Nissan Patrol SD33

[RMP&O]

Hello all....let me start by introducing myself.

My name is Ian and I live in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. I am a Nissan Patrol fanatic and have been one for the better part of 15yrs. Over the years I have owned many Patrols most being the 60 series produced from 1960-1979. The 60 series Patrol was sold in the USA from 1961-1969. I am so into Patrols I have even gone as far as importing a 1977 Ute from New Zealand. I currently own 3 Patrols...a 1964 soft top under full frame off resto, the 77 Ute imported from NZ and the Patrol I use the most a 1983 MQ.

About 4 years ago I sold one of my Patrols I had done lot's of work to. Part of the deal with the sale was that I deliver the truck to the buyer in SF, California. So I hauled the Patrol on out to SF and collected my cash. Since I was over 1000 miles from home, had a trailer and some cash I decided to bring back another Patrol. Before the trip I had located a 1983 Patrol for sale in Bakersfield, California. So I drove on down there and took a look at the truck. It was pretty clean but when I showed up the owner was jump starting it and using starting fluid to get it going. That I thought was a bad thing. I took it for a drive and everything seemed fine except the motor. It ran but ran rough and smoked. I seller wanted $2000 for the truck but I told him with these motor probs I will give you $1500 and haul it away. That was it...done deal and the 83 Patrol was mine.

I got the Patrol home and didn't really do much with it over the next few yrs. I would just start it up once a every few months. Well this summer I decided to get the truck on the road...but I should mention this is the first diesel I have owned or worked on.

I found a number of problems...
#1: crappy old diesel in system which smelled a bit like veggie oil. No there is not a veggie set up on this truck. I drained all the diesel and put in new diesel.
#2: leaky fuel lines, I tightened them up and made sure there was no more leaks.
#3: very dirty fuel filter. It also had about 1/4 cup of water in it. I put in a new filter and used an SD22 filter that Jesco sent me.
#4: bad injectors, had them rebuilt by Denver Diesel.
#5: Auto glow plug system has been messed with by original owner. The truck is 24v but it is running 12v g-plugs. There is a small relay mounted on the firewall which runs from a hot side of one battery to the g-plugs and a push button on dash. The g-plugs do work but I am not sure how well.
#6: 12v headlights hot wired off one battery. Between this and the 12v glow plugs I have figured out there is a charging probelm. The alt gets confused and over charges one battery while under charging the other. I have improved charging by unhooking the 12v headlights, charging over the batteries is now much more balanced. This is a temp fix while I located new 24v headlights.
#7: Changed out the oil and filter which was pretty darn dirty. I used a new Nissan filter and just some 10-30 Valvoline.

This is most of what I have done to the motor. When I got the Patrol it ran really bad and was very difficult to start. It also blew huge clouds of white smoke. The guy I got it from had the Patrol about 5yrs. He purchased it from the original owner. Story goes the original owner is from Germany. He brought the Patrol over here when he moved to the states in 1988. The original owner is a supposed Benz diesel mechanic. The Patrol came with reciepts for many things including a full motor rebuild. Reciepts total about $3000 in new parts for the motor work including a new head from Nissan. Supposedly the German man did the engine rebuild himself. But I can't tell by the reciepts what pistons were used, ect ect ect. After the rebuild something wasn't right so the original owner just sold the truck. The guy I bought it off didn't know jack about diesels so it sat in a field most of the time he owned it.

After the work I have performed on the motor it now starts much easier. The huge clouds of white smoke are gone. But the truck still smokes. I have read up on diesel motors and smoke but they reading is always general about smoking diesels. IE, white is water in fuel, black is bad combustion or over fueling, blue is oil.

I was hoping some of you Nissan diesel experts might be able to narrow down my smoking motor problems. Here is how it breaks down for smoke...

-When started the motor blows a small amount of white smoke. On a warm morning this lasts under a minute. On a cold morning it may last awhile, 5-10mins. I think this is fairly normal. If I jump in the truck and go it blows a lot of white smoke for about 1-2miles and then it goes away. When cold the motor miss fires fairly bad. Once warm this goes away.

