LD28 into Land Rover 110

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windsock
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LD28 into Land Rover 110

#1

Post by windsock » 11 years ago

Hi all,

An introduction to myself and my truck.

I am Phil and the truck is a 1984 Land Rover 110.

I transplanted a good condition LD28 engine out of a 1985 Nissan Laurel C32 (168,000 kilometres) into a 1984 Land Rover 110 (164,000 kilometres). Did this late last year and have been covering loads of tracks and countryside since.

Started off with the basic truck in Nov 2007.

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Had the stock 2.25 litre petrol engine in, did 14 litres per 100 kilometres on the highway and up to 18-20 litres per 100 kilometres off road. :shock:

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By December 2007 it had this in it... I can now do 9 litres per 100 kilometres on road and up to 12-14 off road. :D Donor car cost $100 NZ (approx $61 US :lol: )

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Easy transplant with minimal requirements. Adapter plate was of cast aluminium and they used to be readily available in the late 80's. This one took a bit of tracking down and was found in the back of the shed of the old fellow that used to cast them. One of only two new ones he had left. I needed to shave about 3 mm off the input shaft and then press a spigot into the actual flywheel as the shaft would fit against the crank. No pictures of this stage of the transplant sorry as was too busy doing it to record it, regreting it now.

Should note here that the motor is hitched to a standard 110 Land Rover LT77 5 speed (ratios available if interested). Fifth gear is an overdrive at 0.87:1. I can still only go as fast as the petrol donk - 100 kilometres per hour (60mph for you old unit folk :) ) and it is still noisey, but workable. This 5 speed is still connected to the standard LT230R transfer box of high and low 4WD and the truck is a conventional full-time 4WD.

In New Zealand any engine transplant that changes the fuel system or engine size (I did both) needs official checking and certification. It flew through these tests and is officially registered now as a diesel truck.

The air intake needed fixing. From the shot above it can be seen directly above the radiator and was a bodged affair involving a cut and tuck of the donor intake with loads of electrical tape. After a scare with a river over the bonnet I decided I needed some height.

This evolved over after a bit of trial and error with 150mm exhaust tube and a mig.

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A bit of plumbing (Joe is not my name :roll: ) and I have a sump for catching the water, mud and debris I still manage to gather up. It is at the lowest part of the trucks intake and works well.

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I haven't dispensed with the tried and proven electrical tape though... still there till I find a bigger volume airbox to fit in there.

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well, thats my truck and I have enjoyed 'lurking' on this list and gleaned useful info over the last year or so and thought I'd indroduce myself.

Look forward to more info on this list and exchanging ideas instead of only gaining from others input.

Cheers,

Phil

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asavage
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#2

Post by asavage » 11 years ago

The OEM diesel air filter box flows plenty of air. No need to "upgrade" it, unless you like the looks of something else better. Now, if you add a turbocharger, you'll need an air filter with more surface area.p

I'm quite surprised that you can only manage 100 kph; the US-spec emisssion-controlled version of the LD28 pushes my 3300 lb (~1500 kgms) Maxima (Bluebird) Wagon to well over 145 KPH in stock trim.

Yes, you have significantly more wind to push with that boxy shape, and more weight, but I would have though that 130 KPH would be easy to achieve.

How is the engine fore/aft clearance? Did you go with an electric radiator fan?
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

windsock
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Location: zu ui umop

#3

Post by windsock » 11 years ago

Hi Al,

I think you are right about the airbox. I keep thinking the same but almost all I speak to over here about it suggest bigger. When I look at bigger airboxes that service bigger engines I notice there is not a lot of difference in volume. I am in no real rush to change. I have been looking at some of the bigger filters for the later diesel land rovers and feel they may be suitable should one become readily available at a reasonable price. They are cylindrical and provide a swirl space area for further trapping dust and debris. Dust is a real kicker for this current filtration I have. Nature of the truck sees me on more dusty tracks and roads than the donor car would have been exposed to.

As for road speed, donor car was well and truly a speed machine compared to the current mount. Gearing and indeed aerodynamics is where it is at. This truck is geared very differently from conventional road going vehicles and ratios are a compromise between to two enviroments driven in. Plus all the aerodynamics of a flying brick... :roll: Unladen weight of the truck is just shy of 2000 kg. Manufacturers give the basic truck a kerb weight of 1750kg. I have a manufactureers limited payload of 1250kg which makes for some very interesting back country trips with even 3/4 of that load. I don't notice any of the load on road however, an advantage of the gearing.

