Biodiesel

Discuss (and cuss) the Nissan LD-series OHC Six diesel engine, popularly available in the US in 1981-83 Datsun/Nissan Maxima Sedans & Wagons.

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asavage
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#16

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

TheDieseliminator wrote:I'm wondering can we buy seals for the LD28 injection pump that will prevent it from leaking once we start running the ultra low sulfur diesel fuel that the U.S. will be receiving pretty soon?
Sep-2006, nationwide.

This seal looks to be the right size & is viton (non-reactive with BD, and should not swell/accel wear with ULSD). I think that's the seal I'm recommending right now.

[Later edit: that seal's the wrong size for the LD28's IP shaft. Read this thread for more info, and the correct seal.]
All my dad and I drive are 80's diesel vehicles and I'm wondering if we'll have to change the seals on all the injection pumps in all our vehicles to accomodate this new diesel fuel that supposedly doesn't lubricate as well as our current diesel fuel that we use in the U.S.
Seals: some IPs will leaks, others won't. The Bosch VE IPs (some VW, some Nissan, others) is known to be a leaky design, regardless of fuel, but ULSD and BD accelerate the leak rate.

Lubricity: It's not that the sulfur is a lubricant as much as the process to remove sulfur from high-sulfur crude tends to remove/reduce the lubricating properties of the finished diesel. We went through this back in 1990 when the diesel we had then went to Low Sulfur Diesel (~500 ppm sulfur, the fuel we are using now). Many IPs began wearing prematurely, and fuel refiners and distributors quickly added additives to compensate the lubricity of the LSD. IMO, this is what's going to happen this time around too. BD may be the "additive" this time, depends upon politics and lobbying.
Dr. Jones wrote:As far as the IP goes all we need to do is replace the front seal and will this make our stlye pump be as relible as with PD?
I don't know. Other VE IPs are also leaking in other places, notably the top cover. Some leak at the o-ring between the distibutor head (cast steel) and the IP housing (aluminum). The top cover seal is easily replaced (on VW installations); the distributor body o-ring isn't.
Last edited by asavage 14 years ago, edited 3 times in total.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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asavage
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#17

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

TheDieseliminator wrote:I'm not too experienced on this subject and am just trying to learn more. I know others will have a good amount of opinions and true facts to discuss too.
Take a few minutes to read this post, a summary of BD issues I wrote a few days ago.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

TheDieseliminator
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#18

Post by TheDieseliminator » 14 years ago

Al, thanks for your initial reply. It basically answered my questions I had. On your secondary reply, I wanted to tell you I already read the information on the topic a few days ago back when you posted it. A good amount of information to gain as knowledge. Besides my Maxima, the other diesels my dad and I tinker with are mainly Chevy LUV/Isuzu PUP diesels from 81-87, a 1986 Mercury Topaz diesel (his daily driver), and a 1983 Mazda B2200 diesel pickup (not able to be driven because the frame is rusted). All the above vehicles use a VE injection pump. So, I'd say we have a good chance of leaking fuel once that new fuel is being sold throughout the country.

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asavage
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#19

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

Having just pulled a JY IP today, I can say with some certainty that we can replace the front shaft seal without disturbing the IP timing. Do all the work that you would to replace the IP belt, then pull the IP driven sprocket and the seal is right there. Will take some careful seal removal work, but it looks straightforward.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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philip
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#20

Post by philip » 14 years ago

asavage wrote:I am active in our local BD community. In fact, the privately run BD outlet here is going co-op next month, and I've been attending the planning meetings. So I'm hot on biodiesel. SNIP.

Tonight on Channel 9 Los Angeles, the news hour did a short expose on renting new VW TDI Beetles that run on B100. They quoted $3.45 per gallon and a rather expensive rental rate.

http://www.bio-beetle.com/
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

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asavage
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#21

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

Carimbo wrote:Al, is the VW (older) Bosch VE IP similar enough to the one on the LD28 to warrant trying this method? He modified a small gear puller with jaws made out of ground down 4mm allen wrenches.
That link is now dead. I've been unable to find the topic over there; they've probably reorganized it. Can anybody else who read it and remembers it find it?
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

goglio704
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#22

Post by goglio704 » 14 years ago

I have a link to the seal, but not the article.

http://www.harwal.com/mseal_products.ph ... t_id=19272
Matt B.

83 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 5 speed, white, 130k miles. My original Maxima.
83 Maxima Sedan converted from gasser, LD28, 5 speed, 2 tone blue, 230k miles
82 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, 2 tone Gray/Silver, 140k miles
81 810 Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, rust, rust, and more rust!

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD

Carimbo
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#23

Post by Carimbo » 14 years ago

Couldn't find the thread where he describes the method of changing out the IP shaft seal in car, but found these interesting ones while searching there:
DIY Injector Tester
VW Diesel Training Manual

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asavage
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#24

Post by asavage » 14 years ago

Dr. Jones wrote:Does any one know where I can get a 110 lower heating element for a water heater?
Utah Biodiesel Supply, $10

Image
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

goglio704
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#25

Post by goglio704 » 14 years ago

I now have a source of B99, but it is not especially close. I intend to go buy 50 gallons and store it in a drum. Seems like biocide would be in order. Will plain old Sta-Bil work, or do I need something else?
Matt B.