-Out on the road after warmed up the SD33 blows black smoke. But it only blows black smoke under throttle or load. Cruising along at sustained speeds or idling at lights there is zero smoke. Off-road it blows black smoke under the same conditions, ie load.

-Coming down steep hills off-road she will start blowing lots of white smoke with some blue mixed in. This is only when decending mnts. while using the motor/tranny to keep speeds down. The white/blue smoke is constant and a fair amount, if reved it is huge clouds. The motor also starts miss firing at this point. I have not noticed this on the hwy decending only off-road with a load on the motor. Once down to level ground this smoke/miss fire begins to go away but it takes some time. The smoke turns greyish and then goes back to black once the motor warms up. Once the temp rises a bit the smoke stops entirerly except under load, then it is black. It seems the temp will rise a lot when working the motor, ie uphill climbs. But when decending it cools way way down, like to the "C". For some reason I get the feeling this smoke is related to engine temps...??

-The temp is all over the place. The truck takes forever to warm up. When it is cold out it may never get very warm. If I run the heater on high it drops temp a lot on the motor. The only times it gets hot is when working, ie uphill hwy climbs, speeds over 65-70mph or working off-road. It got very hot last weekend playing in 3-4" deep mud at fairly high speeds. But other than this it runs really cool, like to cool. Gauge is usually on the cool side and not even half way to hot.

-The oil is pretty thin. Even after a recent oil change it got thin and very black fast. It doesn't really smell like diesel but it doesn't entirerly smell like just plain oil either. I see no signs of water in the oil. The oil is thin when the motor is both cold and warm.

Now I am thinking the engine temp has a lot to do with this smoke. But I am not sure if the thin oil is also suggesting some sort of probs. The smoke I am experiencing I don't think is normal for this motor, expecially after a full rebuild. The smoke is at very specific times and is not just one color it is all colors depending on the situation. So this kind of confuses me. If it just smoked blue all the time I would figure bad rings but it doesn't. It smokes different colors at different times.

More than anything I am just looking to be more educated on a diesel motor and what causes these types of problems. I have done what I can short of trying to adjust fueling/timing. I tried to test compression once but did it wrong and readings were low.

So is there any advice you can give me...suggestions or ideas as to what my motor is doing? I am going to put in a new thermostat today, have to see how that goes. We don't have a good diesel mechanic here in Jackson who could tune my Patrol. I do have a reciept from original owner showing injection pump tested and it appears it tested fine, this was after rebuild. I plan to swap this motor out in the future with a factory SD33T but in the meantime I would like to get this one running well, especially with winter coming on. Not only that I would like to know everything I can about the old SD33.

The 83 Patrol as you probily know is extremly rare in the USA. Never sold here and very few have been imported, most imported are RHD. I love the truck, it ia really a lot of fun to drive and work on. I feel lucky to have found it since the truck is LHD and a factory diesel. It has really taught me a lot about the 1980's Patrols and so far a lot about diesels. Here is a picture of the Patrol...




Long post...sorry about that it can be one of my faults.

[asavage]

Welcome, Ian!

You are warned that most of us here know little about the Patrol. Especially myself. Davehoosin Australia is an exception, he seems to know quite a bit about them, though I sometimes have difficulty following what he's written. But we can generalize from the more-common SD22s we have here in the States.

#3: very dirty fuel filter. It also had about 1/4 cup of water in it.

Water + diesel = bacteria. If you get intermittant fuelling problems in future, think bacteria. In the tank (plugged pickup screen) or in the IP itself. Water in your fuel is to be avoided!

#5: Auto glow plug system has been messed with by original owner. The truck is 24v but it is running 12v g-plugs. There is a small relay mounted on the firewall which runs from a hot side of one battery to the g-plugs and a push button on dash. The g-plugs do work but I am not sure how well.

That mod is probably OK. Complication: there are at least two different types of GPs that were used in the SD engines. One type can be run for very long periods and suffer no or little damage. The other (newer) are faster warmup but can burn out if run longer than some period of time. It is quite common on IDI diesels of the 80s to run half-voltage GPs. They warm up quite fast and some GP controllers either pulse them or run them at reduced voltage after a number of seconds.

Naturally, when using a "full manual" GP controller (ie your pushbutton) you want the older, safer GPs. More on this later on down . . .

