Diesel Price

Ongoing discussion of anything not related to Nissans or diesels.

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philip
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#31

Post by philip » 13 years ago

asavage wrote:SNIP- No use bitchin', we've seen this coming for a long time, and have some of the cheapest transportation fuel in the world.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/21/news/in ... 2007052111

"While wholesale prices for gasoline are generally the same in Europe as they are in the U.S., Schipper noted the $5, $6 or $7 a gallon Europeans pay, thanks to the high tax."

"We still don't pay very much in gas taxes," said Lee Schipper, research director at Embarq, the World Resources Institute's Center for Sustainable Transport."

So ... weak little minds want Americans to suffer taxes like socialists do so that government gets more money. Keep your eye on the MONEY.
-Philip
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My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

plenzen
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#32

Post by plenzen » 13 years ago

Al is absolutely correct on your cheap fuel!!
Here in the GWN, where I am at least (southern Alberta) we have been paying 1.01 to 1.20 / Ltr gas for the past year or more and it has just gone up again. Saw stations yesterday at $1.10 for reg. Prem. I wager would be $1.25 - $1.30/ Ltr. :x :x
I bought diesel yesterday at $1.04 Ltr. That is $3.94/ Gal US and $4.72 / Imp. Gal. We are just used to it that is all. :roll:
Sounds like you are doing your best to close the gap.
:(
P
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philip
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#33

Post by philip » 13 years ago

So Paul... do you want American taxes raised to Canadian levels so that we call all snivel TOGETHER or .... would you prefer lowering Canadian taxes to level of Americans? Let your Liberals snivel. Or should we all suffer together with the Eurpeans?

We did the Boston Tea Party. Time to do it again, in a different way. :wink:

The speculative fuel markets are the forces driving up prices.
Last edited by philip 13 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

goglio704
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#34

Post by goglio704 » 13 years ago

Well, since this is the off topic area...
If it were up to me, I would do two things to encourage energy independence:

1: I'd build a bunch of the new generation of nuclear power plants which rely more on physics for safety than the older, more complex designs with multiple, expensive redundancies. We should not be using oil to generate electricity or heat homes. It is nuts.

2: I'd move away from OTR trucks and toward rail based shipping for long distances. This would require modular shipping containers which could be switched quickly from one train to another by automated gantry cranes.

Bear in mind, both of these objectives would require decades of work. As a group, we Americans have short attention spans and tend to change direction every 8 years or so.

In the short term, we need to build refineries and the pipelines to go with them. Too much of our refining capacity is on the Gulf coast. The right hurricane in the right spot, and we will be truly screwed.
Matt B.

83 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 5 speed, white, 130k miles. My original Maxima.
83 Maxima Sedan converted from gasser, LD28, 5 speed, 2 tone blue, 230k miles
82 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, 2 tone Gray/Silver, 140k miles
81 810 Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, rust, rust, and more rust!

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plenzen
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#35

Post by plenzen » 13 years ago

Nukes are a great way to go and the Prov Gvt. here is seriously looking at them as an option for the oil sands in place of the billions of cubic feet of Natural Gas that they use to get the bitumen out and then send it to the US for refining. The tree huggers and the whiny liberal Dooms Day types are dead against it but there is more and more talk of it all the time. What to do with the waste though? Hmmn :?: :?: :?:
Phillip!
Any ideas where to send it :?: :twisted: :twisted:

And by the way

You are trying to incite me to become politically incorrect!!

Stop it! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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glenlloyd
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#36

Post by glenlloyd » 13 years ago

goglio704 wrote:If it were up to me, I would do two things to encourage energy independence:

1: I'd build a bunch of the new generation of nuclear power plants which rely more on physics for safety than the older, more complex designs with multiple, expensive redundancies. We should not be using oil to generate electricity or heat homes. It is nuts.
Without question this is going to happen, but we're way behind where we should be. This should have been high priority a decade ago.
goglio704 wrote:2: I'd move away from OTR trucks and toward rail based shipping for long distances. This would require modular shipping containers which could be switched quickly from one train to another by automated gantry cranes.
For two reasons; our road system can't sustain the kind of truck transport we have at present, we simply haven't the resources to maintain the roads and fiscally we can't continue to spend what we are now to maintain them. Additionally, we can't continue to build new roads in this country that we ultimately can't maintain. We are just beginning to see the pending doom with things like the catastrophic bridge failure in Minnesota.

It is unfortunate that we couldn't build autobahn quality road surface in the US, it would have meant less repair expense later on, which as we know is the most costly component.

