SD33Turbo question: IP pump modification

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zen
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Joined: 13 years ago
Location: london uk

SD33Turbo question: IP pump modification

#1

Post by zen » 13 years ago

have fitted turbo to my sd33 n/a and it goes like stink :D :D ..intercooler etc(see binder bullitens zen posts for info)

however it still utilises the kiki mz pump with pressure difference to control pump..i can alter the fueling by varing the boost to atmosphere pressure it sees..but i find egt could be lower..i am putting this down to engine not seeing enough air due to throttle flapper generally mainly closed(unlesss flooring it)

so...........can the pump be moded to take a normal cable controled throttle,and will it still take into account boost pressure and "richen" accordingly??

ie..i wish to do away with "flapper" to hopefully help egt but then pump wont work!!

any thoughts??oh cant get hold of correct sd33t pump here in the uk..cos there are none!!

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asavage
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#2

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

By far, the easiest thing to do is to find yourself a 1980 (and 1980 only) Scout with the SD33T, which was factory turbo. AFAIK, this was the only year that had a turbo for the IH line. There may have been other applications (marine, probably) that had a "factory" turbo for the SD33.

In marine applications, this engine is often referred to as a Chrysler engine, going back into the '60s.

You might also try asking over at binderbulletin diesel forum, where there is a LOT of SD33-specific knowledge and probably parts sources.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

zen
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: london uk

#3

Post by zen » 13 years ago

yes you are quite right!!!in both counts..i spend alot of time on binder bulletin forum,but they are mostly turbo based and i thought maybe you here would know or have a different/fresh idea?? and yes i expect they can help me with turbo pump...But i live in london UK and there are no scouts here(shame) and hardy/none nissan patrol turbo's..so i agree bolting the correct pump on would be good,but i cant get one :cry: :cry:
so buggered..hense asking if anyone has done mod to these pumps as they are basically the same as the sd22 units..

i have a problem with surging too.(see other post).the diesel pump shops here are quite honestly a waste of time when it comes to these units as they are quite rare and old,and they would rather not bother..which is a shame as i rather like the sd33 now its turboed..(150+hp) :D fun..

so any thoughts are welcome..(even dont bother cant be done,atleast then i can go another route?)

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asavage
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#4

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

Well, in order to get proper boost fuelling compensation, you're going to need an IP that is equipped to sense boost -- or get creative with external controls., usually an aneroid of some sort. Because overfuelling is bad (your EGT) and bothersome (poor fuel consumption, visible soot), overfuelling is to be avoided.

The advantage of obtaining an IP that is designed for turbo operation is that you don't have to be your own engineer ;) I've seen a couple of the SD33T IPs offered for sale here, and as I've have several items shipped from GB to US, I expect it could be arranged the other direction 8)

If you have a chance, please update your Profile to include your geographic location. You can do that by selecting "Profile" at the top of any page.

I have a picture somewhere . . . oh, yes, here it is:
Image Image

These appear to me as if they do not use the pneumatic governor system. I have these labelled as being from SD33T engines. I think one of them came from an eBay auction; the other is probably stolen from binderbulletin.

Maybe Philip has an idea or two.
Last edited by asavage 11 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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philip
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Location: Southern California, USA

#5

Post by philip » 13 years ago

zen wrote:yes you are quite right!!!in both counts..i spend alot of time on binder bulletin forum,but they are mostly turbo based and i thought maybe you here would know or have a different/fresh idea?? and yes i expect they can help me with turbo pump...But i live in london UK and there are no scouts here(shame) and hardy/none nissan patrol turbo's..so i agree bolting the correct pump on would be good,but i cant get one :cry: :cry:
so buggered..hense asking if anyone has done mod to these pumps as they are basically the same as the sd22 units..

i have a problem with surging too.(see other post).the diesel pump shops here are quite honestly a waste of time when it comes to these units as they are quite rare and old,and they would rather not bother..which is a shame as i rather like the sd33 now its turboed..(150+hp) :D fun..

so any thoughts are welcome..(even dont bother cant be done,atleast then i can go another route?)
Zen: While this is an SDxx four cylinder specific forum, obviously there are many similarities with the 6's but ... turbos are not one of those similarities. You should look to the TD series Nissan engines (come in both turbo and NA trim) for better answers to injection pump modifications that automatically compensate for times of pressurized air delivery.

Since your engine was orginally Naturally Aspirated, the pistons in your engine may not be the ones for a Turbo charged engine. I cannot say or refer you to a chart identifying if or when NA SD33 engines had the Turbo pistons fitted. I have not studied the SD33 as fitted to road vehicles. I would expect to find differences compared to industrial applications.

Take a look at THIS POST and note the final picture of two SD33 pistons.

I would be very interested in SEEING photos of your entire engine, particularly the turbo plumbing you devised to accomodate the air throttle and pneumatic governor. You can email them to me at: 1chip-state1@earthlink.net .

