Starter Motor

Discuss (and cuss) the Nissan LD-series OHC Six diesel engine, popularly available in the US in 1981-83 Datsun/Nissan Maxima Sedans & Wagons.

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Dr. Jones
Posts: 125
Joined: 15 years ago
Location: Raleigh NC

Starter Motor

#1

Post by Dr. Jones »

On page EL-16 in the FSM there is an exploded view of the starter. My question lies with the magnetic switch assembly. Does any one know how this fits together? Specifically the torison spring and the shift lever does the spring go over top or under? I took it apart because my M terminal(the one that actually goes to the starter motor) broke loose from its casting and the nut ended up breaking off. I'll post some pictures a little later. Thanks in advance, Joe.
'82 Maxima Sedan x2
'92 Saab 9000 Griffin Edition Wrecked
'80 Ford E100(twisted tranny) SCRAPPED
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asavage
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#2

Post by asavage »

Thanks for providing the FSM page. For those without a FSM, "magnetic switch assembly" (MSA) = solenoid, the part that both moves the bendix toward the flywheel, and also switches on the current to the starter motor.

I've not had any of mine apart, but (using the FSM nomenclature) if the MSA's plunger (one of the items marked "G" just to the left of the MSA) has a slot in its end large enough for the Shift Lever to fit through (and that's what I'm guessing), then I don't see how you could put the Torsion Spring under the lever; it would pretty much have to sit over the tang of the plunger and the top of the Shift Lever, based on other starters I've worked with.

That's pretty much an anti-rattle spring. Oh, and if it's not obvious, the closed end of the spring (that looks like a squared-'C') should press against the rightmost (or inside) edge of the Shift Lever, from what I can see. You should see a wear mark where it's been sitting against the top/right of the Shift Lever.

HTH, and do post back on any findings to the contrary. I love this stuff.

(Now post some pics, so I can see how wrong I am! Alcohol impairs my powers of ESP :? )
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
Dr. Jones
Posts: 125
Joined: 15 years ago
Location: Raleigh NC

#3

Post by Dr. Jones »

Here's some color images of your starter (not really yours). Enjoy!
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How long do you think I have? The pin is a cotter pin do you think I'll have any weird metal reactions over time?

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That's .517' (little over FSM spec.) while I have it apart I should go ahead and change these brushes, right? Does anyone know where to get them?

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It's not the best picture but I'll have to file these top two down, is this a symptom of some thing else?

Image
The over's take it.
'82 Maxima Sedan x2
'92 Saab 9000 Griffin Edition Wrecked
'80 Ford E100(twisted tranny) SCRAPPED
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asavage
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#4

Post by asavage »

NAPA's got the brushes (two different part Nos. though), and they also list the solenoid separately, though it's well over $50. There's one on eBay for the smaller SD25 starter, it looks very much the same as yours, for "Buy it Now" of $35.

What is that on the bad terminal, a cotter pin?

I'll post links and pics later tonight.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
Dr. Jones
Posts: 125
Joined: 15 years ago
Location: Raleigh NC

#5

Post by Dr. Jones »

Yeah, I drilled a hole through the terminal and hammered a cotter pin through there and bent it around the loop connector. Now I'll have to see how long it will last, you wanna place a bet?
'82 Maxima Sedan x2
'92 Saab 9000 Griffin Edition Wrecked
'80 Ford E100(twisted tranny) SCRAPPED
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asavage
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#6

Post by asavage »

Image

That's NAPA (Echlin) ECH ST306. List is about $93. Retail is $64, and cost (for jobbers) is $47.

I've been contemplating buying up this whole starter for $73 shipped. I don't really need it, it just looks like a good item to salt away. But I won't bid against anyone who needs it.

Brushes from NAPA are ECH E523
Image

or possibly ECH E703
Image

Both part Nos. claim they are a set of four brushes.
I drilled a hole through the terminal and hammered a cotter pin through there and bent it around the loop connector. Now I'll have to see how long it will last, you wanna place a bet?
Hmmm. That's final form, eh?
If you're that hard up for money, I'm willing send you a used solenoid for cheap. I found that I have a clean spare starter in storage, looks in decent shape on the outside. I don't think that solenoid will take well to being disasembled, so I guess replacing the bolt/contact is out, but I think I'd look at maybe facing, then center drilling the remains of the bolt and using a machine screw and washer assortment to get some clamping force on the terminal. I'm afraid of the voltage drop you'll have with the cotter pin arrangement.

=======

What's the ETA on taking those IP timing readings?
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
Dr. Jones
Posts: 125
Joined: 15 years ago
Location: Raleigh NC

#7

Post by Dr. Jones »

I totally forgot about the IP timing I'll probably get my intake back on later this week along with rebuilding that starter and I'll shoot hopefully early next week but probably later.
'82 Maxima Sedan x2
'92 Saab 9000 Griffin Edition Wrecked
'80 Ford E100(twisted tranny) SCRAPPED
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asavage
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#8

Post by asavage »

No rush, but I do like to keep loaner tools on a short leash -- I've lost track of I don't know how many tools I've loaned out over the years, not counting the ones I've had stolen.

