Overheating

[Dr. Jones]

Hey guys I just got my other Sedan running but it's overheating. The weird thing is that there is no heat coming from the vents does this point to the thermostat? Also about 10 minutes after shutting it down I heard coolant rushing into the resivour. Hey, Al that picture in the top left of the screen is that an engine you own?

[asavage]

Hey guys I just got my other Sedan running but it's overheating. The weird thing is that there is no heat coming from the vents does this point to the thermostat? Also about 10 minutes after shutting it down I heard coolant rushing into the resivour.

You might have an air lock. That's not uncommon in other rigs, don't know about the Maxima. It ties in with no heat coming from heater. If heater hoses are cool, either the heater valve is closed (I just verified that there is one), the heater core or hoses is/are blocked, or the pump isn't working (pump failure, no belt, or air: the water pump won't pump air). The flow of water through the heater core is unaffected by the thermostat.

Of these, air in the system is the most likely cause. Be aware that a blown head gasket will introduce air into the system, so if you are sure it's full of coolant, and later find air, you'll want to do a CO test on the coolant. Test kits are available (NAPA, etc.). About $15, last time I looked.

How do you know that it's overheating? By the dash gauge? If the gauge moves with engine temp, you've probably got enough water in the system to pump. Start thinking hard about a bad thermostat (heater works) or head gasket (heater works, then gets cold).

Hey, Al that picture in the top left of the screen is that an engine you own?

No, I got if off the web somewhere years ago.



Notice that the oil filter does not have an oil cooler, it's screwed directly to the block, ala 280Z and gasser 810. No EGR system, either.

[Dr. Jones]

It was the thermostat. Pulled it out and it cooled right off. But, the heat still isn't as hot as my other car I'm going to see if it wants to fix itself.

You think with the oil filter mounted directly into the side of the block it would be any easier to not spill oil on the rack and pinion boot?

[asavage]

Maybe. I know that it's easier to change on the gasser L24e. However, the oil runs all over anyway.

Depending on the condition of the coolant, you might have a plugged heater core. I've pulled the hoses off of heater cores and run water from a garden hose through them, both directions, and it's amazing the amount of crud that comes out. The heater core tends to become the coolant filter for the system.

With no thermostat, you won't get much heat this time of year. Use a 180° or 190°, both are OK for USA. Last resort, you could try to find the water valve for the heater and make sure its lever is getting pushed all the way to the "open" position.

[glenlloyd]

Hey guys I just got my other Sedan running but it's overheating. The weird thing is that there is no heat coming from the vents does this point to the thermostat? Also about 10 minutes after shutting it down I heard coolant rushing into the resivour. Hey, Al that picture in the top left of the screen is that an engine you own?

Hey
Did your replacement thermostat have a small air vent in it? The air vent helps when refilling the system. Also you might try masaging the hoses when you fill, VW suggests this on their engines although I've never had to do it. I have a tendancy to refill the cooling system slowly and that seems to work well.

steve a

[Dr. Jones]

No I checked, but it did not have a hole. Is that all it does is allow you to put coolant in the raditor faster?

[asavage]

Well, the hole in the thermostat plate allows air to move past a closed thermostat. It's great for filling a dry system, but it's also good if you have a leak, because once air gets on the bottom side of a closed thermostat, the thermostat's wax pellet won't get hot enough to open: overheat.

Once you get a system purged of air, the presence of the bleed hole is immaterial, until you get air in it again (for whatever reason).

On some engines (Subaru comes to mind, but a lot of alum-head engines), it's considered normal for a small amount of gases to leak past the head gasket into the cooling system, and that's an add'l source of "air".

[glenlloyd]

Exactly what Al said.

Peugeot diesels use vented thermostats as well, especially the 505 turbo diesels...at least if you purchase the OE thermostat it's been my experience that they're vented.

SA

[Dr. Jones]

As long as I keep an eye on te temp you guys think I be alright?

[asavage]

Yes. Once you get the air out (ie radiator full and engine temperature normal for a few minutes), you'll probably never have problems again -- until something leaks.

To all: it bears repeating that green coolants need to be changed every two (plus) years or 30k miles. The silicate corrosion inhibitors are good for only that long, and then electrolysis etc comes to town. See the FAQ.

[Dr. Jones]

Peugeot diesels use vented thermostats as well, especially the 505 turbo diesels...at least if you purchase the OE thermostat it's been my experience that they're vented.


How are the Peugeot diesels? are they expensive to keep running? are they pretty peppy for a diesel?

[glenlloyd]

Peugeot diesels use vented thermostats as well, especially the 505 turbo diesels...at least if you purchase the OE thermostat it's been my experience that they're vented.

How are the Peugeot diesels? are they expensive to keep running? are they pretty peppy for a diesel?