BTW, you might find these OEM power specs for your SD interesting:

SD33T I-6, 198 cu.in. (3244.6 cc),
Turbocharged 1980
101 bhp @3800 rpm
175 ft/lbs @2200

Source: http://members.aol.com/EldonMcf/specs.html
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

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asavage
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#6

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

philip wrote:I would be very interested in SEEING photos of your entire engine, particularly the turbo plumbing you devised to accomodate the air throttle and pneumatic governor.
I, too, would like to see this, even if it's all greasy ;) In my case, upload them here.
BTW, you might find these OEM power specs for your SD interesting:

SD33T I-6, 198 cu.in. (3244.6 cc),
Turbocharged 1980
101 bhp @3800 rpm
175 ft/lbs @2200

Source: http://members.aol.com/EldonMcf/specs.html
Zen, I do wonder about "150 HP", given that the OEM turbo setup (with more fuel added by the IP when boost is up) only is claimed to make 2/3rds as much.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

zen
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: london uk

#7

Post by zen » 13 years ago

ok...
getting off subject but...

Here are some pics

Image

Image

anyway you get the idea...

Re power, well soon to go on rolling road(once I have propane injection installed) but it is as quick as the 3.5l v8 that should be in car (also have same car with 130hp engine in, and its MUCH MUCH quicker). Also standard SD33T does not run 1 bar+ of boost, does not have Cosworth rally car intercooler, does not have in car adjustable fueling, straight through exhaust etc... so i stick with 150hp and soon to be more..propane!!). Will it hold together? thats another question altogether!!(but engines are cheap!)

Anyway, looks like modding pump is a non starter. So, anyone got an SD33T pump they wish to sell??? (not that the mz pump don't work, its just I wonder if i can lower EGT for same amount of power using proper pump?)

Hope pics are of interest..
turbo it

(sd33t home turbo set up if anyone is interested..)

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philip
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Location: Southern California, USA

#8

Post by philip » 13 years ago

zen wrote:ok...
getting off subject..but here are some pics (i hope)-SNIP-
Nice work. I see you have retained the air throttle just before the intake manifold, making your system a "blow through" arrangement. How many pounds boost is your waste gate limited to?
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

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asavage
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#9

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

zen wrote:standard sd33t does not run 1 bar+ of boost . . .
Whew!
cosworth rally car intercooler, does not have in car adjustable fueling , straight through exhaust etc...so i stick with 150hp and soon to be more..propane!!)
You will want to be careful with propane . . . but I'm sure you already know that.

Thanks for the engine bay pic, I commend you.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

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philip
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Location: Southern California, USA

#10

Post by philip » 13 years ago

zen wrote:SNIP- So i stick with 150hp and soon to be more..propane!!). Will it hold together? thats another question altogether!!(but engines are cheap!) -Snip-
Zen: Will it hold together? Reliabilty is what matters most in discussions here. But like I said earlier, The Pub is across the street.

Consider the following 1980 International Harvester advertisement for the "new" Scout SD33T diesel. It details the major modifications deemed necessary by Nissan.

Image
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

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asavage
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#11

Post by asavage » 13 years ago

Somehow, I doubt that the turbo addition was a factor in the larger camshaft journals ;)

Good info, I hadn't remembered that that oil jet piston cooling was added for the T.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

zen
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: london uk

#12

Post by zen » 13 years ago

well..its not a scout engine..its a nissan patrol out of about a 88-89 model i think..it has the squirters and maybe even turbo pistons...(european spec model)..the only way to be sure is to strip it,and well not doing that..it has been discused on binder that it makes good sense that nissan would have incorperated all of the "upgrades"in their later engines,keeps tooling costs down if nothing else..

so far its doing very well.(touch wood) and well if it goes pop,i can pick up spare engines for $us 200.and that comes with the rest of the car(plenty of rusted out patrols here,just all n/a though)i have a spare already.(just in case)

but i do drive it by the egt gauge,so hopefully it will go for alot longer yet..
turbo it

(sd33t home turbo set up if anyone is interested..)

davehoos
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Location: Karuah Valley,NSW Australia
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#13

Post by davehoos » 13 years ago

several SD33T for sale on ebay AU[australia] complete and in parts.with good photo. australian dollar is about 75 cents US.

the injector pumps look like the isuzu pumps sold here.the IP in the picture in this thread looks like an industrial pump.

the turbo models dont have the pneumatic control governor.ive seen non turbo engines with similar pump but may have bee a replacment engine.
the parts for sale are 1983-84 era the TD42 was on sale here around 1986.
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dieselscout80
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Location: South Carolina

#14

Post by dieselscout80 » 13 years ago

I don't think you need the boost compensator to run the turbo (the boost compensator keeps the engine from smoking in low boost conditions and then when boost is built up it adds fuel for more power) that stated I think you can also look for NA SD33 pumps with mechanical governor that should give him a few more options like Scout NA SD33's, Nissan UD truck, forklifts, and boats with SD33's.

Carey
Diesel Scout

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philip
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Location: Southern California, USA

#15

Post by philip » 13 years ago

dieselscout80 wrote:I don't think you need the boost compensator to run the turbo (the boost compensator keeps the engine from smoking in low boost conditions and then when boost is built up it adds fuel for more power) Snip

Carey
Carey: Looks like "you don't need a boost compensator" is in conflict with "boost compensator keeps engine from smoking in low boost conditions".

So to take best advantage, boost compensation is necessary to control exhaust smoke, power output, and of course exhaust temperatures.
Last edited by philip 13 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
-Philip
Passed 08May2008
My friend, you are missed . . .

1982 Datsun 720KC SD-22

"Im slow and I'm ahead of you"

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