The 720 diesels (1981-86) utilize two distinctly different GP systems:

• Type 1, 1981-83 SD22, with a single relay and "slow" GPs. This system can run up to 45 seconds before the Wait light goes out. The GPs run at full voltage both before starting and afterglow.
• Type 2, 1983-86 SD25, with dual relays, "fast" GPs. This system requires much less time until the Wait light goes out, and operates the GPs at a reduced voltage for afterglow.

For more info, read Philip's SD25 GP post and my fledgling GP chart (bottom bit) that is very incomplete for SDs, and which will move in future to a different location.

#7:I used a new Nissan filter and just some 10-30 Valvoline.

While this oil is fine, most of us prefer an oil with a higher diesel-rating. While the 10W30 probably has a diesel rating ("CI" rating) of something like CD or CF, and while that probably meets Nissan's requirement, overall you'll get better service from an oil specifically blended for diesel use. I like synthetic oils because (for one reason) they have a higher flash point and my engines use less oil because the oil doesn't vapourize (and go out the road draft tube or PCV system) as readily, and is harder to ignite (and get burned directly, when failing rings don't keep it below the pistons).

Talking oil is like talking religion to some folks, so I'll stop here.

-When started the motor blows a small amount of white smoke. On a warm morning this lasts under a minute. On a cold morning it may last awhile, 5-10mins. I think this is fairly normal. If I jump in the truck and go it blows a lot of white smoke for about 1-2miles and then it goes away. When cold the motor miss fires fairly bad. Once warm this goes away.

Look hard at the GP system, specifically the wires & connectors to the GPs. Use a voltmeter and long leads, or use a friend, and watch the actual voltage to the GP itself when your dash button is pushed. The Nissan harness connectors have proven to be trouble-prone, esp. the fusible link and the large 8mm (5/16") spade terminals that Nissan liked to use for the GP bus in the 80s. Measuring actual voltage at the GP itself when you press the button is the sure-fire way to check for voltage loss at one of those places. Or voltage loss at one of the mods' connectors.

SD GPs hole. Both Philip & I have experienced this. See this thread for more info. GPs are cheap and easy to replace. Consider them a consumable in an SD engine.

Once the temp rises a bit the smoke stops entirerly except under load, then it is black. It seems the temp will rise a lot when working the motor, ie uphill climbs. But when decending it cools way way down, like to the "C".

-The temp is all over the place. The truck takes forever to warm up. When it is cold out it may never get very warm.

It will never run right until you get this sorted. The SD and LD use a "special" thermostat, and using a "non-special" one will lead you astray. Please read the SD thermostats thread for good info here.

-The oil is pretty thin. Even after a recent oil change it got thin and very black fast. It doesn't really smell like diesel but it doesn't entirerly smell like just plain oil either.

This one has me a bit worried. Not the "turns black fast" part -- that's normal for these older diesels, your oil may be opaque on the dipstick at 100 miles. But if you perceive reduced cold viscosity, this has got to be fuel dilution, and can easily explain your odd downhill smoke & misfiring -- reduced combustion chamber air (closed throttle) and the inability of the rings and valve stem seals to control the highly-flammable (easily vapourized) fuel-diluted lubricant under high manifold vacuum conditions.

The oil is thin when the motor is both cold and warm.

I suggest that you have an oil analysis performed. If it confirms fuel in the oil, you will need to look at possible vectors: injector(s) leaking down, leaking IP front seal, etc. This can be very damaging to an engine.

More than anything I am just looking to be more educated on a diesel motor and what causes these types of problems. I have done what I can short of trying to adjust fueling/timing. I tried to test compression once but did it wrong and readings were low.

There will be no shortage of opinions here! Esp. from Philip . . . and me, of course

See my post on Testing Compression on the SD for more info. on that.

Long post...sorry about that it can be one of my faults.

I'd rather have too much detail than the converse. Write volumes, chances are they'll be read . . . if they're posted here, and deal with diesel.

[zen]

hmmmmmmmmmm..

sounds ill...

get a compression check done...if ok then go on to other things..

i have sd33 (diy turbo setup)in my truck..

