My car died! Not sure whats up......

[dieseldorf]

Another way to start-up the diesel with air in the IP and not to strain the battery and starter to much is as follows:
1. remove all the glow plugs
2. insulate the GP supply wire, so it will not short out
3. crank the engine for 20sec. with the gas-pedal fully depressed. Once you see fuel mist expelled trough the injector holes, stop cranking. Replace the glow plugs and you are ready to go.
If you do not see fuel mist after three cranking attempts, there is definitely something else wrong. Most likely the internal lift pump, plugged or leaking fuel line or filter, plugged tank venting.
Never, ever use starting fuel. More often it will damage the piston rings if not more serious parts.

[asavage]

Removing the GPs isn't exactly trivial, but yeah, if you think you'll be doing a lot of cranking, this will definitely make it easier on your starter & battery.

[240ZD]

It took two maddening days and several battery charges to get my junkyard-dry LD28 fired when I first installed an into a Z. Checked all the fuel lines, bled the IP return line, cracked open the injector lines until fuel seeped out, removed glow plugs to check for fuel spray, but all I could get was a little cough and sputter. But it fired RIGHT UP when I finally stumbled upon the solution: have a friend crank the engine while I simultaneously pump on the fuel filter primer button. Worked like a charm.

[atalamark]

Folks-

No success!

The lowdown:

I took the battery out of my Mercedes 240d which is big and full of charge to assure ample cranking time/power.

First I checked out the Fuel Cut Solenoid, it has power and it clicked when I made the connection.

Second, I re-primed the IP, just to be sure. There were some air bubbles to be found! I pumped until the fuel ran bubble-less and then pumped a bunch more to be safe.

Third, I TRIED to see if the IP belt was in fact there. No such luck, couldn't see a thing. A real drag! I can't see any way to see the belt....

Fourth, I cracked open three of the injector lines so that when I cranked the engine I could verify the presence of fuel in the system, and that the IP was working.

Fifth, I cranked the engine. And cranked, and cranked and cranked. I never saw any fuel seep out of the opened injector lines.

Now in prevjous posts, I've been told that it can take ALOT of cranking to get the engine started if the inectors are dry.........how much is alot? I mean I can't really quantify how much I cranked, but certainly if you added it all up it would be 5 plus minutes of the engine being cranked with a fully charged big battery. Nothing.

So either it takes more cranking, or, the belt is broken, or the pump don't work.

I figure to get at the IP belt I just remove everything in the way, the radiator, all the other belts etc.

It sucks that you have to do all that JUST TO SEE IF YOU HAVE A BELT!

And of course, what if there IS a belt.......

Is getting at the belt straight-forward enough for an average home mechanic?

Geez, I hate feeling like "why did I buy this car", but dang , this isn't going so good.......

Mark E Kaylor

[83_maxima]

Are you SURE your glowplugs are working?

Have you tried to jumper the bus to the battery for ~10 secs and then try and start the car?

[atalamark]

Well I'm not sure that the glow plugs are working.....they worked before the car stalled......there was a little bit of smoke coming from one of the glow plugs today when cranking the car.....

BUT , even if the glow plugs didn't work, wouldn't I get fuel coming out of the opened lines while I cranked the engine? I mean the glow plugs would make it hard to start but they wouln't make it so that fuel wouldn't reach the injectors.....

And I'm not sure what you mean about "jumping the bus to the battery for 10 sec"

stumped

Mark Kaylor

[83_maxima]

If the plugs weren't glowing, it might never start. If you want to fast glow the plugs (full power) assuredly, you can run a jumper wire from the battery to the glow plug bus for about 10 seconds and it will fast glow the plugs.

Reading this thread, I am quite surprised you're not getting any fuel at the injectors, yet you've got fuel athe the IP.

Tried cracking one or more of the lines at the pump? See if you have fuel there?

Sounds like the belt may have broken to mee too. If everything is working correctly, you should see fuel at the injectors with the lines cracked within seconds of cranking.

Could you not get the plug out of the cover? You should be able to see something with an inspection mirror and that plug out. That'd be the next thing I'd try if I were you.

[asavage]

Sounds like the belt may have broken to mee too. If everything is working correctly, you should see fuel at the injectors with the lines cracked within seconds of cranking.

