LD28 transplant update (decent size pics)

Discuss (and cuss) the Nissan LD-series OHC Six diesel engine, popularly available in the US in 1981-83 Datsun/Nissan Maxima Sedans & Wagons.

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DMS
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LD28 transplant update (decent size pics)

#1

Post by DMS »

So Im getting things sorted out a bit still. I have a temp filter from NAPA. I have a genuine Nissan filter on the way from back east. I have a filter question to address in a moment. I have the engine in and Im wiring everything up. I also have a Air Aid intake filter on the way.

So I took some pics and thought I would share them with you guys.


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As far as the filter goes...
I would like to install a pre filter on the back of my car. Something that is a universal water/fuel seperator filter. Im unsure how to approach this. Maybe the direct replacement filter made by NAPA is a good start. I know its not the same as the Nissan part as per previous threads but it would stop a bit of matterial from getting to the primary filter correct? It might even lengthen the life of the limited supply Nissan part. Especially since Im planning on running bio later. I am wonding if I can find such a univeral part or if I could use a universal remote mount oil filter with a thread for the NAPA filter? :?:


ideas appreciated

Thanks
Ray
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Midnightz
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Location: Woodinville, WA

#2

Post by Midnightz »

Ooo... I'm jealous. Can you let us know what did you do with the oil pan?

I am (still) having fuel issues with my 83 wagon after about 5 tanks of B99. The symptom points to clogged filter. Replaced the filter (new since Sept). The second filter lasted about 10 miles. Put in a new filter in the rain at 5:00 this morning. Even a brand new filter (#3) won't stay idle for more than 10 sec. Had to swam home this morning...

Gave up. Called tow truck to take it to a shop. It's ok. Don't feel sorry for me. I can now replace/prime filter in less than 4 minutes.

I now think a pre-filter is a good idea because I am thinking B99 probably "clean" the tank and clogged the fuel pickup in the tank or in the fuel line between the tank and the filter (unless the shop tells me otherwise). If the shop said that I need to flush the tank, I probably would go ahead and install fuel cell, since my plan is to swap the LD28 to my 73 240Z. I definitely don't want to deal with this again with another tank on 240Z.

How about the prefilter from SD series?
90 Midnight Blue 300ZX NA 2+2 (DD)
83 Maxima Wagon Diesel (parted out-going into 240Z)
73 240Z (LD28 swap project)
08 Mercedes Benz GL320CDI
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asavage
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#3

Post by asavage »

I don't think that BD actually does much "cleaning" of the fuel tank, anecdotal evidence aside. I think something else is going on with your rig.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
SoCalanz
Posts: 37
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Los Angeles, CA

LD-series diesel engines

#4

Post by SoCalanz »

Ooo... I'm jealous. Can you let us know what did you do with the oil pan?
I am interested to know if you had to do the same thing as the other guy (sorry, the name escapes me) that put the LD in his 240.
Trying to catch some Zs? Keep on dreaming.

1983 Maxima Diesel Wagon
1992 Suburu SVX, Lsi, AWD
1995 Suburu SVX L, AWD
1972 Datsun 240z, highly modified
cab
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Location: Buckley, WA

#5

Post by cab »

These motors are fun to play with in Z cars. Yes, you need to modify the 280z oil pan and the oil pickup tube. I would say a Mig welder and angle grinder with a cutoff wheel is a must to modify these items.
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SoCalanz
Posts: 37
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Location: Los Angeles, CA

#6

Post by SoCalanz »

My understanding is the LD28 and the L28 block are the same. Wouldn't it make sense that the oil pickup from a 280z engine can be bolted onto a LD28 block, which would enable the use of the 280Z oil pan for the conversion? Both of the conversions I have seen on this sight had oilpan mods so I would imagine I am wrong. If not, then the 280z stuff would be the way to go. It just seems to me with welding there could be some problems in the future, ie, rust, broken welds, leaks, etc.
Trying to catch some Zs? Keep on dreaming.