NO SMOKE ON COLD START UP when air temp above 10c
1-5 secs of white smoke when below 10c..5 secs max at -5c
I would check to see if glow plugs good and clean out tank and fuel lines etc..could also be low compression

sounds like you using wrong oil too..try 20-50 or 15-40 if you cant get 20-50.USE A QUALITY OIL...oil going thin..fuel in oil...faulty injection bits..low compression(rings)

black smoke you describe sounds like injectors or faulty pump..low compression..mine dont blow any black smoke unless setting the fuel too high (in cab)and only then a tiny amount..

loads of smoke on decelleration(downhill engine braking) does sound like rings/head gasket/ valve stem seals etc..all not good could be faulty engine breayher though....

BUT get compression tested first.it will tell you where to look,save you time..as you could have so many different things up with her..from what you describe i expect you will find low compression, which you will have to sort..caused by rings? h/ gasket? cracked head? cracked piston? etc..But if all ok then atleast it should be sortable..

good luck..

[kassim503]

Welcome to our sandbox!

[RMP&O]

Well that should keep me busy for awhile...

I think I should point out this is not my DD or my form of transportation. It is my toy and part of my hobby, I use it on weekends to go to trails or during the week just a bit around town.

Getting used to a diesel is taking me some "feel it out" time. Petrol motors for me at least are much easier to detect problems. A cracked head or blown head gasket and it is obvious, ie leaking antifreeze, smoke, ect. Bad rings and there is lots of oil consumption. I guess some of what confuses me with this motor is once warm the thing runs tight. I hear no knocks, pings or other foul noises. Power is strong and she reves well with no miss firing. It doesn't burn any noticeable amounts of oil, it leaks a small bit off the pan. I actually had big power issues and it was lacking but that got cured when I fixed the leaky fuel lines, put in new diesel and new filter and had injectors rebuilt. All around the thing runs well but there is this thin oil and the motor does smoke as I described.

I went and put in a Napa thermostat today. I notice the one I pulled out is different with a rubber sealing gasket or o-ring. It was stamped 8 83 & 82C. The rubber was rotten and jamming up the thermosat. So after the new one she now runs at a normal temp. 1/3 to 1/2 on the gauge under a variety of conditions and the heater doesn't affect engine temp near as much. Heater is actually much warmer now! Down hill engine braking after new thermostat in 4wd low and it still smokes. But not near as much and I didn't notice miss firing. Temp during this also stayed much more steady instead of drpping way way low. Amazing the thermostat was affecting how the motor ran so much.

I have fooled around with both test lights and volt meters in the glow plug system. The push button set up is working but the GP are all wired together so not sure how to tell which may be burned up. Just disconnect them all from series and test each one at a time? I did get some 24v GP out of Aus but haven't put them in yet. I only glow for 20 secs and then stop, do it again for 20secs, repeat if needed. The controller is still wired up. It is not wired to glow plugs...I hear it though when key is turned on. I have the "Type 2" system you described. There is two glow plug relays. How does the auto timer work? Is it wired to the water outlet and is timed by engine temp? Or is it just a preset amount of time like the fast hot type plugs you describe?

I have had plans for some time to turbo this SD33. I even went as far as to buy a factory used turbo for the SD33. But after a lot of thought I have decided I am better off picking up a good SD33T and dropping it in the truck. I can save a lot of cash by doing this because if I turbo my motor then I would do new pistons, rings, ect. If I just buy a solid complete TD motor I can spend cash improving it rather than rebuilding it all. I guess my point is I am not overly concerned with blowing up the motor in my truck. Pretty much have already purchased a SD33T to drop in. But like I say this is all about learning how a diesel works. I suppose I should try and test compression again...

I have a number of factory manuals and the SD33 is very similar to the SD22. The books cover both motors side by side.

Any ways thanks for all the info...guess I should get back to reading.

[asavage]

When you hear hoofbeats, think horse, not zebra. IOW, don't look for the less common problems when the more usual supects are in the room.

I went and put in a Napa thermostat today.

Did you read the thermostats thread? If not, you may not know that NAPA sells both the right and wrong thermostats for the SD engines! Compare the pics in that thread with what you intstalled. If your thermostat doesn't have the lower block-off disc, you've got the wrong one!

