Moved: IP belt replacement notes

[goglio704]

This was mixed in with a bunch of other stuff in my User's rigs thread. I replaced the IP belt and tensioner after the belt stripped the teeth at the crank. I wasn't careful enough when I retimed the engine and what follows was the result. I collected this here for future reference...



Got it to fire tonight. The ignition note is very sharp and loud. Great billowing clouds of gray/black smoke. Not quite what I was looking for. Doesn't want to idle till it warms a little. It seems to be hitting on all six. I got worried about what might be in the fuel (gas, kero, whatever) and temporarily installed a new fuel filter and fed it fresh fuel out of a can. No difference. Does this sound like timing too far advanced? I set it to the B mark. The belt is marked. 20 cogs. Kinda bumfuzzled. Maybe I'm off a cog. I guess I will try cracking individual injectors one at a time to induce a miss and verify that all six are firing. Suggestions?

later...

It absolutely doesn't want to restart warm.

later still...

Carimbo's trick of disconecting the temperature sensor for the glow plugs got it started again. It won't tolerate any load or a miss on any cylinder. Either of those causes a stall. I wonder how many revolutions it takes before the timing marks on the belt fall in the same place again? The closest I got was when it was one cog off on both the crank and the pump. One cog off in the same direction on both ends is just as good as lined up though, unless I'm deluded.

[asavage]

I'm certain you didn't use the non-A mark:



The symptom of using the wrong mark is exactly what you describe. And, man, is it noisy. I'm surprised you got it fire. Fess up: you used ether, didn't you?

[goglio704]

No ether! I'll reply to the rest after I've digested it. Thanks.

[goglio704]

Al,

What manual is that page from? I'm referencing the 82 manual page EF-42 where it speaks of three belt aligning marks and tells you to use the "B" mark. I have marks called "A" "B" and blank. I probably used my 83 manual last time. I need to see if it reads differently.

later...

The 83 reads the same, except for the page number which is EF & EC 64.

My 81 manual reads like the page you quoted, but it is not identical. I may have used the 81 diesel supplement manual before because it is slimmer and more to the point when it comes to the diesel.

[asavage]

What manual is that page from? I'm referencing the 82 manual page EF-42 where it speeks of three belt aligning marks and tells you to use the "B" mark. I have marks called "A" "B" and blank. I probably used my 83 manual last time. I need to see if it reads differently.

OMG
This is a big problem.

From the '82 FSM:



From the generic (Nissan) LD manual:


I've done so many of these, and I've never spotted this.

Matt, please take a picture if you can, of the setup that (eventually) works, so I have one for the FAQ. This is going to bite me again.

[goglio704]

I don't guess it would be smart to fire the engine without the crank vbelt pulleys? Is that assembly also a balancer?

later...

Installing and removing the crank vbelt pulleys is about my least favorite part of the job so I decided to skip that step since I feared I would have to do it several times. I don't think the crank vbelt pulley assembly balances anything because it can be installed in six different positions since the holes are uniformly spaced. It may dampen torsional forces in the crank, but I just wanted to run the thing for about 15 to 20 seconds to verify timing. Under those conditions, it doesn't seem to hurt anything. Your results may vary.

The "B" marking is correct and the companion keyway is marked "AB." The radiator is still in and I can't get a picture that close. I do have a picture from when I did the Blue car. I'll post it when I get a chance.

To make a long story short, I had the marks lined up last night, but the crank was one full turn out of phase. I must have rolled the engine after my initial check and wound up out of phase. I didn't check it initially, because I would have bet $100 the engine wouldn't run like that. Not my finest moment, but educational none the less.

With the crank in phase and the belt lined up on the "B" marks, it starts and runs like it should. The transmission engages immediately in D or R. Alternator doesn't seem to put out. Electrical system will be the next phase of the project.

[goglio704]

What manual is that page from? I'm referencing the 82 manual page EF-42 where it speaks of three belt aligning marks and tells you to use the "B" mark. I have marks called "A" "B" and blank. I probably used my 83 manual last time. I need to see if it reads differently.

OMG
This is a big problem.

From the '82 FSM:



From the generic (Nissan) LD manual:


I've done so many of these, and I've never spotted this.

Matt, please take a picture if you can, of the setup that (eventually) works, so I have one for the FAQ. This is going to bite me again.

In looking at, I think either will work as long as you don't try to mix the two methods. The relationship between the belt matchmark and the shaft keyway looks to be the same in both scenarios. Be advised that the companion keyway to the "B" marking is marked "AB"

After I had everything back together and it was too late to do anything about it, I thought of some ways to compare the two different methods. Next time I have one of these open I'll check it out and update this info. I'll also try to get some pics at that time.

It is worth noting that the FSM wording about 20 cogs between timing marks is misleading. If your belt is marked correctly, the first marked belt cog would be "One" and the second marked cog would be "Twenty." There are not twenty unmarked cogs between the marks.

[windsock]

What manual is that page from? I'm referencing the 82 manual page EF-42 where it speaks of three belt aligning marks and tells you to use the "B" mark. I have marks called "A" "B" and blank. I probably used my 83 manual last time. I need to see if it reads differently.

OMG
This is a big problem.

From the '82 FSM:



From the generic (Nissan) LD manual:


I've done so many of these, and I've never spotted this.

Matt, please take a picture if you can, of the setup that (eventually) works, so I have one for the FAQ. This is going to bite me again.

In looking at, I think either will work as long as you don't try to mix the two methods. The relationship between the belt matchmark and the shaft keyway looks to be the same in both scenarios. Be advised that the companion keyway to the "B" marking is marked "AB"

After I had everything back together and it was too late to do anything about it, I thought of some ways to compare the two different methods. Next time I have one of these open I'll check it out and update this info. I'll also try to get some pics at that time.

It is worth noting that the FSM wording about 20 cogs between timing marks is misleading. If your belt is marked correctly, the first marked belt cog would be "One" and the second marked cog would be "Twenty." There are not twenty unmarked cogs between the marks.

I took a photo of the set up on my engine before I disassembled it for the IP work a while ago and now the XD card on the camera with the photos on it is spitting the dummy and I've lost the shots of the original set up. I searched through the 81 FSM I have here and online (thanks Al) and found the different pictures.

In short I have had the same marking problems as Matt I think. I haven't started the motor yet as it is on the garage floor awaiting the gearbox work to be completed (long story )

Below is a photo set of the cog I have to work with... and the timing marks etc that by Matts description sounds like his one. I remember looking at the set up before disassembly and remembering previous work I had done and "B" sounds like the correct option. I'll keep you all informed as I progress to start-up.











Cheers,

Phil