Second, rail is the most cost-effective method of transport in this country even though it may compromise delivery times etc. I believe we need to get back to a solid rail transport system.
goglio704 wrote:Bear in mind, both of these objectives would require decades of work. As a group, we Americans have short attention spans and tend to change direction every 8 years or so.
Nuclear power, yes, we're quite a ways away, but rail might not require decades to implement if it was recognized as a priority by those with the power / financial resources needed to make it happen.
goglio704 wrote:In the short term, we need to build refineries and the pipelines to go with them. Too much of our refining capacity is on the Gulf coast. The right hurricane in the right spot, and we will be truly screwed.
True, as summer 2006 should have made blatantly clear to everyone, we're incredibly vulnerable in our present situation.

steve a
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

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asavage
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#37

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

philip wrote:
asavage wrote:SNIP- No use bitchin', we've seen this coming for a long time, and have some of the cheapest transportation fuel in the world.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/21/news/in ... 2007052111

"While wholesale prices for gasoline are generally the same in Europe as they are in the U.S., Schipper noted the $5, $6 or $7 a gallon Europeans pay, thanks to the high tax."
So ... weak little minds want Americans to suffer taxes like socialists do so that government gets more money. Keep your eye on the MONEY.
[Moderator hat ON]
OK. Because I'm the one who made the statement that you quoted, I assume you are referring to me as one of the "weak little minds". I don't think that's an appropriate way to refer to someone on this board whose opinion you think is incorrect. Self-censor yourself in future, or find a board that doesn't care. This is an Off-Topic forum; that does not give anyone license to name-call.
[Moderator hat OFF]

You quote a snippet by someone at CNN. If I had the time & inclination -- which I do not, I could round up a snippet or two myself that says that the reason we -- the US and only the US -- have so low taxation on road fuel is to artificially promote low transportation costs. You having been in the transportation industry, you may have unique insight into this.

Aside from that!
Tax rates on road fuel are not going down in any significant way.
Crude oil prices are not going down in any significant way.

Therefore, quit your bitchin' and get used to it. We've seen this coming for a long time and we've had plenty of time to get used to the idea that the US is going to have to pay more at the pump for road fuel, and that the US is not going to be majority Caucasian.

I pay $3.77/gallon for US-produced, carbon-neutral fuel and I'm happy with that situation. If the price of BD goes to $5/gallon, I'll still be happy about it.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
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#38

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

glenlloyd wrote:Nuclear power, yes, we're quite a ways away . . .
Heard of the Hanford nuclear facility? It's in my state. We have an underground radioactive waste plume that is so large it has now (AFAIK) reached the Columbia river. There have been leaking underground storage tanks on the site there for decades.

Trust the goverment to clean it up? Sure you can trust the government: just ask an Indian!

If we could find someone willing to live with the byproducts of nuclear fission, in their backyard, then nuclear power would nearly be a no-brainer. We successfully export our "recyclables" to other countries where they are sometimes "recycled" into their landfill; maybe we can export our nuclear fissile waste that way too.

How 'bout in your backyard?

Not mine. Not, apparently, Nevada's either. Meanwhile, we have huge and growing stockpiles of radioactive waste growing near every nuclear facility now in production.
No, I don't think I'll be voting the nuclear ticket anytime soon.

I would like legislation that puts road vehicle tailpipe exits in front of the car!
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

glenlloyd
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#39

Post by glenlloyd » 13 years ago

asavage wrote:
glenlloyd wrote:Nuclear power, yes, we're quite a ways away . . .
Heard of the Hanford nuclear facility? It's in my state. We have an underground radioactive waste plume that is so large it has now (AFAIK) reached the Columbia river. There have been leaking underground storage tanks on the site there for decades.


Didn't know that Al, certainly we don't hear about that in the news.
asavage wrote:Trust the goverment to clean it up? Sure you can trust the government: just ask an Indian!
I absolutely don't trust the government to clean it up.
asavage wrote:If we could find someone willing to live with the byproducts of nuclear fission, in their backyard, then nuclear power would nearly be a no-brainer. We successfully export our "recyclables" to other countries where they are sometimes "recycled" into their landfill; maybe we can export our nuclear fissile waste that way too.

How 'bout in your backyard?