If you think you might have oil dilution, spend the $20 and have an oil sample analysed (see link upthread).

I have fooled around with both test lights and volt meters in the glow plug system. The push button set up is working but the GP are all wired together so not sure how to tell which may be burned up. Just disconnect them all from series and test each one at a time?

Did you read the GP thread I linked above? I give specific amperage draw numbers for good GPs. If you have a clamp-on ammeter, you can check the total draw and infer if they're working correctly. Or you can disconnect each, but you still need a current test, not a simple test light.

I did get some 24v GP out of Aus but haven't put them in yet.

12v GPs may be correct for that 24v system -- it's not uncommon.

I only glow for 20 secs and then stop, do it again for 20secs, repeat if needed . . . I have the "Type 2" system you described.

Then 20 seconds may be too much -- the Type 2 system isn't designed to run the GPs very long, and they can overheat easily. The Type 1 GPs are much more tolerant.

Read the GP thread!

There is two glow plug relays. How does the auto timer work? Is it wired to the water outlet and is timed by engine temp?

Yes. On the SD22 & SD25, there is a temp sensor on the side of the thermostat housing. It's the one with two wires (the one with a single wire is for the dash gauge).

[davehoos]

hello
you used the term MQ for this 1983 LHDpatrol.Is this term used in other parts of the world?

or is it 160/260.Made in spain?

MQ,This is the original name system used here in australia by most manufactures to help it sell to RURAL buyers.Local nissan dealer here is new and is no longer using these names. the M series has a few facelifts,the specs change.If you know what its the same as here i can find information for you.

I think the 24V systems use 24V glow plugs.I dont remember seeing complicated relay/wiring.One big round electric soliniod.If it has square[cube] relays i would guess it is a more complicated unit.glow plugs here in australia are basic,It was rare for diesels to be used in snow areas.

common practice to fit a battery balancer to these vehicles.this allows 12V radios to be used.the idea is that a controlled drain is used to flatten the unused battery.Radio are conected to earth and the mid point between the battery.the balancer has 3 wires conected to the battery terminals,earth[-],12V[+ mid point]and 24V[+].the 24V terminal is grounded to drain the system and maintain a voltage double the 12V half way point.we use a 1200 watt unit on freezer trucks.

[philip]

snip- I think the 24V systems use 24V glow plugs.I dont remember seeing complicated relay/wiring.One big round electric soliniod.If it has square[cube] relays i would guess it is a more complicated unit.glow plugs here in australia are basic,It was rare for diesels to be used in snow areas. SNIP

Typically, a 24v system supplies 24v ONLY to the starter by having the two 12v batteries supply current in SERIES. All else in the vehicle is 12v taken from only one of the two batteries with an automatic splitter required to charge whichever battery has the lesser charge. This is why you did not see "complicated wiring" in the glow plug circuit ... or any other vehicle 'system'.

Confirmation would be finding a 12v alternator.

But in the Patrol's case, there are BOTH 12v and 24v glow plugs used depending on .... (yet to be determined).

Installing 24v glows in a 12v glow system will make cold starts more difficult. So measure your ACTUAL voltage at the connector feeding the glow plugs.

MODEL CC Engine Cyl V YEAR Part

AJK Glow Plugs T

PATROL 3.3 SD33 12V 6cyl 6/80->8/82 JAS62NI

PATROL 3.3 SD33 24V 6cyl 6/80->8/82 JA80NI

PATROL 3.3 SD33 12V 6cyl 8/82->86 JAS62NI

PATROL 3.3 SD33 24V 6cyl 8/82->86 JA65NI

PATROL 3.3 SD33 12V 6cyl 12 87-> JAS84NI

PATROL 3.3 SD33 24V 6cyl 87-> JA85NI

PATROL 3.3 SD33T 12V 6cyl 85->87 JAS62NI

PATROL 3.3 SD33T 24V 6cyl 85->87 JA65NI

PATROL 3.3 SD33T 12V 6cyl 87-> JAS84NI

PATROL 3.3 SD33T 24V 6pcs 87-> JA85NI

[philip]

SNIP- I only glow for 20 secs and then stop, do it again for 20secs, repeat if needed. The controller is still wired up. It is not wired to glow plugs...I hear it though when key is turned on. I have the "Type 2" system you described. There is two glow plug relays. How does the auto timer work? Is it wired to the water outlet and is timed by engine temp? Or is it just a preset amount of time like the fast hot type plugs you describe? SNIP

Type II AutoAfterGlow System in SD23/25

[davehoos]

Sorry i cant help with data.i hant bothered keeping 1970's data and workshop manuals.some are not overly model specific.cant find my 1985 specs but the 1986[last] 160 spec both NA and turbo on all but the van model.not sold around here.