LT77 gearbox ratios are as follows:

Gear Ratio
1st 3.585
2nd 2.3008
3rd 1.5074
4th 1.00
5th 0.8314

These are then run through an LT230R transfer box:

High 1.667
Low 3.3198

And then through the standard diff ratio of 3.54:1 and finally all this through standard diameter tyres of 31 inch. Works great off-road where it really is a safety factor to be able to traverse difficult terrain and I use all those gears in low range in the rough and use up to third high range in semi-rough. I can get up-graded cogs for on-road speed but I am happy with the current situation.

One thread on here I have been pondering long is the various ideas about tachometers. When I pulled the motor from the donor car I neglected to get the loom associated with the tacho. Got a price on a TinyTach in NZ. $226 NZ (NZD1.00 = USD0.61 at current levels).

Will get photos of some of the clearances later in the day and post soon. I did have plenty of clearance hoever. There is approximately (by memory) 2 inches space between head and firewall, an estimated 4 inches between head cover and hood and a huge 10 inches between standard fan and radiator. I managed to find a pre-made fibreglass shroud for over the fan and have plans to augment the fan with electric at some stage this summer. Long slow hill climbing on road pushes the temp up quite a lot and as I have an estimated additive-induced boil point of 120 deg C I get nervous when I see the temp push past 85-90 deg C. I've had to alter a spare sump and will finish alterations soon. With full simultaneous articulation upwards of both front wheels the front diff 'pumpkin' knocks part of the winged sump. Only kicked in a small ding but enough to warrent full clearnace changes on the next sump. Will also add more oil vloume to aid oil reserves on long steep hill climbs. Am considering changing the oil pick-up further back but then on the return trips I face long steep descents - hence more oil in the pan will mean more oil on both these situations.

Cheers,

Phil

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asavage
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#4

Post by asavage » 11 years ago

I appreciate the detailed reply, Phil.

The swirl-inducing air filter cases do work very well for rigs in dusty conditions. They also require a lot of under-bonnet room!

I'm curious about your comment about the donor car's tacho loom -- did the vehicle have a factory tachometer?

Have you seen the thread about modifying the OEM Hitachi LR-series alternator and using a std diesel tacho?

Finally, if your LD28 had an EGR system from the factory, it will have a rev sensor on the IP adapter housing. One can modify the EGR Controller to provide a tach signal, and then you may use any tacho that was designed for a six cylinder gasser engine.

If you have the Rev sensor installed already, I have a spare EGR Controller and can provide you one modded already.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

windsock
Posts: 144
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: zu ui umop

#5

Post by windsock » 11 years ago

Hi Al,
asavage wrote:The swirl-inducing air filter cases do work very well for rigs in dusty conditions. They also require a lot of under-bonnet room!
Yes, aside from some of the land rover airboxes I am also looking at the Donaldson range of filters at the local truck accessory place. Pricey and don't like the idea of only one source for filters for miles around but good pieces of equipment none the less.
asavage wrote:I'm curious about your comment about the donor car's tacho loom -- did the vehicle have a factory tachometer?
Yes, I took the liberty of retrieving the whole dash face as a souvenier before I scapped the car...

Image
asavage wrote:Have you seen the thread about modifying the OEM Hitachi LR-series alternator and using a std diesel tacho?
Yes, I have. I have been meaning to send the diagrams off to a freind of mine to assess whether he can do the fitting.
Finally, if your LD28 had an EGR system from the factory, it will have a rev sensor on the IP adapter housing. One can modify the EGR Controller to provide a tach signal, and then you may use any tacho that was designed for a six cylinder gasser engine.
If you have the Rev sensor installed already, I have a spare EGR Controller and can provide you one modded already.
Thats a very cool offer. I do have an EGR sensor and have the wires tucked away safely so as not to be damaged. Until reading the thread sometime ago I didn't have a clue what they were for. By memory, they were disconnected from the car loom when I lifted the motor. What sort of money are you wanting for the modded controller and what is it actually look like, i.e. how much room will I need for installation of it. No end of room but figure it'll need a sealed box to sit in.