Could you not get the plug out of the cover? You should be able to see something with an inspection mirror and that plug out. That'd be the next thing I'd try if I were you.

Ditto. After what you did today, I think there's an excellent chance that the IP belt is gone. I would have put money on the fuel filter, but it sounds as if you have invested enough time bleeding the IP and cranking that there should be fuel at the injectors by now. You've done the Fuel Cut Solenoid audible test. What's left is belt breakage (common, and gives no symptom before dying) and IP failure (much less common, and usually gives symptoms before dying).

I've seen the IP belt strip a few teeth. It'll get mis-timed but still squirt fuel, just at the wrong time. This could have given you the "tried to re-start" symptom when you had tried to start it after it died. Then the belt really stripped. It doesn't always break, sometimes it just takes out a couple inches of teeth.

To sort of answer your IP belt replacement Q: I did a decent summary of what has to be done in the FAQ, IP Belt section. Please read that whole section all the way through at least once before starting.

Next, I tried to mail your FSM today, but the silly USPS wouldn't take it! Something about some guv'ment holiday or something.

Bear in mind I'll be travelling your way Friday, coming back through PDX Sunday too.

[atalamark]

I didn't think about using a mirror to see in the plug hole.

Of course, even if I see a belt that doesn't mean that some teeth might not be stripped off , right?

So maybe the best thing to do is to get the cover off and see once and for all what the situation looks like.........

Can't say I'm excited about it, but, what the hell?

Mark E Kaylor

[83_maxima]

Not excited?!?! Me neither. I have been putting off the same procedure all summer. I have all the parts, just need to DO It.

The main crank pulley needs to come off, to get the cover off. I think you can remove the 6 or so bolts and remove the pulley only, without removing the crank bolt which requires a flywheel/drive plate lock of some kind. I'll remove the radiator and do a flush while I'm at it, maybe even the WP since the belts will be off and access easy...

[asavage]

To use the inspection hole, you need two people. Remove the accessory belts (which involves removing the water pump sheave, to remove the PS belt). You use the mirror to look through the inspection hole, someone else cranks the starter (now you know why the accessory belts have to be off!). You need to make sure the IP belt is moving. But at this point you don't have to remove the radiator or drain the coolant, but you do have the air intake plastic off.

[Carimbo]

I wonder if the rev counter signal could be tapped to ascertain if the IP is also turning over during engine cranking? Could possibly be less invasive and time consuming, although removing belts and supplying a helper w/ a flashlight and mirror (I would probably do this part and have the helper turn the ignition key) is not a terrible chore. Especially if the belts need changing anyway (probably).

[asavage]

The amplitude of the rev sensor is very low:


300mv at idle = ? at cranking speed? You are down in the depths of the range that most fully-shielded DMMs can measure. Any reading you got could reasonably be attributed to stray magnetic induction from the starter.

Put another way: no. The rev sensor is not, unfortunately, a Hall-effect device.

[atalamark]

Folks-

Finally got time and break from the rain today so I could start disassembly to get at the IP belt.

I removed all the stuff in the way, with radiator with hoses. No problem, although getting the hose clamps loose and othe hoses off proved to be the biggest pain.....

So I remove pulleys and belts, and I'm left with only two things in the way of the IP belt: the crank pulleys and the belt cover.

Easy right? Wrong! In my case at least..........in the FAQ I read "The crank pulleys come off as an assy via (6) 6mm socket-head (Allen) bolts....."

Okay, simple enough, so I've got a bunch of allen head tools, break out the right one........can't get these babies loose! I mean I tried EVERY one, different angles of attack, using all my strength (I'm not superman but geez, I should be able to get one off, right? )

So now I'm stuck thinking how the heck do I get these 6 things off??

stuck in Oregon,

Mark E Kaylor

[asavage]

I put a deep socket, maybe 10mm, on a 6" long 3/8" ratchet extension, then slide the deep socket over the allen wrench to gain enough leverage to break them loose. You are creating a pipe extension. A deep socket is required to make this trick work, but the actual size isn't important. 10mm seems to be the socket I grab first. I haven't broken the end off a 6" extension yet.

Be sure to use Lock-Tite on those bolts when you put them back in! The dampers are expensive to replace, should the bolts come loose.

You can also use a socket, I guess.
From Sears, $6.

DoItBest hardware, $5

From KD tools, $3