Take as much time as you need -- but expect me to ask about it every couple of weeks ;)
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
Dr. Jones
Posts: 125
Joined: 15 years ago
Location: Raleigh NC

#9

Post by Dr. Jones »

I appreciate it, if I forget it I'll run it up to you when I'm on that side of the country.
'82 Maxima Sedan x2
'92 Saab 9000 Griffin Edition Wrecked
'80 Ford E100(twisted tranny) SCRAPPED
SoCalanz
Posts: 37
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Los Angeles, CA

starter motor

#10

Post by SoCalanz »

Can somebody post a photo of the starter for the Maxima wagon (or sedan if the same). My wagon is a 1983 and the starter cranks but does not seem to engage the flywheel. I removed the starter which appears to be a gear reduction starter, had it tested and it works fine. I have no history on this car I just bought so is it possible the prior owner installed the incorrect starter?

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Trying to catch some Zs? Keep on dreaming.

1983 Maxima Diesel Wagon
1992 Suburu SVX, Lsi, AWD
1995 Suburu SVX L, AWD
1972 Datsun 240z, highly modified
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asavage
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Re: starter motor

#11

Post by asavage »

SoCalanz wrote:Can somebody post a photo of the starter for the Maxima wagon (or sedan if the same).
They are the same on both the Sedan and Wagon.

The gasser starter will bolt on and work -- sort-of -- but is smaller physically and does not really have enough oomph to do a decent job. My '83 Wagon had a gasser starter installed when I bought it. Big difference in starting after I changed it out. The gasser and diesel starters look almost identical.

Pics of an LD28 starter & L24 starter side-by-side is in this post

Pics of a couple of LD28 starters (and a lot of their parts) is in the LD28 Hitachi Starter Solenoid thread.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
SoCalanz
Posts: 37
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Los Angeles, CA

starter motor

#12

Post by SoCalanz »

Thanks Al. That is exactly what mine looks like. However, I have to figure out why it is not engaging the flywheel. Took it to auto parts store and it wooked perfectly. Got a head scratcher here!
Trying to catch some Zs? Keep on dreaming.

1983 Maxima Diesel Wagon
1992 Suburu SVX, Lsi, AWD
1995 Suburu SVX L, AWD
1972 Datsun 240z, highly modified
User avatar
asavage
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Posts: 5370
Joined: 15 years ago
Location: Duvall, Wash.
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#13

Post by asavage »

The solenoid fails pretty regularly on these, but the only failure mode I've noted (four solenoid failures) is failure of the switch, not failure to pull in.

[Though I haven't seen it happen on an LD28, I had an AT (BW Type 35) flex plate in a 1971 Datsun 510 Wagon have the ring gear (the gear on the engine, sorta) break its welds and hang free. The starter would make horrible noise when you turned the key, because it would catch a few teeth and set this ring gear spinning, which would knock about inside the bellhousing.

I'd never seen that one before. Took off the flex plate and ring gear and had them welded back to one another. Worked fine for many more years.]

If the starter motor runs but the starter does not turn the engine, it's possible that the starter drive (this picture of one is from upthread) . . .
Image
. . . has failed. I had my first one fail on my '82 Wagon in 1998. Every once in a while, it would not engage. That is, the teeth would engage the flywheel but there is a one-way clutch inside it and it would not transmit power. I bought a Nissan rebuilt starter instead of replacing the drive: about $175 from Bellingham Nissan (1998 price).

This is not a failure mode that can be easily checked, other than by replacing the drive (or the whole starter). On the bench, the gear spins, but under load it doesn't. See what I mean? Hard to check. The parts store test does not test the starter drive, only the motor and solenoid. A real electrical rebuild shop may have a torque tester, but those shops are getting rarer all the time.

I have LD28 starters, used but with new solenoids, should you be unable to get yours working to your satisfaction. Unfortunately, they are not inexpensive, partly due to my cost for the new solenoid. But it's a fallback solution.
Regards,
Al S.

1982 Maxima diesel wagon, 2nd & 4th owner, 165k miles, rusty & burgundy/grey. Purchased 1996, SOLD 16Feb10
1983 Maxima diesel wagon, 199k miles, rusty, light yellow/light brown. SOLD 14Jul07
1981 720 SD22 (scrapped 04Sep07)
1983 Sentra CD17, 255k, bought 06Jul08, gave it away 22Jun10.
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kassim503
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Joined: 15 years ago
Location: Stony Brook, NY

Re: starter motor

#14

Post by kassim503 »

SoCalanz wrote:Thanks Al. That is exactly what mine looks like. However, I have to figure out why it is not engaging the flywheel. Took it to auto parts store and it wooked perfectly. Got a head scratcher here!
If you are positive you have a good soleniod, check the flywheel. I have a missing/damaged tooth somewhere on there, results in some grinding when you least expect it.
'83 maxima sedan, l24e, a/t, black

227K SOLD 6/7/2012
rlaggren
Posts: 541
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: San Francisco

#15

Post by rlaggren »

Don't know if you've already eleminated the electrical stuff, but JIC:

Can the starter get all the amps it needs to run right? Ie., are the heavy wires and connections (assuming the battery is fine) good? Running on the bench doesnt' draw much (relatively) and they presumeably have a good supply anyway. The current has to go through the solenoid so if there's a degraded contact or connection in there is could ham string the starter but still look good free wheeling on the bench. You could try hooking up a volt meter w/long leads to the starter terminals and put the instrument on the dash while cranking to see what volts the starter is actually getting. But you'll have to wait on more knowledgeable types to find what volts this starter should run at - 9volts maybe?.

Depending on you preferred methods, you might consider pulling a gasser (more easily available) starter from a JY if it's cheap enough ($15?) and trying that to compare results and maybe get some short term joy in your life. But if it's not getting the power... Nothing works.

And didn't you say a battery had made a mess in the engine compartment? So maybe some of those big fat wires are only illusions.

Best luck.
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