Cheers,

Phil

PS took some more photos of clearances, motor mounts and such like. Just waiting for the pictures to downoad, resize and upload to photobucket before appending to previous post.
Good roads lead to bad fishing.

windsock
Posts: 144
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Location: zu ui umop

#6

Post by windsock » 11 years ago

Hi Al,

Some more query specific photos
asavage wrote: How is the engine fore/aft clearance? Did you go with an electric radiator fan?
There is about 10 inches between the fan-belt axis and the front of the radiator. in the shot below you can see the fan belts and the 300mm mark is at the centre of the radiator. There is quite a bit of room either side of the radiator to augment the viscous fan with an electrically (or hydraulically) driven one.

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There is about 2 inches (50mm) between the tappet cover and the firewall.

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The adapter plate was about 60mm wide. Cast aluminium. I remember when these things were getting cast back in the mid-late 80's, the engineer doing them used to buy scrap aluminium off us at NZD1.20/kg. We used to go foraging in all the back-road (illegal) dump sites and retrieve old gearboxes and stuff like that for the metals. I kinda like to think maybe some of my ally is in this one perhaps... :lol:

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The stock LD28 PAS pump is plumbed into a later model Range Rover 4-bolt steering box. This just required getting the right pressure rated fittings for the box to fit onto the LD hoses. When I got this truck it had "Armstrong" steering, i.e. no PAS. I fitted the later-model box (it bolted straight in - 4 x capscrews) and have loved every turn of it since 8)

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Engine mounts were so easy for the LD to Land Rover swap it is almost laughable. 6mm flat bar and an hour each side and I could bolt the standard Land Rover engine mount rubbers to the LD block. Note, these had to pass NZ LVVTA (Low Vehicle Volume Technical Assoc - http://www.lvvta.org.nz/) certification checks. Note, Because of the offset of the diffs/gearboxes on this truck (they are on the drivers side of centre), the engine is offset towards passengers side (manifold side).

Drivers side (IP side)

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Passengers side (Manifold side). Note, there is a small bend needed on this side to align it all.

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Had to cut the stock manifold exhaust tube off the mount and rotate 180 degrees and reweld so the exhaust tube would clear the clutch slave. The flow of the exhaust gas is actually forwards for a few centimetres then down and clear through straight onto the standrad land rover 2 inch system.

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Last shot. The oil sump pan is a forward bowl winged variety and as previously noted, on full upward articulation, the diff "pumpkin" just grazes the wingtip. Have altered a second sump to clear and will extend the volume further of the new sump to allow appox 1-2 more litres of oil. Currently 5 litres 15W-40 per fill.

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Hope that indicates yet another application of these good little engines.

Cheers,

Phil
Good roads lead to bad fishing.

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asavage
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#7

Post by asavage » 11 years ago

Really good job of showing the bits, and the text explanations make it all clear. A great contribution :)

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exmod110
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#8

Post by exmod110 » 11 years ago

I just removed the same conversion from my 85 110 for a 300tdi... On most days 100kph was easy on the flat and usualy would cruise at 110... but with a head wind or up slight hills the ld would slow up some, to as low as 90kph. So you should be able to sit at 100-110 most of the time, make sure the throttle is getting full travel, the stopper on the peddle can be adjusted to get the pump to to w.o.t stopper. Also if you do not see a slight bit of smoke out the tail pipe on hard accel turn the pump up, it will make a differance.

Don
85 Landrover 110 300tdi
02 Mazda protege5

windsock
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#9

Post by windsock » 11 years ago

exmod110 wrote:I just removed the same conversion from my 85 110 for a 300tdi... On most days 100kph was easy on the flat and usualy would cruise at 110... but with a head wind or up slight hills the ld would slow up some, to as low as 90kph. So you should be able to sit at 100-110 most of the time, make sure the throttle is getting full travel, the stopper on the peddle can be adjusted to get the pump to to w.o.t stopper. Also if you do not see a slight bit of smoke out the tail pipe on hard accel turn the pump up, it will make a differance.

Don
Hey Don,

Thanks for the post.

I too looked around for a 300tdi when looking for a swap. Settled on the LD cause they're cheap, plentiful, and no need for many other changes than what I have outlined above.

A good 300tdi here in NZ was north of NZD3000 but european or australian sourced 300's were less common than the japanese 300's with all their electronic controls etc. Wanted to get away from all that stuff and back to a basic machine - something achieved sucessfully with the LD28.