1983 Maxima Diesel Wagon
1992 Suburu SVX, Lsi, AWD
1995 Suburu SVX L, AWD
1972 Datsun 240z, highly modified
diesel-man
Deceased
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Location: Elkton, MD

#7

Post by diesel-man »

Midnightz:
I am (still) having fuel issues with my 83 wagon after about 5 tanks of B99. The symptom points to clogged filter. Replaced the filter (new since Sept). The second filter lasted about 10 miles. Put in a new filter in the rain at 5:00 this morning. Even a brand new filter (#3) won't stay idle for more than 10 sec. Had to swam home this morning...
There is only one way to know and that is to cut open one of the filters and see if it is plugged. If not, you have an air getting in the line problem. Meaning that after you have it bled, you are out driving and the vacuum created by the injection pump (to pull the fuel up to the pump) is pulling air into the system somewhere past the fuel tank. Check fuel lines at the tank and the lines at the filter. If all is ok, you may have a bad filter housing.

I had this very problem that became visable enough over a year. It Started out feeling like it was running out of fuel avery few weeks and then three times in 25 miles. I would stop and pump the knob on top of the filter housing like 40 to 50 times....each time.

Do your analysis in the right order to save yourself extra work.

Is the fuel you are using more viscous than diesel? If so it magnifies the problem.
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asavage
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#8

Post by asavage »

SoCalanz wrote:My understanding is the LD28 and the L28 block are the same.
Nope. Though you can swap most of the hard parts, and I know of at least one person who has built a L28 gasser from the LD block, they are not the same. The oil pickup galley is not drilled from the front of the block to the mid-block location that the gasser's is. Hence the extended pickup tube.

Samee's 240ZD project is a long thread with lots of pics he took.

This was Rev. B of the pan, IIRC:
Image



This is the pickup tube (before the brace was added). See the mid-block hole for a pickup tube? It goes nowhere, and a couple of people have investigated to find that it also does not intersect the oil pickup gallery
Image

Later in the thread, Samee says,
240ZD wrote:I believe the 240z through 280z all have the same oil pan arrangement and steering cross-member location, so they will all need modified diesel parts. For example, the gasoline engines are DEFINITELY interchangeable across all early Z cars, and there are only two places for the oil pan to dip: the front or the back. I think it's basically impossible to fit that diesel oil pan into a Z.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
SoCalanz
Posts: 37
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Los Angeles, CA

#9

Post by SoCalanz »

I knew it! Using Z car parts on the LD28 was just too easy!
Trying to catch some Zs? Keep on dreaming.

1983 Maxima Diesel Wagon
1992 Suburu SVX, Lsi, AWD
1995 Suburu SVX L, AWD
1972 Datsun 240z, highly modified
SoCalanz
Posts: 37
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Los Angeles, CA

#10

Post by SoCalanz »

Does the maxima gasser and the LD28 max use the same oilpan and does it have the same bolt pattern? I am assuming it is not the same (but the bolt pattern may be) as it was indicated the pickup tube on the gasser is mid-block, where as the diesel is near the front. Also, is the bolt pattern on the 240z or 280z oilpan the same? I am cotemplating that conversion and I am wondering if there is any other way other than what was previously done on the LD28 oilpan, to accomodate the pickup tube.
Trying to catch some Zs? Keep on dreaming.

1983 Maxima Diesel Wagon
1992 Suburu SVX, Lsi, AWD
1995 Suburu SVX L, AWD
1972 Datsun 240z, highly modified
SoCalanz
Posts: 37
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Los Angeles, CA

#11

Post by SoCalanz »

One more thing.....In regards to the LD28 into a Z, is there a concern a diesel engine is heavier and new, stiffer front springs/struts are required?
Trying to catch some Zs? Keep on dreaming.

