricted oil drain system to use turbochargers. This cured the oil-in-the-exhaust problem immediately.
The PCV system on the LD28 is not really like a PCV on a gasser. It's sealed but not really "positive". Plumb the line from the valve cover to the turbo intake, to remain green. When you left it plumbed to the OEM place, when boost came on it pressurized the crankcase, which immediately pushes oil that should be draining from the turbo, past the turbo's turbine seal into the intake.
The solution is to not pressurize the crankcase.
TMP should have given you better advice. I'm sure a lot of people do settle for a road draft tube, but there's a reason why they were outlawed in 1961 in California, and 1963 for the rest of the States.
See these pics for some inspiration, or some idea of how it's been done.I did not install a pyrometer yet, as Texas (where the project was completed) doesn't even seem to have an Ace hardware, let alone a damn pyro guage.
That's what Dslsmoke found on his conversion too.But I have not touched the smoke screw, so all should be well. Amazingly,even without changing the fuel settings, the engine can hold 7 pounds of boost.
Regards,
Al S.
1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
Al S.
1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
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