Not mine. Not, apparently, Nevada's either. Meanwhile, we have huge and growing stockpiles of radioactive waste growing near every nuclear facility now in production.
No, I don't think I'll be voting the nuclear ticket anytime soon.
I didn't indicate that this was a choice I necessarily approved of, but it certainly is for others. I just think that it's inevitable that we'll be forced to have more nuclear plants. The waste is another issue that to date has been inadequately dealt with and poorly monitored.
asavage wrote:I would like legislation that puts road vehicle tailpipe exits in front of the car!
That would be interesting!

steve a
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

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philip
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#40

Post by philip » 13 years ago

goglio704 wrote: 2: I'd move away from OTR trucks and toward rail based shipping for long distances. This would require modular shipping containers which could be switched quickly from one train to another by automated gantry cranes.
You have not driven across Northern America, or across many different routes.
And no clue about the real physics -requirement- needed to move containers.

Intermodal systems have been here a LONG time.

http://www.jbhunt.com/index.html
http://www.jbhunt.com/intermodal/index.html
http://www.jbhunt.com/intermodal/railnetwork.html

Virtually all coast ports have cranes to move containers from ships to rails. And all rails have to be moved again ... from rails to trucks because ... (is it not obvious?)

And there are lots of materiéls that must move MUCH faster than rail freight. Ya want your veggies FRESH?
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

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asavage
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#41

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

philip wrote:Ya want your veggies FRESH?
I want my veggies local and in season.

I heard or read somewhere that the average US meal travels an average of something like 1600 miles. We have a great Farmers Market here -- but only seven months of the year.

------------------------

Have been whipping my Green Aero lately. Replaced the fuel pump & sending unit last week, so the tank was known to be near-empty (less than a gallon). Got enough done to drive it home tonight (still no heat, but other things attended to). First: took it to the fuel station. 21.4 gallons, $70!

I'm going to miss driving the Maxima . . . fast. But the Aero is like a Packard compared to the Maxima: nice ride, much quieter, no smoke.

Is this Off-Off-Topic?

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#42

Post by glenlloyd » 13 years ago

Al, I was going to say the same thing. If I want veggies I'll buy them locally or grow them in my own garden.

Iowa Journal on IPTV had an excellent show about this very topic. He proposed that Iowa should be consuming what Iowa produces rather than having it trucked in. He went on to say that Iowa was exporting as a wholsaler and importing as a retailer, which was screwing Iowa producers.

We cannot afford to move product the way we have in the past, it just can't be done with the price of petroleum going the way of the sky. We need to rethink how quickly we actually need to get things from one place to another. We have to get away from this instant gratification problem we have now.

The only way I see this happening is to either go without, or reinvest in the US rail network...and do it quickly.

(This will also ensure me travel accommodations when I become a hobo.)

steve a
97 Jetta TDI, 86 VW Golf D
89 VW Fox diesel, 92 MB 300SD W140

gir - won't the sploding hurt?
zim - silence!

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#43

Post by goglio704 » 13 years ago

0.
Last edited by goglio704 13 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

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philip
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#44

Post by philip » 13 years ago

asavage wrote:I want my veggies local and in season.
And when you still want those same produce veggies out of season, do you choose frozen or imported? :wink: Still have to be trucked. Dry goods and canned foods are usually sent by rail to metro cities. But what about all those towns who don't have a rail head? Diesel trucks. :wink:
asavage wrote:I heard or read somewhere that the average US meal travels an average of something like 1600 miles. We have a great Farmers Market here -- but only seven months of the year.
Down here (soCal), there's a bunch of produce markets ... with nearly every thing imaginable and all year long. And all the larger produce markets also carry FISH and MEATS (yes, I know you are a vegetarian). These perishables (many vegetables and all meats) have to be in refrigerated trailers too ... pulled by diesel trucks. :wink:
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

plenzen
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#45

Post by plenzen » 13 years ago

Here are a couple of interesting views as they pertain to fuels and perhaps some alternatives.
I dont see why both of them could not be adapted to remove the bitumen from the tar sands that they presently use millions of cubic feet of Natural Gas to do.
What about steam turbines, or :?: :?:
I would think that egine technology should not be that far behind, but how much current ( AC or DC) do you need to produce these results :?:
I know you never get nothin for nothin' :roll:

The one video with the Water Fuel is now a couple of years old as I have had it at least that long.
I wonder what every happended to it??

Big Oil company perhaps buy it and squish it :?: :?: :twisted:

Anyone heard any more of either of these??

They are very interesting to say the least.

Paul

http://asavage.dyndns.org/Nissan/720/Ow ... tWater.wmv
http://asavage.dyndns.org/Nissan/720/Ow ... erFuel.wmv
Retired Pauly
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