In reality, if I could afford to buy the new south american made 2.8 engine made for Land Rover I would but at NZD8500 that was out of the question. LD28s here you can find good ones for NZD500 max - my current driving one cost NZD100 in the donor car, the spare I got simply for the flywheel was NZD200, and the spare runner I got for NZD400.

As for the speed issue, I have no problems getting to 100kph on any normal day. See the thread about water in the fuel as I am lucky to go 80kph at the moment. It'll get fixed and I'll go back to my normal speed of 100kph. 100kph incidently is the open road limit in NZ.

Cheers,

Phil
Good roads lead to bad fishing.

davehoos
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#10

Post by davehoos » 11 years ago

very interesting to read through.i planned to fit a LD20T to a lightwieght---one day.i wanted to imoprt a 4cyl 90 into aust when i worked in the factory but got stopped at most turns---i tryed to buy 48 vehicles for an organisation and was told that the company wasnt in the busness of selling cars that people wanted.

I worked for landrover in the factory in sydney 1988-90 building 4BD1 isuzu 4x4-6x6 version.
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australian army version has the fuel tank under the front seats.
steel zinc plated filler neck comes in behind the seat and out into the wheel arch.rubber hose then loops back over the chasis outrigger into the top of the tank.a simple hoop/anti drain breather with a sock is attached to the bulkhead and no filter inside the tank.

the rear of the chasis that has the fuel tank on petrol or imported version is cut off and a spare tyre hangs on a winch.the chasis is hot dipped gal.
cab chasis 3.9 are cut in half and streached before assembley.

nylon hose is used and i found the sediment bowl mounted low easy to drain with a full fuel tank.the pipes for army use are conected in reverse-this is much better with poor quality fuel.

for australia the last thing you want is a euro landi engine of any type.customer today to have the a/c checked with a td5 having had a $7000 cyl head repair.south africans had a good idea-they use a BMW petrol 6 efi engine.my travels in NZ would prob have 80-90Km in mind but need to get up to 110 quickly to overtake slow traffic driving on the shoulder.

i was told at work by engineers that the 3.9 110 was capable of 98KM/h,I then asked why did the loaded up version towing a trailer pass me doing 120 on the freeway.the 3.9turbo was not released to the public as the top speed exceeded its braking ablity.
the turbo version released had very low ratio diffs to speed limit by default.the 3.9D,V8 and range rover use a 3.5:1 diff,the 6x6 use a 4.9:1.
i think there is a 5.3:1.
old ser3 aust 4cy use a 4.1:1 this would give 3000 RPM at 100-120Km with 5 speed.the isuzu had a 4200 red line.
WCJR31 Skyline.3.0 manual.wagon
R31 SKYLINE/Passage GT/PINTARA
LPG Ford Falcon 99-06 93 Disco
Local Shire Southern Zone Mechanic.

windsock
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#11

Post by windsock » 11 years ago

Hi Davehoos
davehoos wrote:i planned to fit a LD20T to a lightwieght---one day.
Wow, yes, this would be one beaut little truck. Lightweights are a great concept in the rough. Would love to have the resources to play with one of these myself.
davehoos wrote:I worked for landrover in the factory in sydney 1988-90 building 4BD1 isuzu 4x4-6x6 version.
Yep, the Isuzu power packs were a great system. Very occasionally we see an Aust import 4BD1 appear for sale in NZ and they are keenly bid for by those in the know.
davehoos wrote:the pipes for army use are conected in reverse-this is much better with poor quality fuel.
Don't quite follow this though...reverse connections?
davehoos wrote:my travels in NZ would prob have 80-90Km in mind but need to get up to 110 quickly to overtake slow traffic driving on the shoulder.
Yes, this is my truck alright. Can sit on 90kph real comfy with good economy, can sit on 100kph and not hold anyone up but I kinda need a long stretch of clear road for overtaking.

Look forward to one day seeing a Lightweight LD20T thread on this forum :)

Cheers,

Phil
Good roads lead to bad fishing.

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asavage
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#12

Post by asavage » 11 years ago

I somehow missed reading this one.
windsock wrote:I am also looking at the Donaldson range of filters at the local truck accessory place. Pricey and don't like the idea of only one source for filters for miles around but good pieces of equipment none the less.
Donaldson is the standard over here, for medium- and heavy-duty equipment air filtration.
I took the liberty of retrieving the whole dash face as a souvenier before I scapped the car...
Hmmm. I am very curious how Nissan drives that tacho.
Thats a very cool offer. I do have an EGR sensor and have the wires tucked away safely so as not to be damaged. Until reading the thread sometime ago I didn't have a clue what they were for. By memory, they were disconnected from the car loom when I lifted the motor. What sort of money are you wanting for the modded controller and what is it actually look like, i.e. how much room will I need for installation of it.
Image

At a guess, the box is about 120mm x 120mm x 30mm.
No end of room but figure it'll need a sealed box to sit in.