The engines are ok, but you have to be very thorough about the work being done. I don't know about Europe, but in the US you "hear" about replaced head gaskets. I never replaced one but my first one, a 1981 505 TD with the 2.3L 80hp XD2S, needed one when I sold it. This engine may have had a turbo that was not boosting properly, who knows. I sold it before I really became familiar with diesels and the mechanics of the engine. The suspensions are really well done, comfortable cars that ride very nicely. These cars were all about comfort. They handled ok, but that was not their big priority, at least not with the diesels.

Peugeot didn't use a timing belt on these, only gears (XD88 motor) and later a timing chain (XD90, XD2, XD2S, XD3, XD3T motors)

The later 2.5L TD (1985-6 XD3T) was a better motor, with good power, 95hp in US trim, available in Europe at 110hp, intercooled (XD3TE) etc. This is a good engine. I installed a used one in a 1984 604 TD, big car (3700+ lbs), and I managed 0-60 in 11/12 seconds. Not bad for a four cylinder in a big sedan. These were still IDI engines too.

The best setup was the TD with the five speed gearbox, which you could get from 1981-86. The 505 and 604 were both big cars, a lot for a four cylinder to push, but the ride was fantastic and the seats were excellent. I would not get one with the 3-speed auto tranny if I wanted one for mpg. With the five speed in my 1981 I managed to pull 42 mpg, 40 mpg consistently. In 1986 they introduced the ZF4HP22 4 speed auto trans. It turned out to be a problem child, not just for Peugeot but for any automaker that used it (BMW etc). Rebuilds fixed the problems but it wasn't cheap.

My 79 504 has a 2.3 D non-turbo (XD2, also non-running) and a four speed gearbox. This engine and tranny will be replaced in the spring with a 2.3L TD engine and five speed from a 1984 505. It should make the 504 a better road car.

The problem today is that the Peugeot diesels here in the states are no newer than 1986. Thus, old population, dwindling in numbers, and probably not a big income generator for parts suppliers. There are some places to get new parts for mechanicals, and I personally am not scared by the slim parts network. I belong to several Peugeot forums and try to keep a handle on where I can get what I need. I even belong to a French forum for Peugeot and I may join the Nantes Amicale Peugeot club. I recently sent some US Peugeot parts to France for an enthusiast who wanted hi 505 GTI to look like the "export" model. With the communications we have today you can find just about anything. Also, with Peugeot you always wanted to stay away from the dealership anyway, the parts were horribly expensive. There's more secondary market parts available today with the dealerships gone...at least I think so.

Forgot to mention - Peugeot, like VW, used an alloy head on these engines and they develop the traditional micro-fissures between intake / exhaust valves.

my .02

Steve A

[asavage]

Wow, Steve, you surprised me with your apparent knowledge of the Peugeots!

My father owned a 504 diesel wagon ('77?) and it was pretty nice, until totaled by a motorcycle t-boning it.

Last summer, I paid $50 for an '80 505SD:



Those are pics the PO had on Craigslist when he was trying to sell it. Below are the pics I took.




It was supposed to be a "running when parked two years ago, bought for my wife but she doesn't like it" car, that the owner could no longer get started. I drove two hours to buy it, dragged it home, only to find that it has NO 3rd gear (or was it 4th?), most electrics not working, and worst of all, low compression. How low? Well, I couldn't get it fired up, it was too low. I pulled the GPs, did a compression test, all 310 or below (way, way low). Figuring I had nothing to lose, I squirted a little oil in each hole, put the GPs back in, ran through three GP warmup cycles, and it lit right off. Ran OK and on all four, so I tried to drive it. No clutch disengagement. So I got it warmed up, started it in gear and drove it down to the mill and back -- this can be done if you are careful and know what you're doing. That's when I discovered the trans problem. Put it on a lift, looked at the back of th clutch, some of the diaphragm arms are at different heights than others -- uh, oh. Exploded/delaminated disk.

Warm engine, re-ran the compression test, numbers better but not a lot above 350: won't start reliably in cold weather.

So, low compression, bad tranny, bad clutch, electrical issues. Oh, yeah, the electric fan clutch was tack-welded too. Seems like some other issues that I won't be bothered to go find my notes to list. I ran a pressure washer across it, and sold the car for $100 and towed to the guy's house. I could have driven it, it was only six miles, but no registration. He has a later TD and he thought he could use some parts (needed a radiator), but after looking under his hood, I don't think so. Radiator's different, grille different, much of the accessories different. They really did a job on the turbo models.

I have to say, the seats were absolutely perfect condition. Amazing, for a 25 yr old car. And, typical of French cars, long-travel suspension gave an amazing ride. I could get used to it.

The numbers you quote for the 5-spd 604TD are great. Twelve seconds 0-60 in a Four that weighs 3700 lbs? Wow! I may have to find a TD wagon. Do they exist? What model do I want?