160 diesel patrol sold in australia built in japan [M series] are totally 24V vehicles.i havnt seen any other variation.I know you could factory order different spec vehicles.the manual claims SD33 24V-SD33T 12V.i know this is not correct.

the Petrol L28 and P40 are all 12 V.There are so many petrol powered models converted to diesel that its common practice to obtain 12V engine electrics.A relay arrangement in a neat box can be purchased cheeply to supply 24V for the starter only.

the L28 short wheel base have been very cheep to purchase,and are a little lighter in constuction.these make a good donor for SD33.,and the last P40 long wheel base wagon comes standard with lots of mod cons and the square headlight front.but the engine are not worth fixing.

[RMP&O]

My Patrol is all 24v besides the stuff the p/o changed to 12v. All the relays, bulbs, switches, wiper motor...everything is 24v. Alt is also 24v and internally regulated. I am very sure of this because I had to trouble shoot the wiring to figure out why I had charging probs. The charging probs were a result of 12v stuff being put in my 24v system. This confused the alt which made it overcharge one battery and under charge the other.

The headlights are wired through some aftermarket relays or solenoids. Two pods mounted in the front of the engine bay pulling power directly off one battery and then supplying power to the headlights. The stock wiring is all there but the p/o did put in numerous 12v stuff. The 24v SD33 Patrol did come with a 12v accesory relay. This is mounted in my engine bay but I can't tell what is run off it currently, nothing as far as I can see. It was put in by Nissan for running low wattage AM radios back in the day. I did have a factory rear fog lamp which oddly enough was 12v. That has been removed. Other dead wires in the system and any 12v stuff I could find has been removed. My charging problem seems to have subsided and the truck is now charging much more equal across both batteries.

I don't know what glow plugs are currently in the truck because they have no markings or anything on them. But they are not stock. If they were "quick glow" plugs I assume I would have burned them up long ago because when I got the truck I glowed it much longer than 20 seconds. The glow plugs still work, maybe one or two is burned up or weak but the truck obviously still has functioning glow plugs or it would be much harder to start than it is. It actually isn't very hard to start at all. Two 20 second glows and it fires right up. The auto glow light on the dash does light up when key is turned on but only for 1-3 seconds.

I am sure I have glow plug issues but I do not think this is because I have the wrong g-plugs wired into the Type 2 system. Like I say the auto system is not wired up to any glow plugs. The reason I think I have the Type 2 system is because I have two 24v glow plug relays. The system is still in place and I can hear it run when the key is turned on....but it is not wired to any glow plugs. I have studied my 86 parts book and also manuals to try and figure this all out. It is all there still besides a wrie or two and the original type glow plugs. I did buy some 24v glow plugs out of Aus for the truck but until I am sure everything is sorted out I don't want to put them in the truck. Not only that but I seem to be missing the stock wire from glow plug controller/timer to the actual glow plugs so I can't just put in the 24v plugs, connect the wire and go. There is a little more to it than that.

I can provide pictures of any of this stuff if you like?

[RMP&O]

Here is a picture where you can see the relays or solenoids for the heads lights....bottom left hand corner.



Here is a close up of the headlight pod thingy...



And a picture of the same for the glow plugs....

[RMP&O]

Thermostat was the correct Napa one. I used a part # from the Scout forums.

[asavage]

Wrong thermostat (but sold by NAPA anyway for this application):

[RMP&O]

Like I said...I used the correct thermostat.

The one pulled out was nearly identical but of a bit higher quality. Plus it has a rubber seat built into it which is what was trashed. Rotting rubber jamming up the thermostat + not letting it seal keeping it open 24/7.