1983 Maxima Diesel Wagon
1992 Suburu SVX, Lsi, AWD
1995 Suburu SVX L, AWD
1972 Datsun 240z, highly modified
DMS
Posts: 117
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Location: Prunedale Ca. 93907
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#12

Post by DMS »

first of all I didnt use a real maxima engine. I used a mid sump engine from Jesco. So I didnt need to mod the oil pan. There are extensive posts on the oil pan mod on this site if you use the search function. Also check out hybridz.org or zcar.com for more. I found that specifically for the Zcar you have to modifiy the passenger side motor mount to accomidate the high pressure pump and the lines to the injectors. I havent seen that particular peice of information anywhere so there you have it. You will need the mounting bracket from a 240z. cut a notch in it for the pump and weld in a plate like the one for a 280zx. The 280zx bracket may have that particular plate in the way of the pump. So I didnt use it.

Im taking pictures so Ill have it all online as soon as I have internet again.

Ray
Ray
DMS
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Location: Prunedale Ca. 93907
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also

#13

Post by DMS »

I finally was able to prime the fuel system yesterday. I have just fuel coming out of the return line. I was able to turn the engine over to start priming the IP for a short time, but the battery needed to be charged. Im not getting any fuel to the injectors yet. I have loosened all the injector lines at the injectors rather than at the pump just because its easier to do so there. Now after rereading the FSM I see that I forgot to loosen the bleeder at the IP!!! doh! So that may solve my problem. The instructions I have are not specific as to how to bleed the system from dry. The section that tells you how to reassemble the IP after maintainance tells you that you connect the lines back u pin order of 4,2,6,1,5,3. It does not specify that I need to turn the engine over to bleed it in a particular order as I would expect. It just says connect them all in this order. So Im left with asking what good is it to connect all 6 lines up to the IP in a particular order unless your bleeding them in that order as well. But it really just says connect them all at once in this order. LOL Now I know I dont know much about diesels but maybe someone can straighten me out a bit cause Im confused as to why there is a order at all if they are all getting connected at the same time with no other steps involved.

Okay. So if I manage to get fuel to the injectors should I worry about the fuel being dangerous? Might just be a stupid worry but Ive seen cases where the fuel coming out of the injecors has sliced people open because the high pressures. Im not sure that the LD28 makes enough pressure to scare me during cranking.

I ordered the 30buck remote oil filter mount. Im thinking of mounting it near the firewall but space is becoming an issue and weight on one side of the car. I came to the realization that I ordered another Wix fuel filter but totally spaced on the water/fuel sensor that plugs the bottom. I see another thread about that part. I may have to order one but I dont actually need it as a sensor. Maybe if someone has a useless sensor that still seals we could make a trade or something.

As far as that sensor is also concerned I have another question. I totally lost the o-ring! So I got to thinkin... Im going to have to deal with my rubber situation soon anyway. Bio fuel will eat straight through that rubber in about a week of use. That will suck. Im ordering some Mercedes Benz diesel fuel line which according to a few sources is comperable to the synthetic lines you end up buying in most bio kits. I know several ppl that have been running this line for a few years now. I also have some stainless braided lines I was saving for my fairlady 2000 turbo project. Anyway, I went looking for a o-ring to replace the one on the fuel/water filter. I was standing in line at Kragen's and the guy behind me being into the whole bio diesel situation himself for many years caught my attention and said to run the green o-rings. They are intended for use with A/C systems. I guess those systems have alot of acids in the fluids and that the o-rings are made of some special material that will stand up to the bio fuel as well. So that was really cool.


[/anchor]
Ray
Carimbo
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Re: also

#14

Post by Carimbo »

DMS wrote:I have loosened all the injector lines at the injectors rather than at the pump just because its easier to do so there.
I can't see any benefit from cracking open the injector line fittings at the IP high pressure head. Think about what you are trying to achieve, so how would that help?
DMS wrote:It does not specify that I need to turn the engine over to bleed it in a particular order as I would expect. It just says connect them all in this order. So Im left with asking what good is it to connect all 6 lines up to the IP in a particular order unless your bleeding them in that order as well. But it really just says connect them all at once in this order. LOL Now I know I dont know much about diesels but maybe someone can straighten me out a bit cause Im confused as to why there is a order at all if they are all getting connected at the same time with no other steps involved.