83 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 5 speed, white, 130k miles. My original Maxima.
83 Maxima Sedan converted from gasser, LD28, 5 speed, 2 tone blue, 230k miles
82 Maxima Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, 2 tone Gray/Silver, 140k miles
81 810 Sedan, LD28, 3 speed auto, rust, rust, and more rust!

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD

Carimbo
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#26

Post by Carimbo » 14 years ago

goglio704 wrote:Seems like biocide would be in order. Will plain old Sta-Bil work, or do I need something else?
Biobor seems to be an effective standard.

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philip
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#27

Post by philip » 14 years ago

asavage wrote:SNIP
Pg 18 (10), "Most biodiesel samples improved JP-8 fuel lubricity to passing when added at 0.5% vol" (JP-8 is a jet fuel, roughly equivalent to kerosene I'm told)

Many references (Lucas & Stanadyne among them at the bottom) of this PDF. I didn't chase them all down.
Is JP-8 jet fuel the same fuel indentified as Jet A-1 on page 3 of the above 4 page .PDF ?

While petro/biodiesel blends of less than 20% are not available to me at a drive up pump, I have run at least a dozen tanks of B20. With B20, my SD22 does exhibit noticeably more cold engine combustion cackle, similar to winterized #2 diesel or petro diesel with POWER SERVICE mixed to raise cetane a few points.

So it seems to me that with biodiesel blending for acceptable lubricity, so too will the cetane be raised.

What am I missing?
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

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philip
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#28

Post by philip » 14 years ago

TheDieseliminator wrote:I'm wondering can we buy seals for the LD28 injection pump that will prevent it from leaking once we start running the ultra low sulfur diesel fuel that the U.S. will be receiving pretty soon? SNIP ... this new diesel fuel that supposedly doesn't lubricate as well as our current diesel fuel that we use in the U.S.
Over in the SD forum, take a look at thread title "Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel Article I", specifically the Stanadyne lubricity product I found.
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

TheDieseliminator
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#29

Post by TheDieseliminator » 14 years ago

Philip, I do believe I have read that whole thread already and probably estimating I did it at least a week ago. I understand there are lubricity products you can add to the fuel after you have filled some fuel or totally filled up your tank, but I always like the fact that right now you can always just pull up to the fuel station to put diesel into your vehicle and drive off. Now I guess it will not be able to be done in these older vehicles without cracking open the cap of one of those lubricity bottles to pour a little in the tank to get the fuel back to better lubrication. What happens when sometimes you don't have one of the bottles with you at the time you need to get fuel? I guess you should just pump the fuel in and just drive down the road saying, "Oh well I forgot my Stanadyne or ________ lubricity product this time." Not that it's a big deal, but you know what I mean? It somewhat becomes a hassle in reality. Too bad the government wouldn't already have this new ULSD fuel equipped with a lubricator to compensate for the older 1990 model year and below big rigs that are still driving the highways hauling loads you see daily. And of course for us people driving the older diesel powered vehicles from the 80's (like myself). But I guess one may consider that likely to happen in a "dream world" given our government is more interested in the new technology vehicles from 2006 on up that will technically need this ultra low sulfur fuel. Am I correct there? I guess if I happen to change the one seal needed to be changed for the Maxima's VE pump I will be good to go for running this new fuel we will be receiving soon. Even after I change that seal won't I still need to run a lubricative in the fuel for the internal moving parts of the injection pump? I can see changing the seal out will prevent leaks, but I guess it isn't 100% protection from the less lubricative fuel known as ULSD. Appreciate the replies and I'm just trying to learn more here. Don't mean to argue any points or think I know it all.

Salvy

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#30

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

I have been driving my '82 Wagon daily for about three months (it usually just sits). Due to local circumstances, I have been unable to run BD most of that time. Last Thursday, B99 became available again. I ran my tank way down past Empty, filled with B99. I have a sample of four days of identical routine driving. Two things I noticed within a day: much less visible black smoke on heavy acceleration than with D2, and it's a lot harder to start now.

Starting has been deteriorating for a while with this Wagon. I need to install one of the Addy GP Bus Bar, Rev. B and see if that clears up a bit. On B99, it still starts cold OK but one cylinder definitely takes a lot longer to fire up, so I now get around ten seconds or more of rough idle with one cylinder not firing at all, where with D2 that problem existed but they were all up and running in under ten seconds.

Warm starts are now a bitch. Whereas before, a 30 minute soak meant that the GP system would not turn on the GPs and I'd have to crank about three to four seconds (a long time, count four seconds out loud) and then it would light off with a minor cloud of smoke and an brief rev up with that extra fuel that didn't ignite during the cranking.

Now, on B99, with the same 30 minute soak (I have a morning routine that calls for a 17 mile drive, 30 minutes of timeout, then another two mile drive) I have to crank for about eight seconds, and when it finally lights off I get a much larger smoke cloud of course.

Replacing the GP Bus and adding a manual dash button has moved up my priority list significantly.

D2 is selling for $3.19, BD for $3.50 here right now.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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