If you're seeing water above the bonnet, then yes.

I get $30 to perform the Mod, and if you have no box to mod, a further $30 for the spare box from my inventory.

I just heard that Chris, the originator of the mod, may be selling one ore more of these for only $30 out the door. You might try contacting him (see the thread linked above, Chris is the one who did the research), and see if he is still doing that.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.

windsock
Posts: 144
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: zu ui umop

#13

Post by windsock » 11 years ago

Hi Al,
asavage wrote:
windsock wrote:I am also looking at the Donaldson range of filters at the local truck accessory place. [snip] .
Donaldson is the standard over here, for medium- and heavy-duty equipment air filtration.
Yes, they are quite prominent here in NZ too as an aftermarket option on a lot of the big rigs around the place. There is enough users here to warrent a few outlets around the countryside. Trouble is, if I install one, the outlets aren't as common as say the large number of FLAPS around the place. I guess there is nothing stopping me buying two or three filters at a time and carrying spares. Swirl box would lengthen the time between swap outs for the filters too so I gain there.
asavage wrote:
windsock wrote:I took the liberty of retrieving the whole dash face as a souvenier before I scapped the car...
asavage wrote:Hmmm. I am very curious how Nissan drives that tacho.

Can I take photos of the back face (curcuitry) to satisfy that curiousity? Don't know that it'll show you anything. There is a plug entry that the signal is sent to so I figure it (the signal) ooriginated elsewhere and that will have been scapped with the car... :roll:
asavage wrote:
windsock wrote:Thats a very cool offer. I do have an EGR sensor and have the wires tucked away safely so as not to be damaged. Until reading the thread sometime ago I didn't have a clue what they were for. By memory, they were disconnected from the car loom when I lifted the motor. What sort of money are you wanting for the modded controller and what is it actually look like, i.e. how much room will I need for installation of it.
Image

At a guess, the box is about 120mm x 120mm x 30mm.
windsock wrote:No end of room but figure it'll need a sealed box to sit in.


If you're seeing water above the bonnet, then yes.

I get $30 to perform the Mod, and if you have no box to mod, a further $30 for the spare box from my inventory.

I just heard that Chris, the originator of the mod, may be selling one ore more of these for only $30 out the door. You might try contacting him (see the thread linked above, Chris is the one who did the research), and see if he is still doing that.
I read the thread about folk wanting a modded signal without the EGR box. I volunteered myself onto that list. I've no need for an EGR other than to send the tach signal so might as well hold onto the EGR for use there in the US where they appear to be sought after.

I would be keen on a signal module made to run without the EGR. Measured the ohm output of my sensor and got 1372 ohms so seems operative there.

Cheers,

Phil
Good roads lead to bad fishing.

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asavage
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#14

Post by asavage » 11 years ago

If you read the thread, you will see that you can use the Mod'd EGR Controller and only four wires (none to any EGR equipment, only to the Rev Sensor). The only thing you gain by building a dedicated tach driver is space (I assume a dedicated driver board would be about half or one-third the size of the OEM EGR Controller).

windsock
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#15

Post by windsock » 11 years ago

Hi Al,
asavage wrote:If you read the thread, you will see that you can use the Mod'd EGR Controller and only four wires (none to any EGR equipment, only to the Rev Sensor). The only thing you gain by building a dedicated tach driver is space (I assume a dedicated driver board would be about half or one-third the size of the OEM EGR Controller).
Yep, read it a few times. My problem is I don't already have an EGR wired and the only wires I have on the motor are what is required to run it as a basic machine so I don't have the required wires to plug into this.

Image

My sensor wires are smiply hanging off the IP adapter plate, so ideally any mod'ed EGR I bought would need the plug with the wires required that I join the sensor into. If that makes any sense.

Hence my query about any board that didn't need the EGR circuitry and simply just provided an inferface for the Tacho.

Cheers,

Phil
Good roads lead to bad fishing.

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