Okay. So if I manage to get fuel to the injectors should I worry about the fuel being dangerous? Might just be a stupid worry but Ive seen cases where the fuel coming out of the injecors has sliced people open because the high pressures. Im not sure that the LD28 makes enough pressure to scare me during cranking.
Isn't the order important just to be able to get wrench access on all the collar nuts at the IP head? Not an issue for bleeding, or for connecting the lines at the injector ends.

Shortcut for bleeding the IP itself is to use mityvac to pull thru the IP's return fuel fitting until fuel runs clear. No shortcut that I know of for bleeding the injectors/ injector line. Crank crank crank. Or possibly on a MT car you could tow it in gear.

Diesel fuel dangerous at the output end of the injectors which spray 0 deg. high pressure jets; keep body parts away from there. As we are talking about bleeding the system presumably the injectors are already installed into the head so you should be safe there. What comes out of the cracked-open fittings at the injectors sort of dribbles out. Some say this step is not even necessary as these injectors employ return lines which should make them self-bleeding. Makes sense.
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asavage
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Re: also

#15

Post by asavage »

DMS wrote:Now after rereading the FSM I see that I forgot to loosen the bleeder at the IP!
I'm unaware of a bleeder at the IP. Can you tell me what page of the FSM you're on (and what year FSM you're working with)?
The section that tells you how to reassemble the IP after maintainance tells you that you connect the lines back u pin order of 4,2,6,1,5,3.
That's to avoid confusing and tangling the lines, not having anything to do with bleeding (AFAIK).
It does not specify that I need to turn the engine over to bleed it in a particular order as I would expect.
This is not a brake system: diesel high pressure lines are not bled in a specific order; all are bled at once. The VE-style IP pressurizes (with a single plunger in the IP) all six lines in firing order. Leave all injector-to-line nuts loose (about 1/4 to 1/2 turn loose) while cranking -- with the IP's Fuel Cut solenoid energized, which should be the normal condition when key is in ON or START positions, but you've done your own wiring, so I mention it for completeness.
If I manage to get fuel to the injectors should I worry about the fuel being dangerous? Might just be a stupid worry but Ive seen cases where the fuel coming out of the injecors has sliced people open because the high pressures. Im not sure that the LD28 makes enough pressure to scare me during cranking.
The LD28 injection pressure is a bit under 2000 PSI, which can do damage to you if you hold an injector against your skin and get the IP (or an injector tester) to squirt fuel. At that pressure, it will inject fuel into you, which can kill you or at least cause mass necropsy.

However, during bleeding, the miniscule amount of fuel effectively depressurizes at the injector line nut into more-or-less harmless. You could wrap your hand around the nut and it would only get wet.
. . . totally spaced on the water/fuel sensor that plugs the bottom. I see another thread about that part. I may have to order one but I dont actually need it as a sensor. Maybe if someone has a useless sensor that still seals we could make a trade or something.
How about using a 10mm x 1.5 bolt with a fibre washer under the head? You could round that up at most hardware stores. Using a bolt, you can use a washer, you don't need an o-ring.

The WIF Sensor (without o-ring) is only $13.
I went looking for a o-ring to replace the one on the fuel/water filter. I was standing in line at Kragen's and the guy behind me being into the whole bio diesel situation himself for many years caught my attention and said to run the green o-rings. They are intended for use with A/C systems.
I don't know that HNBR rings are BD compatible. Spending a minimum amount of time with Google, I find that Hydrogenated Acrylonitrile Butadiene (HNBR) is "Not recommended for ketones, esters and aromatic fluids." Biodiesel is an mono alkyd ester.

Better stick with Viton, Nylon, Polyethylene, Teflon, Stainless Steel, and the other known-compatible materials.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
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